Will VR continue with Yam after 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 10 2009, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fact that he would create the Galina t-shirts for his championship
celebration could be taken as an indication that his concerns with the
effects of aging on his remaining seasons - are greater than he is willing to share with
the press.
Couldn't agree with you more. It appears he does have age on his mind, and not in a positive way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 10 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The whole issue of working that hard to beat his teammate must really be eating him up.
While he is arguably in his prime - we the public can't know whether Rossi himself believes
this to be so. The fact that he would create the Galina t-shirts for his championship
celebration could be taken as an indication that his concerns with the
effects of aging on his remaining seasons - are greater than he is willing to share with
the press. That he would make such an ultimatum so early in the season - might
be a canny strategy to force Yamaha to consider their decision at length; a decision
that could potentially backfire if the younger Lorenzo shows steady improvement in the coming season. That Rossi would make such an ultimatum publicly - shows, in my opinion -
a bizarre lack of discretion - unless he's done this in the expectation that all his friends on
Facebook are going to deluge Yamaha with Twitters of support.
Some posters on the forum may disagree, but I would contend that rossi whilst amazingly good is actually still human, and that having bet the farm as far as he personally was concerned by leaving honda and having delivered yamaha from the wilderness may be feeling some disappointment they are even vaguely considering replacing him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Nov 10 2009, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Still, what I do not understand is why Rossi is putting so much stress on this subject NOW... What's the use? He has one more season to live with Lorenzo, and of course Yamaha's "decision" can happen only after June 2010 and would very much depend on results... If he can beat Lorenzo again in 2010, the problem would kind of dissolve... If he can't, of course Yamaha would choose Lorenzo. So why asking Yam to take a decision now?

That's easy to answere:
1. First of all he want controll over the developemnt. As it has been since the autumn '03 he, burgess and yamaha has taken the important desition over development together. It's unclear if Yamaha have given Lorenzo some contractual rights of desition in this area fro 2010.
2. For him to stay with Yamaha beyond 2010 he expect Yamaha to show their commitment to Rossi now.
In effect what he says is that he is willing to commit now for a new contract but only if he is still clearly the first rider. To him it is of no importance how they do it. Openly supporting Rossi, not fulfilling Lorenzos contract or hidden, making sure it's Rossi's opinions that carry any weight when important development desitions are made and making sure he still have the best team with the best support technitions (Øhlins, MM, B.Stone...) and so on.
He will be very unhappy with Yamaha if their situation are typical Honda - post Rossi situation: Two or more riders fighting for input to development and no clear direction and no clear #1 rider. A 2010 like that and he would be ready to leave by June.
Yamaha have some difficult moths ahead

Spies performance may next spring may weigh heavily on Yamahas' decision for the future. If Ben brings the goods, and shows true potential, it may set up a Lorenzo/Spies ticket. Both young, both with long futures. I see Rossi wearing red in 2011...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 10 2009, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>People consider this an 'unfair' situation as 'why should one rider benefit so greatly from the work of others' seems to be the line taken.
Speaking for myself only, it's not about others benefitting but IF others that have been benefitting should now be allowed to take part in the next level of development?
Make no misstake, there are also two others heavily involved here, Rossi's and Lorenzo's chief engineers and they have, or more correctly Lorenzo's chief engineer have his own ambitions. Burgess have fulfilled more abitions than anyone can dream of so he is probably more relaxed about it
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>But the question remains.

Is Rossi himself to blame as if he had not been part to developing a machine so 'all round rideable' then would he be in such a 'threatened' position?
Again my answere must deviate from the question.
Rossi's ability is to ride and communicate, not acutally develop. Burgess are the man who interpert Rossis impression from track into engineering tasks. Setup adjustments or changes more into the development section, allthough that's where Yamaha must take over to make new parts. This seems to work very well in Yamaha and I think it's an important part of why Rossi feel strongly about staying with Yamaha.

My guess is that Rossi think/know this is a fragile chain of information going back and forth. A third party mixing into this would unnerve him, not because of the competition but because it will unsettle the development cycles. He would probably expect both him and Lorenzo to fail next year if Lorenzo get to much into the mix.

The short version of the answere is that Rossi is victim of Burgess ability to develop an allraound ridable machine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Nov 10 2009, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Still, what I do not understand is why Rossi is putting so much stress on this subject NOW... What's the use? He has one more season to live with Lorenzo, and of course Yamaha's "decision" can happen only after June 2010 and would very much depend on results... If he can beat Lorenzo again in 2010, the problem would kind of dissolve... If he can't, of course Yamaha would choose Lorenzo. So why asking Yam to take a decision now?

Speculation for a sillier than silly 2010 Season?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 10 2009, 06:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree... wow, I was gonna quote and reply to the same posts!

I believe, as in any good marketing/lobbying plan, you want to plant the seed early and bring the campaign to fruition closer to the deadline...

Yeah, perhaps planting the seed early!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 10 2009, 06:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The whole issue of working that hard to beat his teammate must really be eating him up.
While he is arguably in his prime - we the public can't know whether Rossi himself believes
this to be so. The fact that he would create the Galina t-shirts for his championship
celebration could be taken as an indication that his concerns with the
effects of aging on his remaining seasons - are greater than he is willing to share with
the press. That he would make such an ultimatum so early in the season - might
be a canny strategy to force Yamaha to consider their decision at length; a decision
that could potentially backfire if the younger Lorenzo shows steady improvement in the coming season. That Rossi would make such an ultimatum publicly - shows, in my opinion -
a bizarre lack of discretion - unless he's done this in the expectation that all his friends on
Facebook are going to deluge Yamaha with Twitters of support.

Was this similar to what happened to Doohan? I would not really know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 10 2009, 06:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Couldn't agree with you more. It appears he does have age on his mind, and not in a positive way.

Still is in top of the game winning everything there was to win actually, with less wins all around. But also could be that fighting against several (3) fast riders got a bit more complicated than Seasons where it used to be only one real adversary. I million and one variables.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 10 2009, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's easy to answere:
1. First of all he want controll over the developemnt. As it has been since the autumn '03 he, burgess and yamaha has taken the important desition over development together. It's unclear if Yamaha have given Lorenzo some contractual rights of desition in this area fro 2010.
2. For him to stay with Yamaha beyond 2010 he expect Yamaha to show their commitment to Rossi now.
In effect what he says is that he is willing to commit now for a new contract but only if he is still clearly the first rider. To him it is of no importance how they do it. Openly supporting Rossi, not fulfilling Lorenzos contract or hidden, making sure it's Rossi's opinions that carry any weight when important development desitions are made and making sure he still have the best team with the best support technitions (Øhlins, MM, B.Stone...) and so on.
He will be very unhappy with Yamaha if their situation are typical Honda - post Rossi situation: Two or more riders fighting for input to development and no clear direction and no clear #1 rider. A 2010 like that and he would be ready to leave by June.
Yamaha have some difficult moths ahead

I think so too, Rossi wants #1 control over development among other things. With the last quote underneath it would be more like Burguess (& Rossi) wants #1 control.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 10 2009, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The short version of the answere is that Rossi is victim of Burgess ability to develop an allraound ridable machine.

This points better than what Gaz and I mention about 'victim of his own success'. More like victim of a whole Team (mainly Burguess) success. Which by the way also happened at Honda, so they may not want to commit same errors Honda maid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 10 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's easy to answere:
1. First of all he want controll over the developemnt. As it has been since the autumn '03 he, burgess and yamaha has taken the important desition over development together. It's unclear if Yamaha have given Lorenzo some contractual rights of desition in this area fro 2010.
2. For him to stay with Yamaha beyond 2010 he expect Yamaha to show their commitment to Rossi now.
In effect what he says is that he is willing to commit now for a new contract but only if he is still clearly the first rider. To him it is of no importance how they do it. Openly supporting Rossi, not fulfilling Lorenzos contract or hidden, making sure it's Rossi's opinions that carry any weight when important development desitions are made and making sure he still have the best team with the best support technitions (Øhlins, MM, B.Stone...) and so on.
He will be very unhappy with Yamaha if their situation are typical Honda - post Rossi situation: Two or more riders fighting for input to development and no clear direction and no clear #1 rider. A 2010 like that and he would be ready to leave by June.
Yamaha have some difficult moths ahead

All true. I don't doubt that, but he is giving a kind of public ultimatum to Yamaha and I'm sure the Japanese do not like that. Not the best way to obtain something from them, since they cannot lose face, ever. Rossi knows them, in 2003 he toed very much the line with Honda until he decided to go. So, may this aut-aut tone mean he has, actually, already decided to go?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 10 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think so too, Rossi wants #1 control over development among other things. With the last quote underneath it would be more like Burguess (& Rossi) wants #1 control.

I see no reason why Burgess would want to give away the developemnt. It goes quite a lot pride into what he has done so he would of course want to keep it for himself (and Rossi) and he has allready hinted about what he think of up-commers that want to take over the show.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>This points better than what Gaz and I mention about 'victim of his own success'. More like victim of a whole Team (mainly Burguess) success. Which by the way also happened at Honda, so they may not want to commit same errors Honda maid.

True, victim of the team success as a whole with Brugess as the main one to "blame" as he create a bike not only suting Rossi's particular style but with a very sound base geometry and easy to set up base handling. It all makes a lot of sense to do that even if he is working for just one rider. Changing rules and conditions will allwyas be easier to handle with a generally good bike compared to a specialized bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 10 2009, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some posters on the forum may disagree, but I would contend that rossi whilst amazingly good is actually still human, and that having bet the farm as far as he personally was concerned by leaving honda and having delivered yamaha from the wilderness may be feeling some disappointment they are even vaguely considering replacing him.

Like other riders before him, (if Vale doesn't already know from reading the bios of champions past)
he's no doubt having epiphanies about the elastic quality of Japanese loyalty and how far it can be
expected to stretch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VTtwinner @ Nov 10 2009, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies performance may next spring may weigh heavily on Yamahas' decision for the future. If Ben brings the goods, and shows true potential, it may set up a Lorenzo/Spies ticket. Both young, both with long futures. I see Rossi wearing red in 2011...

I (like most of us) have contemplated this possibility - but when I saw it posted here
by you - a switch flipped in my brain and what came out was; But is Burgess ready,
willing and able at this late time in his life, to start developing the Ducati? He's made
noise before about his eventual retirement and my gut says, this would be a lot to ask
- and I don't think Rossi would rush into the arms of Big Red without Burgess by his side.

Haha i find this all quite funny. We have practically a year before everything is finalised for 2011 and yet we are already debating it!
I think Vale is very annoyed at Yamaha for keeping Lorenzo and having to share data on a bike he "made". The interview with BBC's Suzi Perry on Sunday confirmed that he is not 100% sticking with Yamaha and it does all depend if he beats Lorenzo next year and if Yamaha keep him. A lot of contracts are up next year and i think that we might be seeing him in red. I hope so at least!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VTtwinner @ Nov 10 2009, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies performance may next spring may weigh heavily on Yamahas' decision for the future. If Ben brings the goods, and shows true potential, it may set up a Lorenzo/Spies ticket. Both young, both with long futures. I see Rossi wearing red in 2011...

Sort of agree with this and was thinking along the same lines myself. There can be no doubting what GOAT has achieved, not just on the track, but off it. Would there be as many people watching Motogp ( and visiting forums like this ) if Vale hadn't arrived on the scene. Probably not.
Rossi is a PR man's dream. Highly marketable, charismatic and at the peak of his powers. This probably sells Yamaha a lot of bikes.
Rossi ain't gonna ride on forever and now Yam has the chance to develop two more very talented and marketable riders in #99 and #11 which will help them to continue to sell bikes for the foreseeable future.
I don't think for one minute that they would want Rossi to leave, but what if Spies has a great rookie season and starts talking about needing a factory ride to progress to the next level. Rossi, Horhey and Spies all on factory Yams? Certainly possible, but we all know how aggreaved #46 has been this year with Horhey riding a bike developed by him.

Just not sure Vale would make the Ducati move....Actually I don't know what I think. Goodbye

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 10 2009, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Couldn't agree with you more. It appears he does have age on his mind, and not in a positive way.
I think the 09 celebration was just another great vr spin, and actually quite a big slap in the face for all of his main 'much younger' rivals, for I'm sure jl, cs and pedders don't need anymore reminding of how much he's done and how long he's been around at the top, but of course vr reminded them, it's all mental, look at bayliss

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 11 2009, 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the 09 celebration was just another great vr spin, and actually quite a big slap in the face for all of his main 'much younger' rivals, for I'm sure jl, cs and pedders don't need anymore reminding of how much he's done and how long he's been around at the top, but of course vr reminded them, it's all mental, look at bayliss

I agree
I fail too see how being the old rooster taking the championship is bad compared to the chickens following him
Your Milage May Vary

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (undeadprincess @ Nov 10 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Haha i find this all quite funny. We have practically a year before everything is finalised for 2011 and yet we are already debating it!
I think Vale is very annoyed at Yamaha for keeping Lorenzo and having to share data on a bike he "made". The interview with BBC's Suzi Perry on Sunday confirmed that he is not 100% sticking with Yamaha and it does all depend if he beats Lorenzo next year and if Yamaha keep him. A lot of contracts are up next year and i think that we might be seeing him in red. I hope so at least!
You failed to mention the biggest FU to Vale from Yamaha. Vale wanted only to sign a one year deal. THey said NO. Jorge got one year. Vale said WTF? SO it started. To an Italian you just don't do that type of .... especially when you make the bike that sucked ... great. So Vale is really feeling it and my guess is that he said if you want me get rid of Livio Suppo and put in my buddy Vito. Then keep the chair warm for me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (undeadprincess @ Nov 10 2009, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Haha i find this all quite funny. We have practically a year before everything is finalised for 2011 and yet we are already debating it!
I think Vale is very annoyed at Yamaha for keeping Lorenzo and having to share data on a bike he "made". The interview with BBC's Suzi Perry on Sunday confirmed that he is not 100% sticking with Yamaha and it does all depend if he beats Lorenzo next year and if Yamaha keep him. A lot of contracts are up next year and i think that we might be seeing him in red. I hope so at least!

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%<span style="color:#ff0000FIAT Marlboro Yamaha?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Nov 11 2009, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then keep the chair<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%S warm for me.

For all my Team, warm chair<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%S for US?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 27 2009, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I really hope that Valentino comes over to his heritage and homeland team. There is no need to continue with Yamaha since they are clearly in the Jorge camp and looking towards the future. The japanese have no care or aligence to anyone except themselves and that has been seen time after time. If there is one company that does sorta break that mold I would have to say it is Yamaha but they are still rooted in the japanese way. The Italian way is more passionate and with a flair for the fun and outgoing, this is Valentino. So Vale' time to come home just like Ago did when he wanted to finish out his career with MV Agusta. You know Ducati will give you anything you want and not sign your teammate to a deal you wanted. Ducati knows loyalty and rewards it as well. You know your blood is calling you, that is why the Factory ducati is always painted DUcati blood red!!!!!!!!


I like this post of yours very much,
your right, i think also it's time for him to do something nice for his country factory, but i myself like to see that because of 2 things.

1. To see if he can also ride Ducati the way Casey does, or is Casey really the first and the last one to win from that wild bike.

2- and this one is even more important for me, to see how he and Casey fight and who will beat the other, and i dont mean it in a few gp's or only for 1 year, but at least 2 years.


But will Ducati be able to manage Casey and Vale the way they both be glad ? because yamaha
could manage Rossi and Lorenzo very good, and we all know that it's not always that easy to manage

the top rivals or the championship rivals, but even with Yamaha management we see what is begining to happen with what Rossi said last week. (tough i find it arrogant but normal)

So Since last month that we all heard about his move to Duc, i think about it. and for him is also good that in the end of his history to achive something with his people and i can now already feel what they will do for him, in Mugello and Mizano when all the people will come in RED.

so let's hope he does that afte this year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smosher34 @ Nov 12 2009, 08:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think rossi is out of order making them choose yamaha pays his wages to ride and develope the bike so he should do that ! jorge has helped rossi raise his game this year and pushed him on so for once i say he is out of order !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The great shame of Rossi is that he spins far too much influence off track. The single tyre Bridgestone event should have been enough of an example.

Rossi can race and yes he is a great rider but how many rule changes (apart from safety issues) did Doohan/Rainey/Criville/Roberts (snr & jnr)/Gardner/Schwantz et al bring in to suit just their own purposes?

Rossi needs to take his medicine and if he doesn't like it he still has Ducati, Suzuki, Kawasaki (they would make a comeback for Rossi) to go. Honda might even take him back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (undeadprincess @ Nov 10 2009, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Haha i find this all quite funny. We have practically a year before everything is finalised for 2011 and yet we are already debating it!
I think Vale is very annoyed at Yamaha for keeping Lorenzo and having to share data on a bike he "made". The interview with BBC's Suzi Perry on Sunday confirmed that he is not 100% sticking with Yamaha and it does all depend if he beats Lorenzo next year and if Yamaha keep him. A lot of contracts are up next year and i think that we might be seeing him in red. I hope so at least!


What are you talking about? As a PAID rider you WORK for the team, in this case Yamaha. Rossi should quit his whining and just accept his role, but no he is too big headed for that. Yeah the guy does deserve to have some say in what's going on in the garage given his talent, but for him to act as if the world revolves around him is a big freakin' joke. I'm just glad WhoreHey! Lorenzo got another shot next year at beating him on the same equipment before Rossi retires.

And oh yeah undeadprincess..... your number please.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rossiofsky @ Nov 12 2009, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like this post of yours very much,
your right, i think also it's time for him to do something nice for his country factory, but i myself like to see that because of 2 things.

1. To see if he can also ride Ducati the way Casey does, or is Casey really the first and the last one to win from that wild bike.

2- and this one is even more important for me, to see how he and Casey fight and who will beat the other, and i dont mean it in a few gp's or only for 1 year, but at least 2 years.


But will Ducati be able to manage Casey and Vale the way they both be glad ? because yamaha
could manage Rossi and Lorenzo very good, and we all know that it's not always that easy to manage

the top rivals or the championship rivals, but even with Yamaha management we see what is begining to happen with what Rossi said last week. (tough i find it arrogant but normal)

So Since last month that we all heard about his move to Duc, i think about it. and for him is also good that in the end of his history to achive something with his people and i can now already feel what they will do for him, in Mugello and Mizano when all the people will come in RED.

so let's hope he does that afte this year.

Rossi would probably take the lustre off his great career by moving to Ducati. If Stoner is still there I can only see one victor. If Casey moves to Honda and Jorge is at Yamaha, Rossi will look really bad. He will NOT make the move. there is too much at risk! I,ve read elsewhere that fans believe that Rossi can ride anything (you too Michael! -at your diplomatic best/worst). There is little evidence to support this supposition and slightly more to oppose it. He will not do it (well maybe if Hayden starts to podium regularly!)