Best rider to never suceed above their expectations?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 15 2007, 04:49 PM)

The name that springs to my mind is John kocinski, i think he was another example of an incredibly talented rider let down by his fragile mind.

i would have thought jk was a bit before your time tom, what would a 10- year old no about the state of someones mind ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 16 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]101074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i would have thought jk was a bit before your time tom, what would a 10- year old no about the state of someones mind ?




Lil John was a genius a flawed one but a genius all the same. The fact that he walked the earth got Schwantz spitting blood.

Anyone who can win in the dry on the Cagiva deserves to be an icon. Shame he had his "issues" I had him down for a future 500 champ.

And fae the same time, Luca Cadalora, kicked Doohans arse on his day, but pulled in when things weren't right. Or when he fancied a smoke. On his day on a 500, Luca had the beating of anybody, but it was said he wouldnt take the BIG risks that Doohan, Schwantz and Rainey would if things weren't quite right.

Note that he is the only one of the four (Doohan Schwantz and Rainey and him) that didnt retire with some kind of disability.

Says a lot about 500 racing.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 16 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]101074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i would have thought jk was a bit before your time tom, what would a 10- year old no about the state of someones mind ?


I wont claim to have been there first hand, and naturally there is only so much you can learn about the past, but i'm a fan of the sport and i know my history.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Nov 16 2007, 10:57 AM) [snapback]101084[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


Lil John was a genius a flawed one but a genius all the same. The fact that he walked the earth got Schwantz spitting blood.

Anyone who can win in the dry on the Cagiva deserves to be an icon. Shame he had his "issues" I had him down for a future 500 champ.

And fae the same time, Luca Cadalora, kicked Doohans arse on his day, but pulled in when things weren't right. Or when he fancied a smoke. On his day on a 500, Luca had the beating of anybody, but it was said he wouldnt take the BIG risks that Doohan, Schwantz and Rainey would if things weren't quite right.

Note that he is the only one of the four (Doohan Schwantz and Rainey and him) that didnt retire with some kind of disability.

Says a lot about 500 racing.

Pete


Yes, Cadalora - a 250cc world champ, let us not forget it, but he could have done better in 500, that is true. Cadalora was kind of lazy, he would never do a workout in the gym like all other 500 riders... In between tests and qualification rounds you could see him 'retire' in his Porsche to chain-smoke his cigarettes. That was his training!
So naturally his problems was inconsistency. However, he was the best Italian on a 500 bike for a few years, when there were practically no Italians at the top.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Nov 18 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]101362[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
In between tests and qualification rounds you could see him 'retire' in his Porsche to chain-smoke his cigarettes. That was his training!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Nov 15 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]100883[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I just updated my avatar, and of course it's Anthony Gobert. I was just thinking, which riders have you thought that were going to make themselves a star, and haven't succeeded? He's my obvious choice, me being an Aussie.



Totally 100% agree.

The 'Go Show' is the most naturally talented rider I have ever seen and IMO could have been absolutely anything in the sport.

Unfortunately his lifestyle got the better of him and sadly his dependencies ruined what could have been an illustrious career.





Garry

I reckon Randy Mamola must be up there. To come second in the championship 4 times must have been hard to take.

Kato for sure.

There is no doubt that he would have been the first ever Japanese rider to win the MotoGP crown and I reckon he could have beaten Rossi and everyone else for that matter in the last 4 or so years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haga @ Nov 21 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]101761[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Kato for sure.

There is no doubt that he would have been the first ever Japanese rider to win the MotoGP crown and I reckon he could have beaten Rossi and everyone else for that matter in the last 4 or so years.


Judging the abilities of drivers and riders who die is something that is easy to get wrong. Most people fall into the trap of assuming that the pilot in questions career would have gone as well as possible and that they would have been the best ever blah blah blah. I hear it all the time about Senna, an people say the same about Kato. To ay he would definitely have been motogp world champion i think is a foolish move, nothing is that sure, and Rossi in his prime was seriously special. However i am a Kato fan, and i haven't the slightest bit of doubt that the worst he would have been was the 2nd best rider in the world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 22 2007, 12:18 PM) [snapback]101868[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Judging the abilities of drivers and riders who die is something that is easy to get wrong. Most people fall into the trap of assuming that the pilot in questions career would have gone as well as possible and that they would have been the best ever blah blah blah. I hear it all the time about Senna, an people say the same about Kato. To ay he would definitely have been motogp world champion i think is a foolish move, nothing is that sure, and Rossi in his prime was seriously special. However i am a Kato fan, and i haven't the slightest bit of doubt that the worst he would have been was the 2nd best rider in the world.


Alain proust said something quite prophetic about senna; ayrton has a problem, he thinks he cannot die. This was only partially true, as his death which is the worst thing I have ever seen live on tv seems to have been due to mechanical rather than driver errror, but was probably a fair comment on senna's approach to racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Nov 22 2007, 12:34 PM) [snapback]101871[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Alain proust said something quite prophetic about senna; ayrton has a problem, he thinks he cannot die. This was only partially true, as his death which is the worst thing I have ever seen live on tv seems to have been due to mechanical rather than driver errror, but was probably a fair comment on senna's approach to racing.


'That which does not kill me only makes me stronger'-Tupac Shakur

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haga @ Nov 21 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]101761[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Kato for sure.

There is no doubt that he would have been the first ever Japanese rider to win the MotoGP crown and I reckon he could have beaten Rossi and everyone else for that matter in the last 4 or so years.


He would not have beat Rossi+Repsol Honda but he could have been second with his potential.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 23 2007, 05:24 AM) [snapback]101906[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

He would not have beat Rossi+Repsol Honda but he could have been second with his potential.

Would've, Should've, Could've lets not play that game.........

Really Alex so what is this thread about then if it's not coulda woulda shoulda?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Nov 22 2007, 07:05 PM) [snapback]101916[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Would've, Should've, Could've lets not play that game.........


not playing any games, he was on a Gresini Honda wasn't he and when was the last time a non factory machine won the title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 22 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]101924[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
not playing any games, he was on a Gresini Honda wasn't he and when was the last time a non factory machine won the title.


He was on a Gresini Honda that was in title contention until the summer break under Gibernau, Kato in my opinion was better than Sete so we could have seen a miracle but it wasn't to be.

troy bayliss. proved he was top notch rider by winning his only race in 2006. who knows what he could of acheived if he had been there in 2006.

especially considering how the 2006 season panned out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Nov 22 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]101943[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
troy bayliss. proved he was top notch rider by winning his only race in 2006. who knows what he could of acheived if he had been there in 2006.

especially considering how the 2006 season panned out.


Much as I like and admire troy bayliss, he had a pretty fair run in the premier class and was generally out-performed by capirossi.

The Kato Gresini Honda was a third Factory spec bike.
Gibbers benefitted from Kato's departure.

The number one rider to not live up to his Potential will be
PEDROSA..

Anybody remember Mike Hale from he US. If I remember correctly he was being talked up as the next Rainey and fell flat on his face in Europe. Anyone have the skinny on him?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Nov 22 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]101943[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
troy bayliss. proved he was top notch rider by winning his only race in 2006. who knows what he could of acheived if he had been there in 2006.

especially considering how the 2006 season panned out.


Considering he already failed i dunno... he was on a high after winning the superbike title when he rode at valencia but was he 3rd maybe 4th in superbikes this year