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BRNO 2012: Predict, Prac, Qual

Wrong. His position has less meaning but his time from the front is definitely relevant.



Anyway, that time has blown out now.



As per usual qualifying times don't mean .... till QP is over. The gap between Lorenzo to Rossi might as well be the length of a football field. If he can't do his best lap times consistently throughout the race - he'll be right where he's been last two seasons. Tomorrow with so many riders gone he'll do a bit better. Meh.
 
spain has a lot of good riders, and the national 125, moto2 championships. in other countries teenagers race production bikes. its normal to have more spanish riders in gp. for example look how many brits race in wsbk, due to bsb.

i will agree for bradley smith, but cal deserves his seat

nicky has a ...... bike cause he is not fast enough to ride a factory honda or yamaha

valentino took the bike dovi wanted, but if any of us was jarvis he would prefer vale instead of dovi, or anyone. i m sure jarvis knows what he s doing

then, de puniet????? you talk about token brits or americans, then what is rdp? isnt he token french? he is good only for showing new imaginative ways of how to crash a bike

as for casey, its his own decision, everyone wanted him to stay. there are a lot of people like you that dont like rossi for some reason, and they are fans of stoner most of them. they too watch tv, buy caps tshirts and tickets, dorna doesnt want them to stop you know.



Spanish def got the programs, but thats where my agreement ends with ur post friend. Even with the conveyor belt of Spanish riders, they still need massive help in the GP series to fool peeps into thinking they are better than they are in reality. All of them on top 1-2 package-teams, in every category. Then ur impressed they are 1-2 in results? I bet u also think positions 1-8 in MotoGP are impressive. Where would u expect the top 4 factory bikes to finish? What about Sat bikes 4-6? Where should they finish to impress u? Oh wait, they regularly finish in exactly the order they do in terms of parity.



Dovi, has a string of podiums, was signed with Yamaha. He did what he had to do and what would be expected to earn promotion. But Yamaha were coerced or something into signing VR. Nothing about his signing passes the smell test (see Ezys now infamous slip comment). If the league wasnt so desperate to appease the bulk of its "fans" that signing would not have happened. Which brings me to ur next lame point (sorry, had to go harsh on u for talking .... about Nicky, haha). U must have not been paying attention to what happened to the "goat" in 2011-12. The "greatest of all time" was regularly matched or beaten by Nicky. Fact. What does that tell u about parity in GP? Probably nothing, to u, as u obviously didnt pick up the lesson (sorry, still going postal buddy). Nicky was given .... equipment (in terms of the tools needed to compete at the top 5 level) after 06 at HRC. Then when he started to make progress at Duc, they signed VR and results went to .... again. But u have to judge what he did against VR (and even that is a reach, as development obviously revolved around VR--fact). So how do u explain VR regularly coming last among the factories? Because according to ur sterling logic (sarcasm for effect buddy), its results on a "factory" bike that u judge Nickys career on. U can skip my entire post, but i'd be interested to hear ur explanation just on this point.



Depuniet. Token Frenchy? Certainly not. Overlooked, certainly yes. He deserved that shifting Tech 3 seat. At very least, Alvaros Gresini. It took him no more than a couple hours of riding to match Alvaros best times in his one-off test on Suzuki. (See Valencia test) While peeps with the stellar insight as urs were praising Alvaros results on Rizla Suz, the 5 defs and torpedoes were being overlooked.



Stoner is leaving because he knows the series politic is ......... Undoubtedly, for many of the reasons ive just mentioned. Much of the ........ revolves around the favoritism toward VR (which has gone into hyperdrive, though some of us could discern it in years past ) . Pointing it out is often dismissed by peeps like u simply saying its disliking VR. Ok, now what? So does that change the reality of the series and its stacked results?



Its irrelevant how i feel about VR, honestly Bill. I dont like Pedro much either, but that still doesnt change the reality of the series, does it? (Let me put into perspective tho, Pedro is 20x the hero in my book relative to any other sport interest i have, that gies for VR. I'd line up like a goof ball to get his, or VRs, or the least of thems autograph). The question of VR doesnt bother me half as much as the bulk of his fans who who get pimped. As a matter io fact, i marvel at his ability to pimp and make his fans, media, series, his ........ Nothing hes ever got has been required. So i cant and never have blamed him fir the favoritism! He should take what hes given, as that is pimp. Its been handed to him, by ....... and by those self serving interests that are tied to his success. Its the sheep that buy into the legitimacy that bother me. U can claim i dislike him all u want to make u feel better, and i dont like him for my own reasons, particularly his character (of the limited one i see on TV, which isnt much). But that has no baring on this discussion. I suppose its a coping mechanism for his fans. But i'll repeat, its the fans that buy into the legitimacy of VRs results without accepting what his careerwould have looked on a 2-3rd tier bike. Still people today count him as an "alien". Why? Has he won a race since Valencia 2011? Isnt he on a "factory" bike Bill? I fully expect him to win a few next year. Then u and 90% of the sport will proclaim, the "goat" is back. Btw, i wouldnt expect any diff if Lorenzo or Pedro where riding the GP12.
 
man, first of all i have to say i am a fan of valentino and most italian riders in general.

most people think that every fan of valentino is the sheep you re talking about, and all the rest are true fans of the sport knowing everything etc. and that is not so true imo, and not so nice to say also



now, this is a sport, watched by millions, its a business, there are a lot of money involved, you dont expect that everyone will get the same fair treatment, do you?

if the top teams everywhere are spanish, its normal for them to prefer spanish riders. obviously there is a greater interest, a bigger audience in spain than elsewhere. if you want more english or italian or french that is not spain's problem.



still, the best riders will always come out on top, sooner or later, spanish or not

an example is casey



dovi, he has been fast with the tech3 bike. but, he has also shown what he can do on a factory bike. one victory, in the wet, with stoner-rossi-lorenzo out. and nothing impressive in general, like poles or fastest laps. mostly 3rd and 4th place finishes, more or less. i loved dovi in 250s, i thought he was as fast as lorenzo, but i cant say the same now.

valentino won a lot with yamaha, that counts too. also, bringing valentino back to yamaha, and let him finish his carreer there, is good for the future of the brand in terms of marketing, sales etc

plus, its like a guarantee for 1-2 finishes, riders and constructor championships, cause valentino has not forgotten how to ride a bike, i guess

yamaha has more to gain signing valentino, than dovi.

if you were lin jarvis, i think you would do the same thing

about nicky, its the same, yamaha (or honda) has no reason to sign nicky. you cant say he is a lot faster than rossi, and definetely not as popular as rossi. i didnt say anything bad about him, i like him a lot, but its normal not to be the first choice for these bikes. he is doing well on the duc, but not enough to think he would deserve a factory honda or yamaha more than those guys who get them.



randy, i didnt say he isnt fast, i said he crashes a lot. he has a reputation you know. not many teams would be willing to sign him especially satellite teams that dont want extra costs of crashes. he had his chance, he was a sattelite rider for many years already



stoner has the skills, has the speed, still quits racing to go live a quiet life.... thats his choice, we cant say anything, but, if he stayed he could become one of the most successful riders ever, actually he already is, but quits at 26 years....... for me, he should be more relaxed, he just shouldnt care so much, about what anyone says, just keep doing what he loves, and all these guys love to race. its a pity, really, i think he will miss racing



as for valentino again, he does whatever he can, to be able to win. but isnt that also normal, for any rider? if he can do whatever you say he can do, why shouldnt he? what would you do in his place?

2nd-3rd tier bike.. you can see how his career would be in a bike like that this year and the previous. but it doesnt matter, cause he wasnt. today he is not an alien, he is in 7th somewhere.

greatest of all time, of course not, you simply cant compare, greatest of the 990 you can say though.

if he wins again, wouldnt you also say, he is "back" ? actually, he would be, no matter what we say.

valentino has been there a long time. you cant forget what he has done because of two bad seasons.

the next generation is always better than the previous, in my opinion of course. stoner, lorenzo, are the best right now. rossi is not as fast as them.. i assume after some time there will be someone faster than lorenzo too

for next year, i think he can challenge for the podium. you cant expect a rider to win all his career, you cant demand rossi to be able to win against lorenzo. he is not as fast anymore
 
if he starts winning though, it will be a surprise for sure, but it will show why he won in 2008 and 2009. stoner and lorenzo were faster, but valentino was better at taking the result. stoner and lorenzo were faster, still couldnt pass valentino many times. when it comes to racing sometimes its not only about speed
 
Fair enuf Billy. I think we are closer in opinion that it may appear. Im just right and ur wrong. Just kidding. Nah seriously, good unemotional post. I think we prob just disagree on magnitude maybe? Perspective? Btw, ur right about VR fans, lots of good ones. I suppose its not right to lump them all together. I actually have grown to see him a bit diff these last two years. But i still stand behind my pimp comment. Hes a pimps and punks the series, and most accept it. Hey, more power to him. Im just not buying it. From my perspective, when i see 'my guy' match him, it pisses me off that his equal in talent get 100x the benefit. And also, that thing about results. Again, bothers me that peeps see results without the scrituny. Anyway, its all good.



Goat, im ignoring u.
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Jum, you have now repeated your latest conspiracy theory enough times to owe everybody an explanation on how Ezpeleta might have been able to "coerce" Yamaha into signing Rossi, something that they (according to you) didn't want to do.



We know that Lin Jarvis didn't want Rossi back; and Lorenzo neither. I can understand their motives. But Lin and Jorge were not coerced by Ezpeleta; they had to obey their own bosses because the decision came straight from the top management in Iwata, Japan,



So how did Carmelo "coerce" these top guys that he probably has never met? Did he threaten them through the Spanish mafia, bribe them, or perhaps blackmail them?

What can Dorna give them? More sales? Sponsors? More umbrella .....?



I wonder.
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Jums, you may be interested to know that current rumours have Spies at Gresini on factory HRC gear.



Has been suggested and reported in a few places



Stay tuned you may get a wish of Spies remaining (as it is also said that Haslam has been offered the BMW contract in WSBK)
 
Jum, you have now repeated your latest conspiracy theory enough times to owe everybody an explanation on how Ezpeleta might have been able to "coerce" Yamaha into signing Rossi, something that they (according to you) didn't want to do.



We know that Lin Jarvis didn't want Rossi back; and Lorenzo neither. I can understand their motives. But Lin and Jorge were not coerced by Ezpeleta; they had to obey their own bosses because the decision came straight from the top management in Iwata, Japan,



So how did Carmelo "coerce" these top guys that he probably has never met? Did he threaten them through the Spanish mafia, bribe them, or perhaps blackmail them?

What can Dorna give them? More sales? Sponsors? More umbrella .....?



I wonder.
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He offered Yamaha to be part of MotoVR. How could they refuse$$$$$$. Read Capirossi's interview again. We need VR at the front, the fate of the series, of Italy, of the entire world depends on VR at the front, proving he is the real deal GOAT of all GOATS.



Just having a bit of a laugh about it but in all seriousness in my mind the series depends on ALL the riders on the grid being as competitive as possible.



If it means dropping the fuel and engine limits which created unobtainium as you put it then that should be the absolute top priority of Ezpeleta. But its not, Rossi is his top priority and he traded all his cards to get it for the same reason Yamaha bosses agreed. They speak the same language MotoVR $$$$$$$. All it does is create more unobtainium in that other equally talented but less popular riders will never get a competitive bike because they will never generate the $$$$$$$ Ezpeleta demands.



Whos the king of WSBK? Nobody, as it should be, just bike racing.
 
He offered Yamaha to be part of MotoVR. How could they refuse$$$$$$. Read Capirossi's interview again. We need VR at the front, the fate of the series, of Italy, of the entire world depends on VR at the front, proving he is the real deal GOAT of all GOATS.



Just having a bit of a laugh about it but in all seriousness in my mind the series depends on ALL the riders on the grid being as competitive as possible.



If it means dropping the fuel and engine limits which created unobtainium as you put it then that should be the absolute top priority of Ezpeleta. But its not, Rossi is his top priority and he traded all his cards to get it for the same reason Yamaha bosses agreed. They speak the same language MotoVR $$$$$$$. All it does is create more unobtainium in that other equally talented but less popular riders will never get a competitive bike because they will never generate the $$$$$$$ Ezpeleta demands.



Whos the king of WSBK? Nobody, as it should be, just bike racing.
Is that why he made the switch to 1000s, CRTs, and is finalizing the rules that are going to bring Suzuki back and keep Ducati in, and possibly attract Aprillia and BMW into GP, not to mention reducing the cost of sat bikes and the price for brakes and suspension components. No doubt about it he does care about Rossi sticking around, but there are other much more important things happening for the future of the sport right now that he's been working for a couple of years. Some don't like the changes because CS doesn't like them, the facts are europe and most of the world is hurting for money, the grid is growing and records are being broken. Some have even been foaming at the mouth of the prospect of GP riders going to WSBK, but non of that has happened, apparently it's only CS and a few haters that aren't happy and can only be negative while ignoring everything that's really going on.
 
Btw, ur right about VR fans, lots of good ones. I suppose its not right to lump them all together. I actually have grown to see him a bit diff these last two years.

its normal, cause all fans can do nothing but accept that stoner was fast in the bike valentino is slow. i dont think any fan of valentino doesnt admit that stoner is a great rider. if they dont, they dont understand that admitting that also makes rossi look even better

in any case, i am not a fan of rossi because he was the fastest man, so i dont really care if he s not anymore.

my personal feeling is that stoner suits his style around the bike, while most riders try to suit the bike around them. i was not surprised when he was fastest first time on the honda. a unique element of his riding is that he can set the lap record on his second time round, while others need 45 minutes to even get a bit close

still, this is not good enough to win a championship sometimes

lorenzo, and rossi, are better in this aspect

ducati's bike was always ...., from 2003 to 2012. i guess is normal for a small company compared to the japanese. i remember seeing capi fighting with it, moving all the time...... this is not a bike you can win championships with, it never was. what helped stoner win with ducati was the bridgestone tyres in 07. that made the difference. the proof is 2008 season, i guess



birdman, firstly, there is no other king, only kr sr

second, all riders including rossi, are just riders, and dont have so much power as we think. carmelo has much less than we think too, imo

3 years now the sport continues even with rossi being nowhere

lorenzo, stoner, dani, its all about them now

rossi cant win forever

as for yamaha, its just normal that they want him too. look at agostini now,(or rainey etc) he finished his career with yamaha, and now yamaha uses this for sales and publicity reasons. the same will happen with rossi. want it or not he is one of the greatest riders we have seen. some believe the best of all time. you think yamaha doesnt want him to finish his career with them? isnt it a compliment for yamaha, to have a rider like rossi to ask to come back to ride their bike? its like advertisement for the brand by itself. everyone wants to ride their bike, even the one considered to be the best.
 
As per usual qualifying times don't mean .... till QP is over. The gap between Lorenzo to Rossi might as well be the length of a football field. If he can't do his best lap times consistently throughout the race - he'll be right where he's been last two seasons. Tomorrow with so many riders gone he'll do a bit better. Meh.



To be honest, qualifying times give an indication as to how each rider is placed but don't mean .... on race day. It's the race that matters as this gives the riders the points plus this is what everything is being setup for.



For this reason, it is irrelevant if a CRT bike qualifies ahead of a factory or satellite bike as what matters is whether it finishes the race ahead of that same bike.
 
He offered Yamaha to be part of MotoVR. How could they refuse$$$$$$. Read Capirossi's interview again. We need VR at the front, the fate of the series, of Italy, of the entire world depends on VR at the front, proving he is the real deal GOAT of all GOATS.



Just having a bit of a laugh about it but in all seriousness in my mind the series depends on ALL the riders on the grid being as competitive as possible.



If it means dropping the fuel and engine limits which created unobtainium as you put it then that should be the absolute top priority of Ezpeleta. But its not, Rossi is his top priority and he traded all his cards to get it for the same reason Yamaha bosses agreed. They speak the same language MotoVR $$$$$$$. All it does is create more unobtainium in that other equally talented but less popular riders will never get a competitive bike because they will never generate the $$$$$$$ Ezpeleta demands.



Whos the king of WSBK? Nobody, as it should be, just bike racing.



So you say Yamaha did it ultimately for their own interest -- I actually think they do not have really the same interests Dorna has, but anyway even assuming they coincide, that means they didn't need to be "coerced" into it.

Everybody do things for their own good interest. That's not conspiracy, it's business as usual.
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Regarding the fuel limits and the other HRC-manipulated technical rules, these rules come through MSMA, not through Dorna. Dorna only cares for TV audiences so Ezpeleta just wants a good show, and he is fighting a war precisely against the "unobtainium" kind of rules (this fine definition has been first applied to MotoGP matters by Kropotkin, I owe him royalties). Nobody would care too much for aging Rossi as long as the show is good and enough competitive bikes are on the grid -- but that's not happening and the culprit is not Ezpeleta.
 
So you say Yamaha did it ultimately for their own interest -- I actually think they do not have really the same interests Dorna has, but anyway even assuming they coincide, that means they didn't need to be "coerced" into it.

Everybody do things for their own good interest. That's not conspiracy, it's business as usual.
<




Regarding the fuel limits and the other HRC-manipulated technical rules, these rules come through MSMA, not through Dorna. Dorna only cares for TV audiences so Ezpeleta just wants a good show, and he is fighting a war precisely against the "unobtainium" kind of rules (this fine definition has been first applied to MotoGP matters by Kropotkin, I owe him royalties). Nobody would care too much for aging Rossi as long as the show is good and enough competitive bikes are on the grid -- but that's not happening and the culprit is not Ezpeleta.

Fair enough but why let the competitors dictate the technical rules, doesnt the self interest theory apply to them as well (Honda business as usual
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) As far as Im concerned Honda and Rossi act in exactly the same way, as expected. Its highly predictable that if you allow a competitior to influence the rules, the competitor will suit themselves. It aint rocket science. An impartial body would be expected to come up with the rules in any professional sport.
 
An impartial body would be expected to come up with the rules in any professional sport.
All the sports that I am familiar with, be they stick/ball or wheeled, are all self rule making and policing. Please give an example of a professional sport whose rules are created and policed by an impartial body.
 
All the sports that I am familiar with, be they stick/ball or wheeled, are all self rule making and policing. Please give an example of a professional sport whose rules are created and policed by an impartial body.

I dont mean outside the sport, just not by active competitors. The LA Lakers do not make the rules for basketball. The height of the hoop is not up discussion. If it were one team might want it a bit higher, the other a bit lower. Pedro would like the hoop about 2 foot high maybe.
 
I dont mean outside the sport, just not by active competitors. The LA Lakers do not make the rules for basketball. The height of the hoop is not up discussion. If it were one team might want it a bit higher, the other a bit lower. Pedro would like the hoop about 2 foot high maybe.
No but as I'm sure you are aware THE OWNERS of the LA Lakers and all the other teams DO make the rules... If the owners wanted a 8" or 12' high hoop we'd see it next year.
 

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