2024 silly season!

mylexicon · Sep 29, 2023

MichaelBolton said:
Rumors coming from Ricard Jové (who gets some things right and others wrong) is that in the wake of a possible Márquez departure, there have been contacts from Honda inquiring about the contract situation of... Maverick Viñales and Aprilia's team manager Massimo Rivola. I think the claim is a wild one to be true and also I don't know why either of them would leave for Honda, other than the economical package.

Either way, the domino pieces are falling already: Key Honda technical director exits as major reshuffle begins

If I were Honda I would offer the HRC seat to Oliveira, he's more talented and "instinctive" than Mav IMO, who needs to have everything right to go fast and takes his time to adapt, plus he has proven himself on troublesome machinery already.

Read that earlier today. Rivola to Honda would be an interesting development. He's been quite old school when proposing potential directions for MotoGP to take, and he seems to support the concept of sport in MotoGP, rather than just another media property for an oligopoly. Rivola is also quite talented.

I wonder if he would change his tune after moving to Honda or if Honda are interested because of his talent, and his support for removing ride height and aero from the MotoGP equation. HRC and Rivola could be a powerful alliance. He doesn't have enough clout at Aprilia, imo.

gui22a · Sep 29, 2023

michaelm said:
Each to their own was my point. It seems fairly likely you don’t want MM to surpass Valentino’s records. It is pretty much a done deal that he won’t match or surpass Rossi for premier class winsin any case btw, he needs 30 odd more wins and I really can’t see him racing for several more years to do so after all his injuries. Credit to Valentino for avoiding injury for all those years in his pomp.

Why shouldn’t Max be a fan of MM’s , who is quite definitely in the very top echelon of GP riders ever and a thrilling rider to watch. I personally found Casey Stoner, of whom Alex Criville for one seemed to be a fan perhaps partly related to being a Honda guy, even better to watch. Most of us have our favourites.and are biased one way or another..

It think you are misunderstanding my points. I really don't care if MM surpass Rossi's records or not. I don't give a .... to it.

Actually, I always found Rossi, MM and even Stoner to be boring riders to watch in their top form, not by their skills, but because of their domination. Only in the very beginning of each one's era I had some fun rooting for them, most because of them dethroning the current "king" in their age (I actually loved the 2007 season, IMO it was the best of all I have followed). After they get to the throne (Stoner in Honda), they became an "enemy" for my enthusiasm. The 2013 season was fantastic with MM winning the title having he just climbed to the top class and giving Rossi/Lorenzo (another boring rider) a run for their money, where in 2014 season it was one of the most boring ever with MM winning 10 races in a row. How fun is that? Maybe for dumb rider fanboys, not for me. I love bikes, not riders.

Everyone like to talk about such a "bike" dominating and bla bla bla, but when a rider gets to dominate and monopolizes the sport, you can't sum 2 guys complaining. People apparently don't care if a rider wins 6 titles, 10 races in a row, finishes a season 300 poitns more than the 2nd placed, but they get bothered if a certain bike comes to do the same whatever the rider it gets itself under. Perhaps this denotes the need for a human being to have an idol to mirror himself at.

mikesbytes · Sep 29, 2023

The future of M Marquez is related to what the bike does and hence why we have had discussion about the Honda here. Is the fact that M Marquez is noticeably quicker than other Honda riders is perhaps a predictor as to what is wrong with the Honda? I'm going to guess that there is a lack of confidence in the feel in the front end and hence M Marquez is happy to push it harder than other Honda riders? Give me you views on this

Where M Marquez goes next year could impact what happens with KTM's 5 riders for 4 bikes. I'd guess that if M Marquez leaves then HRC will investigate Miller as a possible replacement. There's still the possibility of HRC getting a Moto2 rider, they did buy out A Marquez's Moto2 contract to get him to replace Lorenzo

michaelm · Sep 30, 2023

michaelm said:
Each to their own was my point. It seems fairly likely you don’t want MM to surpass Valentino’s records. It is pretty much a fone deal that he won’t match or surpass him for premier blasts wins btw in any case btw, he needs 30 odd more wins and I really can’t see him racing for several more years after all his injuries. Credit to Valentino for avoiding injury for all those years in his pomp.

Why shouldn’t Max be a fan of MM’s , who is very definitely in the very top echelon of GP riders and a thrilling rider to watch. I personally found Casey Stoner, of whom Alex Criville for one seemed to be a fan without any obvious ulterior motives, even better to watch., Most of us have our favourites

gui22a said:
It think you are misunderstanding my points. I really don't care if MM surpass Rossi's records or not. I don't give a .... to it.

Actually, I always found Rossi, MM and even Stoner to be boring riders to watch in their top form, not by their skills, but because of their domination. Only in the very beginning of each one's era I had some fun rooting for them, most because of them dethroning the current "king" in their age (I actually loved the 2007 season, IMO it was the best of all I have followed). After they get to the throne (Stoner in Honda), they became an "enemy" for my enthusiasm. The 2013 season was fantastic with MM winning the title having he just climbed to the top class and giving Rossi/Lorenzo (another boring rider) a run for their money, where in 2014 season it was one of the most boring ever with MM winning 10 races in a row. How fun is that? Maybe for dumb rider fanboys, not for me. I love bikes, not riders.

Everyone like to talk about such a "bike" dominating and bla bla bla, but when a rider gets to dominate and monopolizes the sport, you can't sum 2 guys complaining. People apparently don't care if a rider wins 6 titles, 10 races in a row, finishes a season 300 poitns more than the 2nd placed, but they get bothered if a certain bike comes to do the same whatever the rider it gets itself under. Perhaps this denotes the need for a human being to have an idol to mirror himself at.

We have different views then. I am all for close racing, but not contrived close racing a la the convenient yellow flags in Nascar.. if someone is dominating by being better I have no problem with that, including Valentino doing so in his pomp. My objection was to every in any way significant rival of Valentino’s being pilloried by an element among his fandom, which I blamed on that element when Hayden won and during Stoner’s career, but it became fairly obvious during 2015 that Valentino was far from an innocent bystander.

I was a default Ducati fan for most of the several decades Ii have followed the sport, and while only 4 riders on the Honda or Yamaha factory bikes, and even then not usually the second Yamaha rider, could win a race that was obviously unsatisfactory, my current objection is to an equalisation formula producing only one consistently competitive bike, which was at least partially imo a consequence of development being frozen after a team stole a march, as with Mercedes in F1, with Ducati having benefited from concessions to develop their bike in the first place. I am also philosophically unkeen on ride height devices and aero being so influential, having watched F1 being ruined by aero back in the day.

I don’t think we disagree about liking to see input from actual human riders however.

PRS717 · Sep 30, 2023

michaelm said:
but it became fairly obvious during 2015 that Valentino was far from an innocent bystander.

This made me go back and watch the "incident" at Malaysia. Without getting into the drama of it all, when was the last time you saw a battle like that in MotoGP? Hasn't been one since that I can recall. They made more overtakes on each other inside of 7 laps than the whole of MotoGP this season. And they were amazing overtakes and then.......That racing has gone and I don't think is coming back. *Sigh*

Bern1 · Sep 30, 2023

Just read some fluff that Acosta seems to being lead on by KTM. I says bollocks. Go get the best deal you can to get into MGP Pedro.

History is not kind to talented riders who stay in the junior class too long. Even more than one season with the talent Acosta has.

michaelm · Sep 30, 2023

Bern1 said:
Just read some fluff that Acosta seems to being lead on by KTM. I says bollocks. Go get the best deal you can to get into MGP Pedro.

History is not kind to talented riders who stay in the junior class too long. Even more than one season with the talent Acosta has.

Maybe things will change if the satellite team gets a CF bike next year, but recently if the prize for winning or finishing second in the moto 2 championship is a contract on the KTM satellite motogp team, finishing third looks like the best option for a moto 2 rider. Remy Gardner was gone from motogp after 1 year and Raul Fernandez didn’t exactly prosper either.

You can’t expect a rider of Acosta’s quality to wait around for a year as Alpine found with Piastri in F1.

MichaelBolton · Sep 30, 2023

If I'm Honda, I'm throwing the kitchen sink to get him if Marc departs.

warthog1 · Sep 30, 2023

He isn't that silly, surely?

michaelm · Oct 1, 2023

PRS717 said:
This made me go back and watch the "incident" at Malaysia. Without getting into the drama of it all, when was the last time you saw a battle like that in MotoGP? Hasn't been one since that I can recall. They made more overtakes on each other inside of 7 laps than the whole of MotoGP this season. And they were amazing overtakes and then.......That racing has gone and I don't think is coming back. *Sigh*

I thought there was at least an element after the ludicrous pre-race press conference accusations of if you want to see me interfering with a title contender you have got it, but also that he raced Valentino for position as a rider is always entitled to do hard but fair, and that it was pretty much and probably deliberately on MM's part a re-creation of a contest for 3rd or 4th between Lorenzo and Rossi in 2010 when Lorenzo could have clinched the title and Rossi was not in title contention. I actually thought Rossi was entitled to race Jorge then, Jorge basically couldn't lose the title because of an injury to his only remaining title rival Dani Pedrosa. Jorge was clearly faster and had caught him up, but Valentino made it too risky for him to get past.

The other thing for me was that Rossi gained 3 net points by running MM of the track at Sepang, I saw no evidence that Rossi was other than 4th quickest on the day and Pedrosa was always going to win that race, it being one of those weekends for Dani as was obvious to anyone who had watched him over the years. The only evidence MM could be faster than Lorenzo was one banzai qualifying lap. and he had always had such a lap in him at that stage in his career, and pushing hard early had seen MM crash out 6 times or more that season which is why he was out of title contention.

mikesbytes · Oct 1, 2023

MichaelBolton said:
If I'm Honda, I'm throwing the kitchen sink to get him if Marc departs.

Agree. Acosta has post on social media looks concerned about what has happened so far this year in regards to next year. I'd bet that if KTM try to get him to stay in Moto2 that they would be in breach of contract and Acosta will be snapped up for whichever MotoGP bike is still available

Barbedwirebikerr · Oct 1, 2023

mikesbytes said:
Agree. Acosta has post on social media looks concerned about what has happened so far this year in regards to next year. I'd bet that if KTM try to get him to stay in Moto2 that they would be in breach of contract and Acosta will be snapped up for whichever MotoGP bike is still available

Please. Let's not waste Acosta on a '24, '25 honda.

michaelm · Oct 1, 2023

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Please. Let's not waste Acosta on a '24,

michaelm said:

I thought there was at least an element after the ludicrous pre-race press conference accusations of if you want to see me interfering with a title contender you have got it, but also that he raced Valentino for position as a rider is always entitled to do hard but fair, and that it was pretty much and probably deliberately on MM's part a re-creation of a contest for 3rd or 4th between Lorenzo and Rossi in 2010 when Lorenzo could have clinched the title and Rossi was not in title contention. I actually thought Rossi was entitled to race Jorge then, Jorge basically couldn't lose the title because of an injury to his only remaining title rival Dani Pedrosa. Jorge was clearly faster and had caught him up, but Valentino made it too risky for him to get past.

The other thing for me was that Rossi gained 3 net points by running MM of the track at Sepang, I saw no evidence that Rossi was other than 4th quickest on the day and Pedrosa was always going to win that race, it being one of those weekends for Dani as was obvious to anyone who had watched him over the years. The only evidence MM could be faster than Lorenzo was one banzai qualifying lap. and he had always had such a lap in him at that stage in his career, and pushing hard early had seen MM crash out 6 times or more that season which is why he was out of title contention.

Click to expand...

'25 honda.

off the track

MichaelBolton · Oct 1, 2023

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Please. Let's not waste Acosta on a '24, '25 honda

Another year in Moto2 is arguably a bigger waste, he wasn't gonna fight for the championship in his first year anyway. He only needs to learn the ropes and be the top Honda then sign elsewhere after that if Honda hasn't improved by then.

warthog1 · Oct 1, 2023

I do not see either KTM or Acosta leaving him in moto2 for another year.
If not then KTM are stupid.
He will be on a KTM next year and it will be a far better bike than Remy had. The bikes have moved on.

PRS717 · Oct 1, 2023

warthog1 said:
I do not see either KTM or Acosta leaving him in moto2 for another year.
If not then KTM are stupid.
He will be on a KTM next year and it will be a far better bike than Remy had. The bikes have moved on.

Matt Birt said a couple of times that Pedro stated a move to MotoGP may not be as certain as he previously thought. What's with that?

michaelm · Oct 1, 2023

warthog1 said:
I do not see either KTM or Acosta leaving him in moto2 for another year.
If not then KTM are stupid.
He will be on a KTM next year and it will be a far better bike than Remy had. The bikes have moved on.

If Acosta is the rare talent he seems to be then they would be absolutely stupid to waste him indeed. And the factory bikes have been much better this year which will presumably extend to the satellite bikes next year if that is where Acosta goes, but not necessarily to how that team is run.

I do see that the Red Bull program garnering so much talent is a problem for that talent though. I don’t know whether Acosta is contracted to KTM next year, but he could probably pick pretty much any destination he wants if not contractually bound. Remy Gardner may not have what it takes for the premier class, but he had very little chance of prospering on that satellite KTM last year. And iirc Raul Fernandez wanted to stay in moto 2 for another year.

MdubSTYLIE · Oct 1, 2023

michaelm said:
If Acosta is the rare talent he seems to be then they would be absolutely stupid to waste him indeed. And the factory bikes have been much better this year which will presumably extend to the satellite bikes next year if that is where Acosta goes, but not necessarily to how that team is run.

I do see that the Red Bull program garnering so much talent is a problem for that talent though. I don’t know whether Acosta is contracted to KTM next year, but he could probably pick pretty much any destination he wants if not contractually bound. Remy Gardner may not have what it takes for the premier class, but he had very little chance of prospering on that satellite KTM last year. And iirc Raul Fernandez wanted to stay in moto 2 for another year.

I believe Acosta gave them a deadline of june or he would seek other teams. They stated then he would be promoted. To me anything less than a factory ride and he should leave. If the Marc and gresini thing doesn't actually happen then thats where I'd go if I was Pedro.

michaelm · Oct 1, 2023

MdubSTYLIE said:
I believe Acosta gave them a deadline of june or he would seek other teams. They stated then he would be promoted. To me anything less than a factory ride and he should leave. If the Marc and gresini thing doesn't actually happen then thats where I'd go if I was Pedro.

That is my view as well. Factory KTM ride or go elsewhere. Do you know his contractual situation ?.

mikesbytes · Oct 1, 2023

I'll guess that Acosta will take Pol's bike but it does also depend on what's written in the contracts. In the situation that Acosta ended up somewhere else such as Repsol Honda it would be likely that Acosta would only sign a 1 year contract and then move to KTM or Ducati the following year.

2024 silly season!

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