2025 Silly Season

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I'd say Mir is the best rider without a 2025 contract. Mav is on his last leg. If he goes to Honda thats game over for him.
Joan is mentally stronger and more consistent, but relatively speaking, Mav has the numbers. He has twice as many career wins, and, [cherrypick] Vinales has 10 times as many wins in the premier class.[/cherrypick].

Mir is a world-champ, and he's probably a better fit for Honda, but on equal, functional equipment (not HRC), I think Mav would prevail.
 
Meh. Marquez is talented, perhaps the fastest ever, but Marquez politicking his way into the best team is much different from Rossi leaving the best team and building a dynasty at a manufacturer that hadn't won in a decade.

Rossi the man is lame, but his resume is still the best. Marc will need to win an 850cc title with KTM or Aprilia to achieve something comparable, imo. HRC are so terrible these days, an 850cc title with Honda might count :eek:

His record was also made early on on overnight special tyres not available to all. Head to head Lorenzo has it over him on the same machinery.
The Yamaha was clearly never far off the pace and don't forget how he went on the Ducati that Stoner (but only Stoner) had been able to make shine.
 
Meh. Marquez is talented, perhaps the fastest ever, but Marquez politicking his way into the best team is much different from Rossi leaving the best team and building a dynasty at a manufacturer that hadn't won in a decade.

Rossi the man is lame, but his resume is still the best. Marc will need to win an 850cc title with KTM or Aprilia to achieve something comparable, imo. HRC are so terrible these days, an 850cc title with Honda might count :eek:
I somewhat agree, but Rossi never had as serious an injury as Marquez. That to me makes his redemption story better. Not to mention Marquez won titles in a closer and harder era with control tyres and ECU etc (not that it's Rossis fault what era he raced in)

The Motogp technology book is an interesting read. The 2003 Yamaha was not as bad as many make out, but Rossi and Burgess gave them setup and development direction others didnt.
 
If he can stay healthy and sharp, the 850s should move back in his direction. In 2027 he will fight Bagnaia, Martin and Acosta and one or two riders from Moto2. It will be a tough battle, but the odds are in his favor when ride height disappears.
You are forgetting David Alonso.... I think he will be ready for MotoGP by 2027
 
Even if Marc goes on a Doohanesque 5 championship streak, the Valeban will always find a way to diminish his achievements. It's best to not argue with bad faith posters, wasting your time with pilpul is the small win they relish.
 
His record was also made early on on overnight special tyres not available to all. Head to head Lorenzo has it over him on the same machinery.
The Yamaha was clearly never far off the pace and don't forget how he went on the Ducati that Stoner (but only Stoner) had been able to make shine.

True, though the situation was the same at Honda. The satellite guys only got the best stuff when Honda needed their armada to relegate Vale as far back as possible. Estoril was a good example. Repsol hinted that Rossi's legend was built by Michelin putting their thumb on the scale to make sure MotoGP didn't become a one-make championship, but Rossi proved that he was legitimate in 2008 and 2009, imo. He also won a world title on a 500.

Rossi wasted two years at Ducati trying to turn around Ducati's fortunes. I guess that's comparable to Marquez campaigning the Honda in 2022 and 2023. Marc still lacks an against-all-odds achievement, imo.
 
True, though the situation was the same at Honda. The satellite guys only got the best stuff when Honda needed their armada to relegate Vale as far back as possible. Estoril was a good example. Repsol hinted that Rossi's legend was built by Michelin putting their thumb on the scale to make sure MotoGP didn't become a one-make championship, but Rossi proved that he was legitimate in 2008 and 2009, imo. He also won a world title on a 500.

Rossi wasted two years at Ducati trying to turn around Ducati's fortunes. I guess that's comparable to Marquez campaigning the Honda in 2022 and 2023. Marc still lacks an against-all-odds achievement, imo.

He got there and won the championship in his first year. He won on a machine others struggled to ride competetively for his later titles.
He has come back from serious injury and is on the podium on last years machine and significantly ahead of others than have ridden the brand for much longer.

What he was able to do with the front end of a motorcycle before aero and ride height has never been consistently displayed by any other rider. He has absolutely nothing else to prove and certainly nothing in any comparison with Rossi.
 
I uh
It appears that the loss of income Valentino Rossi is subject to due to his retirement is partially offset by his eternal ability to live rent free in the average MotoGP Forumer’s head.
And MM still lives rent free in the head of Valentino Rossi and his fans 9 years on from 2015 and several years on from his retirement, and would seem likely to continue doing so.

Thus nature balances.
 
I somewhat agree, but Rossi never had as serious an injury as Marquez. That to me makes his redemption story better. Not to mention Marquez won titles in a closer and harder era with control tyres and ECU etc (not that it's Rossis fault what era he raced in)

The Motogp technology book is an interesting read. The 2003 Yamaha was not as bad as many make out, but Rossi and Burgess gave them setup and development direction others didnt.

True, there is a redemption component to his arduous recovery, similar to Doohan, but I'm not sure it's "against all odds".

If he wins this year, it could be the against-all-odds triumph that he needs. In my opinion, the MSMA let this terrible formula proceed as a response to Marc annihilating the field. If he wins the world title on a satellite Ducati, against Bagnaia, Bastianini and Martin (who are on superior factory equipment), in a formula rigged to eliminate Marc's advantage--that would be a significant achievement in my eyes.
 
He got there and won the championship in his first year. He won on a machine others struggled to ride competetively for his later titles.
He has come back from serious injury and is on the podium on last years machine and significantly ahead of others than have ridden the brand for much longer.

What he was able to do with the front end of a motorcycle before aero and ride height has never been consistently displayed by any other rider. He has absolutely nothing else to prove and certainly nothing in any comparison with Rossi.
Rossi maybe (or i should say is a) paranoid ......... But, what he was able to achieve in 500, 990, 800 and 1000cc bikes is still very good. I agree that Casey & Marc are exceptional talents but Rossi is a better racer. Just my 2 cents.
 
He got there and won the championship in his first year. He won on a machine others struggled to ride competetively for his later titles.
He has come back from serious injury and is on the podium on last years machine and significantly ahead of others than have ridden the brand for much longer.

What he was able to do with the front end of a motorcycle before aero and ride height has never been consistently displayed by any other rider. He has absolutely nothing else to prove and certainly nothing in any comparison with Rossi.

The rookie season triumph does put Marc in rarefied air. Maybe he should try to win the Moto2 and MotoGP title in the same year? :p
 
True, there is a redemption component to his arduous recovery, similar to Doohan, but I'm not sure it's "against all odds".

If he wins this year, it could be the against-all-odds triumph that he needs. In my opinion, the MSMA let this terrible formula proceed as a response to Marc annihilating the field. If he wins the world title on a satellite Ducati, against Bagnaia, Bastianini and Martin (who are on superior factory equipment), in a formula rigged to eliminate Marc's advantage--that would be a significant achievement in my eyes.

The fact that aero and ride height has come in largely to reduce Marquez's margin over the best riders in the world is already a significant achievement in my eyes. Best I have seen.
 
Rossi maybe (or i should say is a) paranoid ......... But, what he was able to achieve in 500, 990, 800 and 1000cc bikes is still very good. I agree that Casey & Marc are exceptional talents but Rossi is a better racer. Just my 2 cents.
Head to head against Lorenzo he aint and this "better racer" seemed to run others off track on occasion. Yes he was a very good rider. Head to head against Marquez he was past his best, but he is nowhere. ;)
 
This headline from the bloke largely responsible for creating the dominant machine on the grid probably says a bit too;
Gigi Dall’Igna: “Our choice fell on an unquestionable talent like Marc Márquez”

He can see the data and he placed him ahead of the championship leader.
I don't know the MM is going to run away with it next year as the aero and ride height have removed part of his advantage, but gonna enjoy watching!
 
Head to head against Lorenzo he aint and this "better racer" seemed to run others off track on occasion. Yes he was a very good rider. Head to head against Marquez he was past his best, but he is nowhere. ;)

Lorenzo is higher on my favorites list, and he didn't win more world titles during the Lorenzo-Rossi career overlap; however, they did beat each other head-to-head twice. Rossi was a kick away from making it 3-2 during the overlap and 3-1 in head-to-head 😁

Anyway, Freddie was long before my time. I was just trying to think of something dramatic that Marquez could do that even the Vale fans would have to concede defeat.
 
Meh. Marquez is talented, perhaps the fastest ever, but Marquez politicking his way into the best team is much different from Rossi leaving the best team and building a dynasty at a manufacturer that hadn't won in a decade.

Rossi the man is lame, but his resume is still the best. Marc will need to win an 850cc title with KTM or Aprilia to achieve something comparable, imo. HRC are so terrible these days, an 850cc title with Honda might count :eek:
We will see whether MM can win more titles, but my memory of events is that he got to a Ducati factory seat by giving up the most lucrative contract in the sport, going to the lowliest Ducati satellite team, and performing sufficiently well there on a 1 year old bike to scare Ducati into thinking he might beat them riding for another manufacturer. And sure Rossi left mighty Honda, but not without major upgrading of their bike by Yamaha in prospect and the reputed possible involvement of Dorna.

I wouldn’t necessarily put MM ahead of Rossi, but not the reverse either. Agree the SNS tyres were largely a control tyre for most of Rossi’s titles, but if you want to talk politicking for advantage the tyre wars saga which got Rossi the Bridgestones back in 1998, and possibly according to your own hypothesis the tyre developed for Ducati removed is rather an example.

Sure Ducati could just have backed Pecco who looked to me to have good prospects of being a 5 time world champion himself by the end of the current formula, and still may have.
 
This headline from the bloke largely responsible for creating the dominant machine on the grid probably says a bit too;
Gigi Dall’Igna: “Our choice fell on an unquestionable talent like Marc Márquez”

He can see the data and he placed him ahead of the championship leader.
I don't know the MM is going to run away with it next year as the aero and ride height have removed part of his advantage, but gonna enjoy watching!
Same Gigi also says Pecco is one of the greatest driver, but we do conveniently ignore that. We just pick what we want;)
But I am happy to see the next 3 yrs fight between these 2 and Pedro
 

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