Will VR continue with Yam after 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 20 2009, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly as Tom stated. But most oddly against every Rider that rode the 500cc two strokers… Most Riders whom stated somewhere and somehow that those machines were the most evil ever built by mankind.

By the way Bunyip, Rossi did win in a Championship in a 500cc two stroker with much less electronics as today's bikes. There is your prove again, denying it is just delusional, you sound like Tom saying they were friendly rides.



Bla, bla, bla… Been there, done that… Why would Rossi even give a damn? In his younger days Rossi challenged mighty Honda and succeeded. So stop trying to make it look like the all mighty challenge for him, it is not. Been there, done that… Thank you.

Perhaps Lorenzo has something to prove at Ducati. Then again Stoner should try out changing to Suzuki and achieve something similar to what Rossi already did, why not? I won't believe Stoner is that good until he proves this at Suzuki (You did not like that one did you?). Pedrosa is out of the question if you ask me.



A move from Stoner to Suzuki would put his reputation at stake, until he even signs, the more time it takes the more it appears he has doubts about it. I mean, wouldn't this be as tough decision as going against the All Mighty Honda back in 2003? Just my opinion.

Back to you, over…

I think you are being a bit uneven with the challenge! The current Suzuki is a backmarker, whereas the 04 Yamaha was only a smidge away from being competitive. All the same, I,d be curious to see what lap times Casey could do on the zook.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 21 2009, 03:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When recounting all the various bikes that Rossi rode to victory, I know of none that would have rendered Melandri a backmarker. Find me one and I will recant , renounce all my Rossi-doubting and grovel in front of the Rossiboppers. I doubt that I will have to ,though........
Marco whilst very talented had been known to drop his bundle when the planets did not align for him prior to his ducati misadventure; he didn't go particularly well on a yamaha either. If you want to call stoner's talent exceptional I will be close to the head of the queue to agree with you, but capirossi's performance on the ducati 800 is in my view a more valid reference standard. Casey obviously did very well to be so clearly superior to a rider of loris's quality on the same bike, but you would expect rossi to be better than loris as well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 20 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I really hope you're just trolling for Bunyip. You don't actually believe today's GSV-R is equal to the 2004 M1, do you?

Just trolling back and forwards bro! The part "You did not like that one did you?" in brackets towards Bunyip gives it away.

But I definitely do not believe this one either Austin:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 20 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He doesn't have that 2004 domination anymore. Jorge Dani and Casey can offer a hell of a lot more than Max or Sete or Loris ever did.

Anyway... Wow Bunyip:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 20 2009, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When recounting all the various bikes that Rossi rode to victory, I know of none that would have rendered Melandri a backmarker. <u>Find me one and I will recant , renounce all my Rossi-doubting and grovel in front of the Rossiboppers</u>. I doubt that I will have to ,though........

2004 Fortuna Gauloises Tech 3 Yamaha - Melandri was 12th.
2003 Fortuna Yamaha Team - Melandri was 15th.

Man you make it easy Bunyip… Just not to be so mean on my side and look for the groveling:

2008 Ducati Marlboro Team - Melandri was 17th, which is a bit nastier.

Still 12th and 15th are 'backmarkers' in anyone's measures!

Side Note: Austin… Do you see why I was trolling for Bunyip?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 20 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Marco whilst very talented had been known to drop his bundle when the planets did not align for him prior to his ducati misadventure; he didn't go particularly well on a yamaha either


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 20 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you want to call stoner's talent exceptional I will be close to the head of the queue to agree with you, but capirossi's performance on the ducati 800 is in my view a more valid reference standard. Casey obviously did very well to be so clearly superior to a rider of loris's quality on the same bike, but you would expect rossi to be better than loris as well.

Not on my view Michael, Capirossi is not a more valid reference because he was getting old, very old for the sport after 2007, and back then he still was doing ok and winning races on the Ducati. And what has Capirossi really achieved that is outstanding in Top Class in general?

VHMP You had me a bit worried there for a bit until I remembered that in those years there were probably 24 + riders on the grid , so 12-15th was a mid pack result then

"And what has Capirossi really achieved that is outstanding in Top Class in general?"

Well, he went very close to winning the championship till a Gibernau collision injured him severely.
You,re doing even worse than me on the motogp history!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 20 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>VHMP You had me a bit worried there for a bit until I remembered that in those years there were probably 24 + riders on the grid , so 12-15th was a mid pack result then

I ain’t mean mate… But you can say I was close, 2nd is the first one to lose (so they say), but definitely out of Top Ten starts being a backer even if they fit 40 riders… I’ll let go as a back mid-packer bro!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 20 2009, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"And what has Capirossi really achieved that is outstanding in Top Class in general?"

Well, he went very close to winning the championship till a Gibernau collision injured him severely.
You,re doing even worse than me on the motogp history!

Very Close to… till. Means a ‘Not’ really outstanding achievement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 21 2009, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not on my view Michael, Capirossi is not a more valid reference because he was getting old, very old for the sport after 2007, and back then he still was doing ok and winning races on the Ducati. And what has Capirossi really achieved that is outstanding in Top Class in general?
Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes, but I thought I was agreeing with you more than bunyip on this particular point, and implying that capirossi whilst much better than average would be expected to be mostly beaten on the same bike by rossi as he was by stoner; I did not raise the matter of which rider (stoner or rossi) would exceed him by the greatest margin. My point was that capirossi whilst beaten by stoner in 2007 was much closer to him than melandri in 2008.

As bunyip said after your post loris was in strong contention for the title before an accident which he did not cause only one year prior to 2007, and has I believe won 8 or so premier class races.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 20 2009, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just trolling back and forwards bro! The part "You did not like that one did you?" in brackets towards Bunyip gives it away.

Side Note: Austin… Do you see why I was trolling for Bunyip?
Just had to make sure. I can certainly understand why.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 21 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you are being a bit uneven with the challenge! The current Suzuki is a backmarker, whereas the 04 Yamaha was only a smidge away from being competitive. All the same, I,d be curious to see what lap times Casey could do on the zook.

QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 20 2009, 04:10 PM)
I really hope you're just trolling for Bunyip. You don't actually believe today's GSV-R is equal to the 2004 M1, do you?

Well why am I weighing in on this obvious drivel? WTFKs, but here it is...

The CURRENT ('09) Suzi should be compared to the '03 Yamaha before Burgess and Rossi got their hands on it... A much more salient comparison.

That would result in the following direct comparison:
Top rider/bike 2003 - rossi/Honda 357 points
Top Yamaha 2003 - Checa 123 points
Point differential - 234

Top rider/bike 2009 - rossi/Yamaha 306 points
Top Suzuki 2009 - (old man) loris 110 points
Point differential - 196

Clearly the move from Honda to Yamaha by Rossi in 2004 was a more difficult move than a Stoner move to Suzuki would be in 2010 - based on the fact that the Suzuki WAS closer to the sharp end in '09 than the Yamaha was in '03... Roughly 20% better in fact.

Keep castin' Bunny...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 21 2009, 03:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>PS. You have extravagant taste in wines. I aspire to fine wines, but since the sharemarket crash, have been reduced to living off Chateau Cardboard mostly, and selling 2 of my 3 toys. I suppose that makes me a loser in Talpas eyes!
Explains my apparently bitter and twisted current demeanour?????????
Thats why I come here to cheer myself up.
I only drink red wine for the health benefits of course , and pinot reputedly has the most flavonoids or whatever.

My local wine shop has dropped the price of the rocky knoll considerably, perhaps because they were not selling any due to the aforementioned recession. Any burgundy of equivalent quality is certainly far more expensive, not that I have partaken of much.

What is the apocryphal quote anyway?; " I spent most of my fortune on women and alcohol, and wasted the rest".

Farrrrcccckkk again Bunny.........this thread is even more hilarious, obviously you enjoy losing too much........that was a my scientific anal-sis, as you are speaking directly through your sphincter!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 21 2009, 06:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 20 2009, 04:10 PM)
I really hope you're just trolling for Bunyip. You don't actually believe today's GSV-R is equal to the 2004 M1, do you?

Well why am I weighing in on this obvious drivel? WTFKs, but here it is...

The CURRENT ('09) Suzi should be compared to the '03 Yamaha before Burgess and Rossi got their hands on it... A much more salient comparison.

That would result in the following direct comparison:
Top rider/bike 2003 - rossi/Honda 357 points
Top Yamaha 2003 - Checa 123 points
Point differential - 234

Top rider/bike 2009 - rossi/Yamaha 306 points
Top Suzuki 2009 - (old man) loris 110 points
Point differential - 196

Clearly the move from Honda to Yamaha by Rossi in 2004 was a more difficult move than a Stoner move to Suzuki would be in 2010 - based on the fact that the Suzuki WAS closer to the sharp end in '09 than the Yamaha was in '03... Roughly 20% better in fact.

Keep castin' Bunny...

you took into consideration the shrinking grids too right?

and based that on how far (in time, not finishing positions) the suzooks were from the winners?

damn, statistics can be useful and useless in equal measure, just depends on how you interpret them dont it?

I'd say the twenty percent would cover the shrinking grid... we'll call it equal.

Yup, stats are excellent at clouding the facts... four outta five members agree

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 20 2009, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The m1 in December 03 was cursed for all riders! Short memory.....
And the M1 in '04 which ran Rossi's chosen engine configuration and was essentially rebuilt for him was a very different incarnation to the animal in line screamer imposed upon Melandri, Checa, Barros, Biaggi et al. The damn thing had been developed by Li' John fer Chrissakes - it was hardly gonna be user friendly and an even disposition. VALENTINO ROSSI WOULD NOT HAVE WON A TITLE ON THIS BIKE FAR LESS A RACE The four new engine options were not on offer to Valentino's predecessors! Short memory....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Nov 21 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And the M1 in '04 which ran Rossi's chosen engine configuration and was essentially rebuilt for him was a very different incarnation to the animal in line screamer imposed upon Melandri, Checa, Barros, Biaggi et al. The damn thing had been developed by Li' John fer Chrissakes - it was hardly gonna be user friendly and an even disposition. VALENTINO ROSSI WOULD NOT HAVE WON A TITLE ON THIS BIKE FAR LESS A RACE The four new engine options were not on offer to Valentino's predecessors! Short memory....


So I wonder what the future (possible past) would have looked like if he went to Suzuki with Jerry Burgess and what was basically an unlimited budget.

I wonder what would happen if any of the top 4 went to Suzuki with their choice of team and engineers and an open chequebook?

The GFC will have killed that possibility but its worth pondering....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 21 2009, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 20 2009, 04:10 PM)
I really hope you're just trolling for Bunyip. You don't actually believe today's GSV-R is equal to the 2004 M1, do you?

Well why am I weighing in on this obvious drivel? WTFKs, but here it is...

The CURRENT ('09) Suzi should be compared to the '03 Yamaha before Burgess and Rossi got their hands on it... A much more salient comparison.

That would result in the following direct comparison:
Top rider/bike 2003 - rossi/Honda 357 points
Top Yamaha 2003 - Checa 123 points
Point differential - 234

Top rider/bike 2009 - rossi/Yamaha 306 points
Top Suzuki 2009 - (old man) loris 110 points
Point differential - 196

Clearly the move from Honda to Yamaha by Rossi in 2004 was a more difficult move than a Stoner move to Suzuki would be in 2010 - based on the fact that the Suzuki WAS closer to the sharp end in '09 than the Yamaha was in '03... Roughly 20% better in fact.
Keep castin' Bunny...

I love some data on any matter… makes it Scientific, unlike 'gossip' threads just called 'Scientific'. Still numbers, though:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 21 2009, 05:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd say the twenty percent would cover the shrinking grid... we'll call it equal.

Yup, stats are excellent at clouding the facts... four outta five members agree



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 21 2009, 06:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So I wonder what the future (possible past) would have looked like if he went to Suzuki with Jerry Burgess and what was basically an unlimited budget.

I wonder what would happen if any of the top 4 went to Suzuki <u>with their choice of team and engineers and an open chequebook</u>?

The GFC will have killed that possibility but its worth pondering....

Back to my point ... (So I'll use the standings)

Rossi: Been there, done that, why would he give a damn?

Lorenzo: Would have something to prove on a move to an inferior factory.

Pedrosa: Sorry botsy, I don't think he would achieve anything.

Stoner: Would have something to prove on a move to an inferior factory.

And as Roo mentioned: "with their choice of team and engineers and an open chequebook" $$$.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Nov 21 2009, 05:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And the M1 in '04 which ran Rossi's chosen engine configuration and was essentially rebuilt for him was a very different incarnation to the animal in line screamer imposed upon Melandri, Checa, Barros, Biaggi et al. The damn thing had been developed by Li' John fer Chrissakes - it was hardly gonna be user friendly and an even disposition. VALENTINO ROSSI WOULD NOT HAVE WON A TITLE ON THIS BIKE <u>FAR LESS A RACE</u> The four new engine options were not on offer to Valentino's predecessors! Short memory....

Biaggi won 2 races in 2002 on it. Come on Arrab.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 21 2009, 08:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Biaggi won 2 races in 2002 on it.
My point exactly. How many race wins do Suzuki have in the four stroke era? One? Today's Suzuki is nowhere near as competitive as the 2003 M1. Suzuki didn't even take a podium this season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 21 2009, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Biaggi won 2 races in 2002 on it. Come on Arrab.
Apologies, and a fair point..that was a bit extreme. Yeah, I concede that Vale could have won races on the thing, but no way could he have secured a championship. But as I recall Max won at Brno which is one of his his favorite circuits, and was still considered a Yamaha track back then. But the bike was possessed, and it was only Mr Yoda that was eventually called in to act as an 'exorcist' together with a blank cheque book once Brivio had secured Vale's signature. The resources thrown at the M1 project once Valentino was onboard were huge, and where hitherto, the previous incumbents had very little say on development and the bike was the boss, - Rossi and Burgess almost had carte blanche to take the bike where they wanted it.

Suffice to say it was a very different beast to the animal that Max had to tame. I remember when it first appeared for a couple of demo laps at Catalunya in '01. The instant Katsuaki Fujiwara rode it out of pit lane, banging popping and spitting venemously on the overrun I remember thinking that Max was going to have his hands full - an wondering why on earth Yamaha had elected to run an in line screamer. In contrast, when the RC211v appeared at Suzuka I think, demoed by Freddie and Doohan, it looked like my then nine year old daughter could probably ride the thing - and win.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Nov 21 2009, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And the M1 in '04 which ran Rossi's chosen engine configuration and was essentially rebuilt for him was a very different incarnation to the animal in line screamer imposed upon Melandri, Checa, Barros, Biaggi et al. The damn thing had been developed by Li' John fer Chrissakes - it was hardly gonna be user friendly and an even disposition. VALENTINO ROSSI WOULD NOT HAVE WON A TITLE ON THIS BIKE FAR LESS A RACE The four new engine options were not on offer to Valentino's predecessors! Short memory....

Maybe, but my point was it was cursed for all riders! Thank you for agreeing and adding some Rossi hate in, didn't ask for that......

Aren't the riders suppose to develop the bike so they can win on it? Checa, Barros and Biaggi all came with big dollars and lots of experience, do you think that Yamaha only wanted to start winning after they signed VR?
How do you know the engine options weren't available to the others, and when they were in 04, why was VR still the only one to win on it ?

Bias Memory.....