WSBK - Portimao - Final Round!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 25 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

2009 World Superbike Champion


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A BIG ...... + 1 brutha!!!!!!!!!1

As much as I've wanted Haga to finally win the title, my loyalties were split this year after following Spies in the AMA and wanting to see him do it in his rookie year, particularly after his MotoGP announcement. I feel sorry for Haga though.

I would like to thank Yamaha for giving me the .... to win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm2lGHSD_A0

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 25 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt theoretical discourse about the fairness of the sport is going to spare Tardozzi a beat down at the next Ducati Corse meeting. At the least, Tardozzi will be read the riot act for signing Fabi for another year.
You have to wonder what this means for Tardozzi and Fabrizio in 2011. Today's result for Fab is moot, as povol said, had Spies needed to he would have been up at the front. But Tardozzi's mismanagement of the situation put Haga in a closer battle than he needed to be in. If Tardozzi does his job and gets Fab to do his job, Haga doesn't necessarily need Spies to fall off or need him to finish as far back as seventh. If Tardozzi and Fab do their jobs, Haga needs a win (which looks like it would have been possible if he had a team and a teammate behind him) and Spies to finish fourth. It's all speculative but if those two idiots do their jobs then there is at least a bit more pressure on Spies than finishing sixth or better. Which for Spies this season, is reasonably just finishing the race.

Hats off to Spies, he did exactly what he needed to do to win the title. Off to Valencia...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 25 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Next year will be really interesting for Spies. He's won 4 championships in a row now so I wonder how he will cope with being out of contention next year?

Well, Spies always seems pretty humble, not to mention realistic.
Sure he won the championship, but just barely. Surely he's
not expecting to be on the MGP podium right from the start. Doubtless - he's been
pondering all the salient angles and the steepness of the rookie year learning
curve for some time. As has been said before - he's mentally tough. Seems
unlikely that he'll be like Jorge, trying to win the championship in his first
year. He's much more grounded than ol' Leapin' Lorenzo.
Got himself some good Texas smarts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 25 2009, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All of this Fabrizio costing Haga the title is a moot point. Spies would have done what he neede to do in race 2. I have watched this kid race for years and as i predicted,he big picture raced. He had everyone covered this weekend and if he needed a win in the second race,i have no doubt he would have gotten it. He found what he thought was a comfy spot,all by himself until Biaggi statred playing his game. Ben kept letting him by and Biaggi kept running wide to mess with his head. It was kind of a ........ thing to do on Biaggi's part,but Biaggi is a ......... Spies was not happy at all with him after the race. GONGRATS BEN,you da man.

I dunno. I haven't heard anything from post race interviews - but it sure as .... looked to me
like Spies was struggling in race 2 due set-up or tire issues. Hard to imagine Spies would
intentionally let himself be that far back in the pack.

Agreed, Biaggi is a ......... It must have killed the old fart to see the youngster from Texas
take the championship in his rookie year. If he hadn't been injured from the practice crash and
too full of painkillers - I think he would have been capable of ....... up the championship for
Spies - just out of pure spite and bad sportsmanship, and envy, knowing that Spies was moving on
next to Moto GP where Biaggi will never be seen again. Biaggi repeatedly making those sloppy passes and going wide reminded me of Hector Barbera a few years ago. Biaggi made a total ... of himself.

It is not Fabrizio's job to insure Haga gets a title. After Brno,Fabrizio was only 53 points out of the Championship lead with 4 events,8 races { 200 points available]. After Nurburgring,he was still only 57 points behind Haga for second place. After Imola he was still in the hunt, being only 58 points down to Haga for second and 61 to Spies. After watching Spies make up 88 points in quick time,there was no reason for Fabrizio not to think the same was possible for him.After all, the number one rule in racing is, beat your teammate,be it for 1st or second 3rd etc;.When he beat Haga at Imola,the dream was very much alive and its not like he nipped him at the line,he trounced the field including Haga. He would have had to basically stopped to give that race to his teammate . Like someone else said,Fabrizio gifted Haga 25 points earlier in the season,thats enough. Could Spies have broke down on the last lap,sure,its happened before, but remember, IF, if's and buts were candy and nuts,what a wonderful Christmas it would be. Fabrizio didnt cost Haga the title,he can take all the blame himself.

congrats to BEN SPIES WORLD SUPERBIKE CHAMPION 2009 !!!!!!!! well done son! well done!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 25 2009, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Next year will be really interesting for Spies. He's won 4 championships in a row now so I wonder how he will cope with being out of contention next year?
ya know lex he's set the bar fairly low for himself for next season so i think he'll have no problem copping at all. he said he's aiming for a top 8 finnish & imho i think he should be able to finnish nearer to 5th.

Congratulations Ben
.... Texas

I'm hungover. I will post when I get rid of this headache. Had a big ... BBQ with 50+ friends to watch the races at my pad. Then we started taking shots...that's when it got crazy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 25 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since 1981?

Tom you are incapable of a good discussion as 90% of regular members of this forum will bear testament to. You argue the toss because you are a tosser. You nitpick, and offer contradictory pedantic opinions which you then fail to qualify, and you never ever admit that you are wrong. You're only here as a troll - you seldom discuss or debate.


What a ....... shock.

Don't be so naive. Do you really believe that factories such as HRC and Ducati promote this? Championships are won by team tactics. It is a given that Ducati employ these, and as Hodgson said this is the norm in motorsport. Fabi had nothing to achieve in the championship by finishing first today. Are you telling me that the constructors world championship sells motorcycles in the same way that the rider championship does??? Each factory rider is employed by a team, and manufacturer, and as such are answerable to team direction. Correct, Nori didn't win the championship this the because he didn't do well enough, but he also didn't win it because Fabi took ten points off him. You are so one dimensional, you fail to see that I am not arguing in favour of team orders. Correct it isn't racing, I agree, but it is the team and factory protocol, and in that respect Tardozzi and Fabi have ...... up. Very simply Tom, what I am saying is under Tardozzi - Xuas was not allowed to take points off Bayliss in the same way as Fabi was Haga - very simply because he manages Micheal...and that isn't racing either. I'm not arguing in favour of team orders - quite the reverse, but this will reverberate around certain corridors in Bologna, and will not have done Fabi any good at all. Did you see his expression in Parc Ferme? - hardly one of elation. The record books will not discriminate, but unless he wins the title next year, someone at Ducati corse unquestionably will.

I repeat, I am not condoning team orders, I agree with your opening sentence. But you know as well as I do from watching this sport what can happen if you choose to flout them, and there is not question that Fabi would have been given a job to do today by his employers, that he elected not to do.

Expect Ducati to tirelessly petition the Flammini's throughout the entire duration of the winter once more for yet another change in the rules. The 1298 big bore is already on the drawing board in Bologna.

I haven't been following the sport since 81 but I have an inquisitive mind and love to learn thoroughly about my interests. Particularly a keen interest in the history of this sport, its very useful.

Your reply suggests you are firmly in the camp with a few of the ....... around here who think a good discussion means arguing to get your friends on board so you can get into a position to declare someone elses opinion as 'wrong'. If i use false information i will readily admit i was mistaken, but besides that i am happy to discuss (not compete with) opinions. I hope you can tell the difference, i guess we'll see.

On the subject of the team orders you have rightly identified that i am arguing from the side of the ideal. I know that team orders are huge in motorsports, there is very little that can be done about it and it is a part of the sport. However i don't think Fabrizio or Tardozzi should be critisised for not employing this method, as i mentioned before i think its admirable of them and Nori to lose in this sporting way. I appreciate that the riders are employed for the benefit of the team, but ultimately their responsibility to undertake team orders will depends totally on the contracts they have in place. If Fabi or Tardozzi have disregarded contractual obligations from higher up to use team orders then they have done wrong and should (and if true probably will be) disciplined accordingly. If not then i don't see the problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 26 2009, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dunno. I haven't heard anything from post race interviews - but it sure as .... looked to me
like Spies was struggling in race 2 due set-up or tire issues. Hard to imagine Spies would
intentionally let himself be that far back in the pack.
Agreed, Biaggi is a ......... It must have killed the old fart to see the youngster from Texas
take the championship in his rookie year. If he hadn't been injured from the practice crash and
too full of painkillers - I think he would have been capable of ....... up the championship for
Spies - just out of pure spite and bad sportsmanship, and envy, knowing that Spies was moving on
next to Moto GP where Biaggi will never be seen again. Biaggi repeatedly making those sloppy passes and going wide reminded me of Hector Barbera a few years ago. Biaggi made a total ... of himself.

I knew that if Nori won I had to be sixth, so I tried to stay out of trouble. Ben Spies

From the Yamaha Press release: With the extra points behind him and less pressure for an outright race win Spies kept himself in check for race two, monitoring Haga's position and keeping a steady race pace as he counted the laps down to victory. The American let a couple of riders passed then tucked in behind Biaggi for a number of laps. After the Italian rider ran wide a couple of times, Spies turned on some extra speed to pass him and brought his championship winning Yamaha R1 home in fifth place to take victory.

He was cruising,the commentators had to build drama,its their job. I was laughing at Steve Martin,he couldnt get his math straight to save his life. It was all calculated on Spies and Yamaha's part, Biaggi just kept ....... with the plan. ,Spies was trying his damndest to let the little ....... go and finally decided it was less dangerous to pick up the pace and drop him than have him around. If Biaggi, or anyone else is using painkillers as an excuse for his erratic riding 'i have read that as one of the excuses',that opens up a whole new can of worms. Can you imagine the fallout if it was determined that a painkiller impaired rider cost someone a championship,or WORSE. It would be interesting to know what kind of 'Painkiller' is prescribed by Clinica Mobile and what the printed side effects are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Oct 26 2009, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Congratulations Ben
.... Texas
+1, he is from Tennessee anyway!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 26 2009, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I haven't been following the sport since 81 but I have an inquisitive mind and love to learn thoroughly about my interests. Particularly a keen interest in the history of this sport, its very useful.

Your reply suggests you are firmly in the camp with a few of the ....... around here who think a good discussion means arguing to get your friends on board so you can get into a position to declare someone elses opinion as 'wrong'. If i use false information i will readily admit i was mistaken, but besides that i am happy to discuss (not compete with) opinions. I hope you can tell the difference, i guess we'll see.

On the subject of the team orders you have rightly identified that i am arguing from the side of the ideal. I know that team orders are huge in motorsports, there is very little that can be done about it and it is a part of the sport. However i don't think Fabrizio or Tardozzi should be critisised for not employing this method, as i mentioned before i think its admirable of them and Nori to lose in this sporting way. I appreciate that the riders are employed for the benefit of the team, but ultimately their responsibility to undertake team orders will depends totally on the contracts they have in place. If Fabi or Tardozzi have disregarded contractual obligations from higher up to use team orders then they have done wrong and should (and if true probably will be) disciplined accordingly. If not then i don't see the problem.
Being from Japan, winning in such a fashion would bring dishonor to the Haga clan requiring Hari Kari.

Congrats Ben Spies on a well earned WSBK championship. I honestly didn't think he would do it, but the unfortunate weekend that Haga had, coupled with Spies excellent run for Superpole and a win in race 1 sealed things up. It wasn't the epic head to head battle that everyone expected but certainly contained it's fair share of drama.

As a Haga fan I feel bad for the guy. Another year where he has taken the runner up spot. But in the end, it's the best man that should win and this year Ben was that man. Haga will be back next year, but will have stiff competition in his teammate, the new Yamaha boys (Toesland/Crutchlow), Aprilia (Biaggi), and Ten Kate (Rea/Max N). I can't wait for the 2010 season to begin!

Good luck in GP Spies. As Frost pointed out earlier, he has set some very realistic personal goals to achieve in his rookie GP season. Somewhere in the top 8. We will see how things go for him at Valencia.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 26 2009, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm hungover. I will post when I get rid of this headache. Had a big ... BBQ with 50+ friends to watch the races at my pad. Then we started taking shots...that's when it got crazy.
You should set an appointment with your OBGYN.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 26 2009, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm hungover. I will post when I get rid of this headache. Had a big ... BBQ with 50+ friends to watch the races at my pad. Then we started taking shots...that's when it got crazy.

you're so cool

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 26 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I haven't been following the sport since 81 but I have an inquisitive mind and love to learn thoroughly about my interests. Particularly a keen interest in the history of this sport, its very useful.

Your reply suggests you are firmly in the camp with a few of the ....... around here who think a good discussion means arguing to get your friends on board so you can get into a position to declare someone elses opinion as 'wrong'. If i use false information i will readily admit i was mistaken, but besides that i am happy to discuss (not compete with) opinions. I hope you can tell the difference, i guess we'll see.

On the subject of the team orders you have rightly identified that i am arguing from the side of the ideal. I know that team orders are huge in motorsports, there is very little that can be done about it and it is a part of the sport. However i don't think Fabrizio or Tardozzi should be critisised for not employing this method, as i mentioned before i think its admirable of them and Nori to lose in this sporting way. I appreciate that the riders are employed for the benefit of the team, but ultimately their responsibility to undertake team orders will depends totally on the contracts they have in place. If Fabi or Tardozzi have disregarded contractual obligations from higher up to use team orders then they have done wrong and should (and if true probably will be) disciplined accordingly. If not then i don't see the problem.
Not true Tom, I take a lone standpoint, and if members disagree, as many have over this issue, then surely that makes for more interesting discourse and rich debate. I am not looking to gather momentum by snowballing support, and am quite capable of questioning the validity of your contentions without looking for or deliberately seeking a unanimous view in my favour. It would be interesting to see who you regard as the '.......' that populate this camp that I choose to pitch my argument alongside.

To reiterate, I agree with many of the sentiments on here regarding Fabrizio - Haga lost the title, and Povol is correct in saying at the time of Imola Fabi did have an outside shot at the title - however remote this might have been. However the contention that it was not Fabrizio or Tardozzi's job to 'help' Haga secure the title is mislaid..this will not be the prevailing view in Bologna. Fabi had no intention of relinquishing first place. Had an erratic Max taken out Ben, then I concede, perhaps he would have done, but anything could have happened on the last lap, and Fabi wouldn't have realised. Very simply - he was not seen in the eyes of Ducati to be doing all he could to aid Haga, and as a teammate according to the custom and practise of this sport, and the dictat of Ducati, then he simply didn't do his job. We have seem similar favouritism before form Tardozzi directed at Regis Laconi at the expense of Toseland, while Lorenzo Lanzi, who like Fabrizio was managed by Tardozzi, should arguably have never secured the ride, and shockingly underachieved as a result.

I recently cited the Talmácsi/Kalio incident at Qatar. An extreme example, but the moment Talma slipstreamed Mika over the line his future contract negotiations with KTM were tiolet paper.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 25 2009, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would like to thank Yamaha for giving me the .... to win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm2lGHSD_A0

"i love winning a bet on TV" wonder what thats about












for the haters...He's a Texan style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
his mom was visiting Tennessee when his elbow came out