This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

2020 Monster Energy Grand Prix České republiky

zarco.png


"I was surprised that everyone has said that I have drawn it perfectly. I expected to lose positions and it is true that no one overtook me. It's the first time I've done that line and I felt comfortable. Maybe it's because of my experience with the Ducati Multistrada with which I usually move around the street ”.

LoL, and still make some merchan for Ducati.

Zarco is a fighter.
 
gui22a said:
Are you sure you watch MotoGP? Ah, yeah, the guy that another day also said Dovi had won more races than Dani Pedrosa... another shame. Ok, let's go!


Together with MM on track:

Dovi wins (since 2016, his first victory with Duc): 13 times.

Lorenzo wins (since 2013, the debut year for MM where he got champion already): 24 times (7 times in 2015 alone. 3 times beat both MM and Dovi, the former on the same bike).

Also, Lorenzo beat MM on the title race, becoming world champion, something much bigger than winning isolated races here and there but never getting the title, like Dovi (win a race, the next gets 11th.. what a great rider...). Also, Lorenzo managed to beat MM on two completely different machines.

The fact that you have an weak memory doesn't mean Dovizioso was, once upon a time, excluding MM, the best of the rest. In any case, you could have done a quick search on google before saying bullcrap.

Honda managed to hire Lorenzo because he was growing a big threat for them riding the Ducati. Honda isn't fool.
Click to expand...

Read again, I said who has beaten Marquez more times than Dovi. Maybe I should be more specific. I don't count races where Marquez beat himself by crashing. I'm talking about head-to-head duels. I realize that's moving the goalposts, but really, what's pertinent, or germaine, is that riders who have beaten the freakishly talented Marquez in a head-to-head battle are by definition a very elite group. I don't use the term alien because it's a sophomoric and dated term/concept. There is no real consensus as to what constitutes being an "alien".

As to Honda not being the fool, uhhh....how many races did Lorenzo win for them?

And BTW - for years I've been saying Honda is foolish to put all their eggs in one basket by not making a more rider friendly bike. The stupidity of this way of doing things is only surpassed by the hiring of Alex as his teammate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Keshav said:
As to the "Dovi was never an alien" nonsense, puhhleeeze:rolleyes:. He's old and he's burned out - but show me another rider who's beaten Marquez more times than Dovi.
Click to expand...

Thought that also.
Well planned and executed passes against someone extremely difficult to do so.
 
warthog1 said:
Thought that also.
Well planned and executed passes against someone extremely difficult to do so.
Click to expand...

Great passes, great strategy involved, using the strengths of his bike and exploiting the weaknesses of MM’s. Depends what floats your boat, and as racing fans for most it is passes like those ones, but Jorge did flat out beat MM just by being faster on a number of occasions, despite an internal team conflict with a team-mate at Yamaha with different preferences in regard to the bike and tires, and in my view capricious tire changes which worked against him as well.

For JL fans, among whom Gigi seemed to number, it looks currently very much like those wins by Dovi were on Jorge’s bike, and that him strong arming Ducati into his current contract and the ditching of Jorge were the wrong moves by Ducati, although understandable at the time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Sure don't disagree Jorge is the better rider and it would appear could develop a bike to suit his style but could also modify his strengths as he did on the duke.

Those passes by Dovi were still something to behold and required nerve, skill, planning and execution. [emoji41]
 
Keshav said:
Read again, I said who has beaten Marquez more times than Dovi. Maybe I should be more specific. I don't count races where Marquez beat himself by crashing. I'm talking about head-to-head duels. I realize that's moving the goalposts, but really, what's pertinent, or germaine, is that riders who have beaten the freakishly talented Marquez in a head-to-head battle are by definition a very elite group. I don't use the term alien because it's a sophomoric and dated term/concept. There is no real consensus as to what constitutes being an "alien".

As to Honda not being the fool, uhhh....how many races did Lorenzo win for them?

And BTW - for years I've been saying Honda is foolish to put all their eggs in one basket by not making a more rider friendly bike. The stupidity of this way of doing things is only surpassed by the hiring of Alex as his teammate.
Click to expand...

Wait a moment, that's not fair. JLo's style is not head-to-head battles, he just starts and run away, that's the way he won many races! Why, for the sake of the discussion, that wouldn't count as an 1 x 1 win? And more, the only race he needed to battle MM head-to-head, he WON (I think Phillip Island 2015, he overtook MM over the kerbs, it was a nice move).That race, he even went public asking for critics to shut up about he not being good enough on fierce battles.
 
warthog1 said:
Sure don't disagree Jorge is the better rider and it would appear could develop a bike to suit his style but could also modify his strengths as he did on the duke.

Those passes by Dovi were still something to behold and required nerve, skill, planning and execution. [emoji41]
Click to expand...

Sure, not many riders in history could make such passes on MM and get them to stick imo.

Even I as a JL fan find PI 2017 hard to defend although I would still like to think JL would have ceded position at the end of the race if it kept Dovi in the title race. It was perhaps somewhat reflective of the antipathy between the riders, but the discussion as to who was more responsible for the strength of the bike looks fairly firmly decided in JL’s favour now, and the ousting of JL although backing Dovi gave every appearance of being the way to go at the time (except for it not being being Gigi's wish) damaged both Ducati and even Dovi’s prospects imo, as he has gone back to where he was at Ducati pre JL and Gigi.
 
Last edited:
Keshav said:
Congrats to Binder. And to KTM. I don't think there was much doubt in the minds of folks who've followed racing that a combination of KTM and Red Bull, two entities that are super focused and just plain good at winning, would eventually get where they are. I am tho, really pleasantly surprised that they managed to pull it off in such a short time. As to what degree Pedrosa can be said to be responsible for this quantum leap in progress from last year to now... I'd want to hear it from a top person at KTM.

Have to admit, I would never have expected Morbidelli to just walk away from Fabio like that. Haven't had time to look at tire allocation, but of course it has to have been a factor. The way Yamaha keeps falling behind in development is truly sad. They have such a great tradition of greatness. I do fully expect that Fabio will come back strong.

And Zarco, gotta say I thought that pass was okay. He's been accused of rough passing before, and I really think that's what motivated race control to question the pass.

All in all, I can't recall the last time a final lap was so loaded with drama - for all three riders. Nearly pissed myself. Totally love and admire Marc, but it's defo better racing when he's away. The absence of the guy who predictably annihilates the field, definitely changes the mind-set of all the other riders. Totally different dynamic.

As to the "Dovi was never an alien" nonsense, puhhleeeze:rolleyes:. He's old and he's burned out - but show me another rider who's beaten Marquez more times than Dovi.
Click to expand...



Pit Beirer, KTM Motorsports Director: “For KTM this is an unbelievable day. It’s historic for our company and for the whole team but of course for Brad Binder; who has believed in us and our project for many years. Today is payback for so much hard work. We knew we had a better bike for this year and this did not happen by accident: it came from everything we learned during the last years. With Dani Pedrosa, Mika Kallio and the test team we worked and developed for over a full year to have this bike now. At the end of the day you need a fantastic rider to put the bike on the top step and Brad did it today, and in the same style as he won in Moto3 and Moto2 races for us. It´s an incredible feeling and we will now build on this result. On the other hand, I want to thank Pol Espargaro because also he - together with his crew – brought every piece of the puzzle together to bring this project to the top. Today is the result of a fantastic team effort: at home in Munderfing and Mattighofen, through the test team and a great crew on track.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
michaelm said:
He has won a few more premier class races than Crafar.
Click to expand...
Simon was on Twitter last night, he said that now he's seen the overhead helicopter view (he didn't in pit lane during the race) that he was incorrect and Zarco did nothing wrong.

I really do like Mr Crafar, sure he was a cluster .... when he first started doing the pitlane stuff, but he's 100% awesome now!

Macca
 
Macca said:
Simon was on Twitter last night, he said that now he's seen the overhead helicopter view (he didn't in pit lane during the race) that he was incorrect and Zarco did nothing wrong.

I really do like Mr Crafar, sure he was a cluster .... when he first started doing the pitlane stuff, but he's 100% awesome now!

Macca
Click to expand...
He was terrible but even at the start if you put his awkwardness aside and just listened to what he was saying his insight was always incredible.
 
warthog1 said:
Sure don't disagree Jorge is the better rider and it would appear could develop a bike to suit his style but could also modify his strengths as he did on the duke.

Those passes by Dovi were still something to behold and required nerve, skill, planning and execution. [emoji41]
Click to expand...

michaelm said:
Sure, not many riders in history could make such passes on MM and get them to stick imo.

Even I as a JL fan find PI 2017 hard to defend although I would still like to think JL would have ceded position at the end of the race if it kept Dovi in the title race. It was perhaps somewhat reflective of the antipathy between the riders, but the discussion as to who was more responsible for the strength of the bike looks fairly firmly decided in JL’s favour now, and the ousting of JL although backing Dovi gave every appearance of being the way to go at the time (except for it not being being Gigi's wish) damaged both Ducati and even Dovi’s prospects imo, as he has gone back to where he was at Ducati pre JL and Gigi.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that JL was behind changes that were beneficial to him. I would tho, point out, that the post-Rossi Ducati was really crap when Dovi signed on. A series of small and major improvements occurred during those years since Dovi signed on and when Lorenzo came and got on what was a Ducati that was vastly superior. That is a ....-load of time developing and being a new-parts mule. By the time Lorenzo came along other riders were already managing to have good results on the Ducati. People are acting like he turned a turd into a diamond. From where I stand, it's a case of his standing on the shoulders of giants. Dovi and Ducati handed Lorenzo a great "sports car", and Lorenzo moved the seat forward a few clicks and made a more compact ashtray, and everybody proclaims him as a development genius. Yet no-one gives Dovi credit for all the hard work he did during the not-so-glamorous Ducati years.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Barbedwirebikerr said:
Pit Beirer, KTM Motorsports Director: “For KTM this is an unbelievable day. It’s historic for our company and for the whole team but of course for Brad Binder; who has believed in us and our project for many years. Today is payback for so much hard work. We knew we had a better bike for this year and this did not happen by accident: it came from everything we learned during the last years. With Dani Pedrosa, Mika Kallio and the test team we worked and developed for over a full year to have this bike now. At the end of the day you need a fantastic rider to put the bike on the top step and Brad did it today, and in the same style as he won in Moto3 and Moto2 races for us. It´s an incredible feeling and we will now build on this result. On the other hand, I want to thank Pol Espargaro because also he - together with his crew – brought every piece of the puzzle together to bring this project to the top. Today is the result of a fantastic team effort: at home in Munderfing and Mattighofen, through the test team and a great crew on track.”
Click to expand...

Mate, I'm not saying Pedrosa wasn't part of the team. I'm saying there's been no indication from KTM that he was the guiding light, the spark of hope: One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. etc etc.
 
Keshav said:
I don't doubt that JL was behind changes that were beneficial to him. I would tho, point out, that the post-Rossi Ducati was really crap when Dovi signed on. A series of small and major improvements occurred during those years since Dovi signed on and when Lorenzo came and got on what was a Ducati that was vastly superior. That is a ....-load of time developing and being a new-parts mule. By the time Lorenzo came along other riders were already managing to have good results on the Ducati. People are acting like he turned a turd into a diamond. From where I stand, it's a case of his standing on the shoulders of giants. Dovi and Ducati handed Lorenzo a great "sports car", and Lorenzo moved the seat forward a few clicks and made a more compact ashtray, and everybody proclaims him as a development genius. Yet no-one gives Dovi credit for all the hard work he did during the not-so-glamorous Ducati years.
Click to expand...
The Ducati prior to Rossi wasn't the best for anyone bar Stoner either.
We don't have complete knowledge of what Lorenzo changed on the bike.
I would expect it is slightly more involved than what you are suggesting there [emoji6]
Either way he has 5 world titles under his belt and there is plenty of positive feedback from multiple sources on how he contributed to development of the bike he won 3 premiere titles on.
Gigi you would expect has some insight also.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
warthog1 said:
The Ducati prior to Rossi wasn't the best for anyone bar Stoner either.
We don't have complete knowledge of what Lorenzo changed on the bike.
I would expect it is slightly more involved than what you are suggesting there [emoji6]
Either way he has 5 world titles under his belt and there is plenty of positive feedback from multiple sources on how he contributed to development of the bike he won 3 premiere titles on.
Gigi you would expect has some insight also.
Click to expand...

Well - I was speaking prosaically. ie: compared to many more years put in by Dovi.
 
Keshav said:
I don't doubt that JL was behind changes that were beneficial to him. I would tho, point out, that the post-Rossi Ducati was really crap when Dovi signed on. A series of small and major improvements occurred during those years since Dovi signed on and when Lorenzo came and got on what was a Ducati that was vastly superior. That is a ....-load of time developing and being a new-parts mule. By the time Lorenzo came along other riders were already managing to have good results on the Ducati. People are acting like he turned a turd into a diamond. From where I stand, it's a case of his standing on the shoulders of giants. Dovi and Ducati handed Lorenzo a great "sports car", and Lorenzo moved the seat forward a few clicks and made a more compact ashtray, and everybody proclaims him as a development genius. Yet no-one gives Dovi credit for all the hard work he did during the not-so-glamorous Ducati years.
Click to expand...

Who knows, but as has been said Gigi at least seemed to think Jorge was fairly crucial, along with Jorge himself of course. Whoever turned it from a turd to a diamond, the 2020 bike with which Jorge presumably was not involved seems to have turned back into a turd just at present, while the 2019 bike remains not so much in Zarco's hands last weekend. Could be other factors of course, the new Michelins not suiting Dovi or Jack, if Bagnaia was on a 2020 bike in the second race of the season.

If Dovi isn't re-signed it will continue a long line of Ducati falling out with with their best achievers, Presiozi and Stoner among them, as well as with the likes of Jorge, Melandri etc. It is hard to argue they have ever demonstrated much in the way of man management skills, and ironic that Jorge came good just after the ..... in senior management decided he was a waste of space and salary despite Gig's protestations.

One interesting thing is that KTM have moved up despite employing the steel trellis frame chassis also traditional for them, having I believe said in the past there was no need for Ducati to move away from theirs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Macca said:
Simon was on Twitter last night, he said that now he's seen the overhead helicopter view (he didn't in pit lane during the race) that he was incorrect and Zarco did nothing wrong.

I really do like Mr Crafar, sure he was a cluster .... when he first started doing the pitlane stuff, but he's 100% awesome now!

Macca
Click to expand...

I wonder sometimes whether RD make decisions on the basis of the commentary.
 
Keshav said:
Mate, I'm not saying Pedrosa wasn't part of the team. I'm saying there's been no indication from KTM that he was the guiding light, the spark of hope: One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. etc etc.
Click to expand...
Interview with Pit Beirer on GPOne

"How much did Pedrosa's development affect, what was the major step it took?"

"The biggest criticism of our bike was that only Pol could ride it. We knew it but you can't change such a situation in one night, two seconds are easily removed but when the last second comes the difficult part begins.

We wanted to make it rideable by everyone. the riders. I was not dissatisfied in 2019, Miguel and Pol were both injured.
We brought new parts to the track every week, then the time came when you have to develop the bike for the following year.

With Dani and Mika we worked a lot, but Dani gave the project a different direction. To our frame, the suspension and also the engine. Of course, we took other technicians but never copied. The bike is completely different from the previous three years ".
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
Macca said:
Interview with Pit Beirer on GPOne

"How much did Pedrosa's development affect, what was the major step it took?"

"The biggest criticism of our bike was that only Pol could ride it. We knew it but you can't change such a situation in one night, two seconds are easily removed but when the last second comes the difficult part begins.

We wanted to make it rideable by everyone. the riders. I was not dissatisfied in 2019, Miguel and Pol were both injured.
We brought new parts to the track every week, then the time came when you have to develop the bike for the following year.

With Dani and Mika we worked a lot, but Dani gave the project a different direction. To our frame, the suspension and also the engine. Of course, we took other technicians but never copied. The bike is completely different from the previous three years ".
Click to expand...

HRC must be kicking themselves for not hiring Dani as their development rider or not listening more to him once MM arrived....

Again Pol has to be having second thoughts....

KTM going forward should keep Pol happy but not letting him in to the further updates to their bike since he is gonig to the number 1 rival...
 

Similar threads

JPSLotus
At the midpoint of the season
Replies
31
Views
5K
povol
povol
B
MotoGP: 2016 Round 05 - Monster Energy Grand Prix de France (SPOILERS)
Replies
277
Views
40K
Jumkie
Jumkie
G
How much does it cost to get a ride - Aussie perspectives
Replies
64
Views
10K
Gaz
G

Recent Discussions