WSBK Kyalami RACE!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2009, 01:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No i would agree with your assesment of Spies being excellent and Sykes being good, he was BSB's 4th best afterall. I think he'll come good sooner or later, but he clearly hasn't had the impact Spies has. I don't agree however that you could attribute more of one riders performance to his bike than another when they are both on the same team riding the same bike.

I see where you are going, but you have to look at the points gap. This means looking past more than the previous race. Yes, if you look at Kylami, it would seem that Haga and Fabi are very close, but if you look at previous races Haga handed Fabi his .... Yet Fabi is second in the championship. Which in conclusion means at the moment he is second best rider, but still getting worked by his teammate in the overall standings.

So take this same train of thought and add it to Sykes and Spies.

We could break this down more if need be

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2009, 01:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No i would agree with your assesment of Spies being excellent and Sykes being good, he was BSB's 4th best afterall. I think he'll come good sooner or later, but he clearly hasn't had the impact Spies has. I don't agree however that you could attribute more of one riders performance to his bike than another when they are both on the same team riding the same bike.

Ok, you're half way there. So then what's your assessment of a 'good' rider on on excellent bike? You don't think the great machine will make the rider look better than he is?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 20 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I see where you are going, but you have to look at the points gap. This means looking past more than the previous race. Yes, if you look at Kylami, it would seem that Haga and Fabi are very close, but if you look at previous races Haga handed Fabi his .... Yet Fabi is second in the championship. Which in conclusion means at the moment he is second best rider, but still getting worked by his teammate in the overall standings.

So take this same train of thought and add it to Sykes and Spies.

We could break this down more if need be

clearly kyalami suited the duc so Fabi is in a position that he may not be at the end of the season. We'll see

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 20 2009, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, you're half way there. So then what's your assessment of a 'good' rider on on excellent bike? You don't think the great machine will make the rider look better than he is?

it will, but no more so than it'll make an 'excellent' rider look more excellent. I.e. Hagas lead would perhaps be smaller on less capable machinary

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2009, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>clearly kyalami suited the duc so Fabi is in a position that he may not be at the end of the season. We'll see
Personally, I think an extra 200cc to play with suits Fabi and the Duc, but being Tom you'll probably argue the toss over that as well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>clearly kyalami suited the duc so Fabi is in a position that he may not be at the end of the season. We'll see

I think all the tracks suit the Duc, or maybe the Duc suits all the tracks, not sure which way around it is.

I am surprised by Haga but more impressed with the bike. Look what it has done for Fabi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>clearly kyalami suited the duc

Yes. Agree. Finally, something 'moderately' sensible.


You know Tom, I'm starting to think you're not as dumb as you look. LINK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 20 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Personally, I think an extra 200cc to play with suits Fabi and the Duc, but being Tom you'll probably argue the toss over that as well.

That's a topic that has been covered before, and its a tough one. Do they win because the rules favour them? Or rather do they win because they are the best team attracting the best riders? It's a chicken and the egg situation.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 21 2009, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's a topic that has been covered before, and its a tough one. Do they win because the rules favour them? Or rather do they win because they are the best team attracting the best riders? It's a chicken and the egg situation.
I agree, hard to know. There is conflicting evidence on the bike vs rider thing in wsbk at the moment. Haga is winning more consistently on the ducati than he did last year on the yamaha, but spies is looking a threat for every race this year on the yamaha. Fabrizio is certainly a lot closer to the pointy end of the field in several races than he was last year, so is this due to the bike being better or to him settling into his ride and riding in a more confident and relaxed manner? It does seem indisputable that the ducati corse bike is not a bad device.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2009, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's a topic that has been covered before, and its a tough one. Do they win because the rules favour them? Or rather do they win because they are the best team attracting the best riders? It's a chicken and the egg situation.

We had a full factory Ducati effort here in the AMA. Guess how they did. Now compare this to WSBK. Rather interesting if you compare. Can you offer an explanation? Anyone?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 21 2009, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We had a full factory Ducati effort here in the AMA. Guess how they did. Now compare this to WSBK. Rather interesting if you compare. Can you offer an explanation? Anyone?
Was that Parts Unlimited Ducati Austin? That was a big effort, which drew significant backing from Bologna if I recall. Can't remember the details, but the AMA rules concerning the 999 did not give the same dispensation/favourable spec that WSBk had granted Xerox Ducati team. At that time, the Ducati's were seriously disadvantaged in America, where they have IMO always been largely favoured in WSBk. I could google as to why, and then come back and authoritatively claim to know the answer as our erstwhile engineer tends to do, but I haven't got time. I will look up and find out what the differences were though...I remember Hodgson in particular being very vocal about it.

Also Tom, I would question that Ducati have always attracted the best riders...Lorenzo Lanzi, and Michael Fabrizio certainly are/were not the best riders, (although Fabi has impressed me so far this year). One thing that they do have in common is David Tardozzi as a manager....can you spot a connection there?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 21 2009, 08:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Was that Parts Unlimited Ducati Austin? That was a big effort, which drew significant backing from Bologna if I recall. Can't remember the details, but the AMA rules concerning the 999 did not give the same dispensation/favourable spec that WSBk had granted Xerox Ducati team. At that time, the Ducati's were seriously disadvantaged in America, where they have IMO always been largely favoured in WSBk. I could google as to why, and then come back and authoritatively claim to know the answer as our erstwhile engineer tends to do, but I haven't got time. I will look up and find out what the differences were though...I remember Hodgson in particular being very vocal about it.

Also Tom, I would question that Ducati have always attracted the best riders...Lorenzo Lanzi, and Michael Fabrizio certainly are/were not the best riders, (although Fabi has impressed me so far this year). One thing that they do have in common is David Tardozzi as a manager....can you spot a connection there?

Questions that need answers:

1. Were the PartsUnlimited Ducatis of the same specs as the Xerox bikes? Not sure, but i think there were some rule differences (throttle bodies?) that kept the Boys from Bologna from being competitive in the States. I don't think it was the riders; EricBoz, Neil Hodgson and BenBoz can keep up with the Suzukis when the stars are aligned/properly tuned... (oops, that was somewhat redundant...) But, I think the reason for the unfavorable Duc specs in America have to do with the amount of influence the OTHER manufacturers have in that industry (read; Suzuki and Honda). This is why DMG wanted to take away the control the Jap4 had over AMA racing... and where, I ask, has it gotten us???

2. Do most USA tracks favor a 4cylinder setup, i.e. turns needing you to comin in hard on the brakes to scrub off speed, get it turned, then squirt out toward the next tight turn... whereas, the big twins prefer highspeed turns-n-curves?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tlrwinder @ May 21 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Questions that need answers:

1. Were the PartsUnlimited Ducatis of the same specs as the Xerox bikes? Not sure, but i think there were some rule differences (throttle bodies?) that kept the Boys from Bologna from being competitive in the States.

That was what I was thinking, and on reflection was definitely it. They had to run much smaller throttle bodies than the WSBk teams, not just because it was stipulated by the rules, but also in conjunction with differing fuel issues in the AMA. I'm sure there was something else as well...but this was the major difference that Hodgson highlighted when he moved to AMA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 21 2009, 05:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Was that Parts Unlimited Ducati Austin? That was a big effort, which drew significant backing from Bologna if I recall. Can't remember the details, but the AMA rules concerning the 999 did not give the same dispensation/favourable spec that WSBk had granted Xerox Ducati team. At that time, the Ducati's were seriously disadvantaged in America, where they have IMO always been largely favoured in WSBk. I could google as to why, and then come back and authoritatively claim to know the answer as our erstwhile engineer tends to do, but I haven't got time. I will look up and find out what the differences were though...I remember Hodgson in particular being very vocal about it.

Also Tom, I would question that Ducati have always attracted the best riders...Lorenzo Lanzi, and Michael Fabrizio certainly are/were not the best riders, (although Fabi has impressed me so far this year). One thing that they do have in common is David Tardozzi as a manager....can you spot a connection there?



You know your .... Arrab, no denying that. Yeah, basically Ducati brought a full factory effort and couldn't compete. The AMA rules were much more restrictive than the notorious Ducati Cup AKA WSBK. I think it has very little to do with the American tracks and more to do with the issue of performance restrictions. This basically speak to the domination they enjoy in WSBK; having said this, the bikes don't ride themselves. Frankly, nothing was gonna make much head way with Mladin/Spies at the helm of Yosh Suzuki here in the States.

Doug Pollen was riding around town the other day. One of my riding buddies called me up. He said you'll never guess who I was riding with the other day, Doug Pollen. I was (very ashamedly now) like who the .... is that? Now I know though. And I think that his joint holding of consecutive WSBK poles may be in Jeapardy. My buddy said he is still super fast. My buddy's daughter also babysits for Zemke's kids I think For a small ... town we aren't doing so bad

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 21 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Doug Pollen was riding around town the other day. One of my riding buddies called me up. He said you'll never guess who I was riding with the other day, Doug Pollen. I was (very ashamedly now) like who the .... is that? Now I know though. And I think that his joint holding of consecutive WSBK poles may be in Jeapardy. My buddy said he is still super fast. My buddy's daughter also babysits for Zemke's kids I think For a small ... town we aren't doing so bad

Hahaha. Funny .....

So can you score some tickets with that sitter?

just got finnished wathchin the races...... spies is snake bit... another mechanical dnf. it's gonna be reeeaaal hard to catch haga now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 23 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>just got finnished wathchin the races...... spies is snake bit... another mechanical dnf. it's gonna be reeeaaal hard to catch haga now.
Impossible really. Now its just about having a good season and getting as many wins as possible.