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2025 Silly Season
- Thread starter mikesbytes
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Ciabatti was asked to lead the fastest growing segment of the bike market (off road) given how successful he has made the GP team. It has absolutely nothing to do with Marc Marquez joining Gresini.
Secondly you can't post 'Some people are saying' and try and deflect responsibility unless you cite a source.
Secondly you can't post 'Some people are saying' and try and deflect responsibility unless you cite a source.
I guess the main question is whether there is enough dislike of him in Italy to affect bike sales, but Ducati is now pretty much a world wide super luxury brand now, and I don’t know if there are enough sufficiently rich members of the Valeban who won’t buy a Ducati decide because of MM to significantly affect sales.
Ducati have no reason to love Valentino, and having a peer of his such as MM win a title on their bike would likely be appealing, and Gigi who has a very major say seems to like him. I also believe it has already been reported that Pramsc would have signed him for this season if he had been prepared to sign for 2 years.
I could see difficulties with him signing for the factory team, it presumably wouldn’t please Bagnaia both because of his Rossi association and for other reasons, and because of the energy drink thing., although in general he can bring sponsorship far ahead of anyone else on the grid particularly if he has a good season. It depends on the seasons they both have and whether other marques look like they can threaten Ducati especially if they can gain the services of MM . I can’t see them putting MM next to Bagnaia iat all if Bagnaia wins a third successive title in dominant fashion.
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Honda still sell bikes in Italy despite Marc and Honda's bad divorce with Rossi. I think the rider dislike factor is way overstated in the bike market.
That's your guess, mate. You don't know unless you are a close friend to Ciabatti and he has told you. But you may wonder why in the world the man who dealt with riders contracts has gone to an MX project that doesn't even have a team yet nor the bike is ready to race. So you're guessing just like anybody else not named Paolo Ciabatti (and his closest friendship).
2nd, yes I can. There's no law neither rule regarding obligation of posting statements sources. So, I'm sorry but I can. Don't you wanna believe it? Ok man. No worries. I don't live from other people faith and I'm not begging for your faith either. I really don't care if you believe it or not since I don't owe you anything.
Now for the matter, I read this article many weeks ago and I don't have access anymore. Also, it was a guess of the guy who wrote it (an Italian insider), not an affirmation.
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It's one of the basic internationally recognized foundations or rules of proper debate. Has been since they were established in 1957.
Rules of Debate
(condensed from Competitive Debate: Rules and Techniques,
by George McCoy Musgrave. New York: H.W. Wilson, 1957)
(condensed from Competitive Debate: Rules and Techniques,
by George McCoy Musgrave. New York: H.W. Wilson, 1957)
1. There are two teams, each consisting of two or three speakers.
2. Each team has two or three constructive speeches, and two to three rebuttal speeches. The affirmative gives the first constructive speech, and the rebuttals alternate: negative, affirmative, negative, affirmative. The affirmative has both the first and last speeches of the debate.
3. When worded as a proposition of policy, the topic requires the affirmative to support some specified action by some particular individual or group. The affirmative has the right to make any reasonable definition of each of the terms of the proposition. If the negative challenges the reasonableness of a definition by the affirmative, the judge must accept the definition of the team that shows better grounds for its interpretation of the term.
4. The affirmative must advocate everything required by the topic itself. No revision of position of a team is permitted during the debate.
5. He who asserts must prove. In order to establish an assertion, the team must support it with enough evidence and logic to convince an intelligent but previously uninformed person that it is more reasonable to believe the assertion than to disbelieve it. Facts must be accurate. Visual materials are permissible, and once introduced, they become available for the opponents' use if desired.
6. In the questioning period, the questioner may ask any fair, clear question that has a direct bearing on the debate. The questioner may use the period to build up any part of his own case, to tear down any part of his opposition's case, or to ascertain facts, such as the opposition's position on a certain issue, that can be used later in the debate. The questioner must confine himself to questions and not make statements, comments, or ask rhetorical questions.
7. Each speaker is questioned as soon as he concludes his constructive speech. The witness must answer the questions without consulting his colleagues.
8. No new constructive arguments may be introduced in the rebuttal period. The affirmative must, if possible, reply to the major negative arguments before the last rebuttal.
9. The judge must base his decision entirely on the material presented, without regard for other material which he may happen to possess.
10. Any gains made outside of the established procedure are disallowed.
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While accurate, I think this is going a little over the top.
Be respectful to each other debating the content of the post and not the poster. If someone politely requests the source then provide it, if you can't find it then appologise that you couldn't find it. Don't worry if its in another language, those who are keen to read it can use a translate tool.
Enjoy the racing season, its more fun than worrying about someone being wrong on the internet
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I don't. Tired of reading speculative posts that don't match objective evidence and having no evidence provided to support them. Reading them once maybe, but not when they are repeated ad nauseum with no source or evidence provided.While accurate, I think this is going a little over the top.
Be respectful to each other debating the content of the post and not the poster. If someone politely requests the source then provide it, if you can't find it then appologise that you couldn't find it. Don't worry if its in another language, those who are keen to read it can use a translate tool.
Enjoy the racing season, its more fun than worrying about someone being wrong on the internet
Guys are going nuts cause I said someone somewhere some time ago thought some Ducati employees looked for job somewhere else because of the arrival of MM (which I agree in parts).
So they want me to show my cards. But next they "call" me liar (??) and claim the employees just went away solely for money or new challenges.
So we have me saying X and they saying Y. But I have to present my sources to prove my point but they don't. They automatically assume employees got away thanks to natural forces.
Is this fair in a debate? What the "rules" says about this? One side needs to be backed and the other doesn't.
So they want me to show my cards. But next they "call" me liar (??) and claim the employees just went away solely for money or new challenges.
So we have me saying X and they saying Y. But I have to present my sources to prove my point but they don't. They automatically assume employees got away thanks to natural forces.
Is this fair in a debate? What the "rules" says about this? One side needs to be backed and the other doesn't.
If you're tired you can always close your browser and go sleep instead of trying to set the boundaries in a discussion, specially in a open space like a forum.
I dont see why Bagnaia will oppose, he seems like a mature guy except for that DUI. He was anyways comfortable with Casey being a VR protege
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Then likewise, don't dismiss my posts.
"What can be asserted without evidence, can be refuted without evidence"
How convenient.
Here is an interview confirming Ducati moved him to the Mx division. Nothing to do with him not wanting to work with MM
Interview: Paolo Ciabatti on Ducati's motocross move
I agree with you in principle, the person making the assertion is the one who needs to make his/her case.
I am fine with gui22a speculating and basing ithis on other speculation, but without hard evidence like citing an actual source which can be evaluated speculation is what it is.
I don’t consider it all that out there to suggest dome Italians in the motogp scene hold a grudge against MM, although Bagnaia himself has never to my knowledge been a supporter of Rossi’s and Uccio’s conspiracy theories, and the most important guy at Ducati ie Gigi doesn’t seem to have a problem with him and definitely didn’t have a problem with Jorge Lorenzo, the other supposed 2016 plotter., and Gresini and Pramac don’t seem to have a problem either. If Bagnaia has won 3 successive titles after this season I don’t see why they would want to rock the boat of the factory team though.
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Perhaps English is a second language. "Tired", in the context it was written, meant finding it boring. The are other less favourable descriptive terms that would also fit.
Perhaps read the link Keshav posted again. It suggested in a debate points should be supported by evidence. You have provided none.
some Italians and the other supposed 2015 plotter I meant.
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Speculating is fine, but posting something as fact or 'right' without evidence of such, is not.
They are going to have to rock the boat one way or another, because if not Marc, then very likely it will be Martin on the other side of the garage.
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Yep it seems the owners of Ducati are most displeased with having Marquez on a Ducati.
Hmm they own Audi too. They are also displeased to be associated with Marquez. They gave him a car to keep him quiet
Ducati and Audi are both part of the Volkswagen Group, smoothing the process for the Marquez brothers to land this new sponsorship.
“We are very proud that they are ambassadors for Audi and that they ride a Ducati,” Audi managing director José Miguel Aparicio said.
Audi, through their partnership with Ducati, are now on the list of Marquez’s sponsors too.
Marc Marquez given Audi worth six figures as he pens new sponsorship deal
Audi pen sponsorship deal with Marc Marquez and Alex Marquez
