Why the hate on Casey?

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We asked david emmett last year what the attitude of the paddock was to his (now possibly former) practice antics. His reply was that people thought he had a point about the closing speed thing but that he was being a .... about it, which is about the right call imo.



You make liking Stoner easy. The other guys, not so much.
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Hahaha, actually Mike, I was thinking about this the other day. Btw, this will be my last post on this ...... thread. But before, there was this great segment on the radio about tribalism the other day. Long story short, turns out, most of us have a strong unconscious perception of agreeing with the people or things we associate ourselves with. Its actually a very sophisticated person who can stay relatively unbias. Made me think I've been a bit too hard on the new crop of members (neobops as I call them) who refuse to recognize any flaws with Stoner, since perhaps they do not have the capacity or sophistication to recognize their primitive tribalism. Sucks too because as I said in another post, its this affect that is partly to blame for the negativity Casey gets (that and as you say, some Rossi fans will never like him, though I submit, it goes the same for some Stoner fans). I may be no better since I find myself affected by this as well. They've managed to turn a minor character flaw of either Casey or Vale (if thats what we can call it, though I'd rather just call it being human) into a never ending cesspool of contention for which I've been part of as well as sucked into myself.
 
The only thing you know about Casey is that you are in love with him. You know .... all about him.
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Hey Jumkie not every fan / supporter is a Stalker like you are, im surprised Hayden has not got a Restraining Order against you yet.

You ever think some of these guys would like to keep some parts of there lives private, im a Stoner fan a bit mad but im only interested in his racing life i know nearly all i need to about his racing. I beleive some things should be private, unlike you Stalking Nicky evertime he is home..
 
It is claimed that fans of Stoner can not recognise flaws in him. What a load of ......... What the problem is is that people who don't like him talk of nothing but his flaws. There is constant load of garbage sprouted by fans equally biased AGAINST Stoner in every thread. Read anything from mindless drongos such as Talpa who claim crap such as Stoner is the cause of every incident he is involved in. It is like Stoner is controlling by remote, riders who are strolling on the race line or blocking in order to get a tow. Sounds about as plausible as muslims claiming that woman cause their own .... by what they wear. Ask Marquez how he feels about slow riders on the race line. Maybe Stoner was using his remote that day as well.



Maybe every thread should turn into why Hayden has been filling a seat for so long when really he should only be a test rider and let a real race rider take his spot considering he has so little self confidence that he allows himself to be a donkey season in season out. Then we would see how emotionally intelligent the forum drunk is. We know that would never happen because Hayden is basically irrelevant. At least Stoner fans are arguing about and for someone who is actually relevant to MotoGP rather than some donkey making up the numbers.
 
You make liking Stoner easy. The other guys, not so much.
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Hahaha, actually Mike, I was thinking about this the other day. Btw, this will be my last post on this ...... thread. But before, there was this great segment on the radio about tribalism the other day. Long story short, turns out, most of us have a strong unconscious perception of agreeing with the people or things we associate ourselves with. Its actually a very sophisticated person who can stay relatively unbias. Made me think I've been a bit too hard on the new crop of members (neobops as I call them) who refuse to recognize any flaws with Stoner, since perhaps they do not have the capacity or sophistication to recognize their primitive tribalism. Sucks too because as I said in another post, its this affect that is partly to blame for the negativity Casey gets (that and as you say, some Rossi fans will never like him, though I submit, it goes the same for some Stoner fans). I may be no better since I find myself affected by this as well. They've managed to turn a minor character flaw of either Casey or Vale (if thats what we can call it, though I'd rather just call it being human) into a never ending cesspool of contention for which I've been part of as well as sucked into myself.

I am all for the tribalism thing, it is a large part of the appeal of following a sport. I am as emotional as anyone in the moment, as my reaction to jerez 2011 illustrated. I try to be amenable to reasonable argument , perhaps not always successfully



From my tribal point of view there was a hell of a lot of anti-stoner stuff from that element among rossi fans prior to most of the anti-rossi stuff though. This doesn't actually makes the over the top anti-rossi stuff any more justifiable imo.
 
No talpa, it is your opinion that he created those incidents last year. Also by your own argument since he was fined for the de puniet incident and not sanctioned for the others then he must not have transgressed in the other incidents
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.





Maybe I'm wrong then? Perhaps you can explain to me who did then create all of those incidents, and how Casey was the incidental victim in each case.......?
 
Maybe I'm wrong then? Perhaps you can explain to me who did then create all of those incidents, and how Casey was the incidental victim in each case.......?

The "incidents" involve for those who are not extreme stoner hating rossi fans (which includes some who are extreme rossi hating stoner fans) more than just stoner's reaction, which in many cases was as slight as a gesture. You were among those who tried to make the trackside slow handclapping rather than the torpedo move the incident at jerez, and concentrated on the non-existent danger of that rather than the real danger of the incident, which could easily have included stoner riding over valentino. Even with the de puniet thing the theoretical danger of stoner's "arrogant and impertinent" action as gpone put it was infinitesimal in comparison with the 150kmh+ closing speed accident which was averted, and I believe randy's initial annoyance gave way fairly quickly to the realisation of the danger he had put himself and stoner in.



The abraham incident was an even better example of the attitude of the slanted(imo
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) perspective of those of your ilk. What is common to the testimony of both riders (and their testimony is all we have) is that abraham tried to get a tow (why he would do so on a testing day is hard to know) and stoner decided to pull out of a fast lap. This is pretty much the opposite of most of the incidents which you criticise stoner for, where he is apparently not justified in being annoyed by riders being slow and impeding him, abraham confronted him rather than the reverse, but stoner according to you guys was still "obviously" the transgressor.



We have discussed this ad nauseam anyway, and kropotkin's statement about the paddock's view of stoner's campaign on the closing speed thing pretty well coincides with mine.
 
I haven't followed this thread closely, but I have a question, if it has not already been asked.



Why NOT hate Casey Stoner?
 
I haven't followed this thread closely, but I have a question, if it has not already been asked.



Why NOT hate Casey Stoner?

I would advise against following the thread any more closely.



The internet in the western world currently seems to allow reasonably free speech, and I am fine with people hating casey stoner if they so choose. I have a minor hobby of dissecting arguments which I regard as spurious/invented as to why he should be hated. You are someone I would accept as being closer to neutral on the stoner/rossi thing than most, as well as someone fairly difficult to out-argue, so I would anticipate being in some difficulty if you chose to prosecute an anti-stoner case, although your post does not necessarily imply such a stance.
 
I haven't followed this thread closely, but I have a question, if it has not already been asked.



Save time, energy and brain function ............... don't follow the thread





Why NOT hate Casey Stoner?



The riding.



Pure and simple, the way he rides the bloody machines is reason that I cannot dislike him as I give stuff all about personality off the track, but just love the pure joy and wonderment I get when I watch that guy ride.



He is not alone either as there are a few others that I genuinely enjoy watching ride a bike, but for me he is the epitome of what I like to watch, aggression, precision, talent and speed, all mixed up in a tightly wound package that could easily spring apart at a moment.









Gaz
 
I would advise against following the thread any more closely.



The internet in the western world currently seems to allow reasonably free speech, and I am fine with people hating casey stoner if they so choose. I have a minor hobby of dissecting arguments which I regard as spurious/invented as to why he should be hated. You are someone I would accept as being closer to neutral on the stoner/rossi thing than most, as well as someone fairly difficult to out-argue, so I would anticipate being in some difficulty if you chose to prosecute an anti-stoner case, although your post does not necessarily imply such a stance.



I will heed your advise.



I rate Stoner highly, but I wonder about his redeeming qualities. He loves riding fast, being married, and owning acreage where he can live privately and make babies with his wife. Besides the descendants of ex-British colonials, who can really appreciate the pioneer lifestyle?



Stoner is not extroverted. He's not dramatic. He isn't politically correct. He's not a celebrity tabloid star. He doesn't like fame or attention. He is completely undeserving, but he still wins. No justice in sports. Why not hate him?



The situation is interesting because MotoGP has another guy who lives in the woods and makes babies with his good-looking wife. He is the definition of politically incorrect. Everybody loves him. I think Ben Franklin cracked the continental European psyche many years ago--be a stereotype. Franklin went to salon parties in France in coonskin caps and frontier leathers. He pretended to know nothing about European politics. He was America's most successful diplomat. Colin Edwards is Texan to a fault. Hats, boots, and guns as often as possible. People support him. Casey needs to show up in a Crocodile Dundee outfit and tell stories about how he rides brumbies to Lightning Ridge where he mines opal during the offseason to keep his mortgage current.
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I will heed your advise.



I rate Stoner highly, but I wonder about his redeeming qualities. He loves riding fast, being married, and owning acreage where he can live privately and make babies with his wife. Besides the descendants of ex-British colonials, who can really appreciate the pioneer lifestyle?



Stoner is not extroverted. He's not dramatic. He isn't politically correct. He's not a celebrity tabloid star. He doesn't like fame or attention. He is completely undeserving, but he still wins. No justice in sports. Why not hate him?



The situation is interesting because MotoGP has another guy who lives in the woods and makes babies with his good-looking wife. He is the definition of politically incorrect. Everybody loves him. I think Ben Franklin cracked the continental European psyche many years ago--be a stereotype. Franklin went to salon parties in France in coonskin caps and frontier leathers. He pretended to know nothing about European politics. He was America's most successful diplomat. Colin Edwards is Texan to a fault. Hats, boots, and guns as often as possible. People support him. Casey needs to show up in a Crocodile Dundee outfit and tell stories about how he rides brumbies to Lightning Ridge where he mines opal during the offseason to keep his mortgage current.
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Edwards always maintained his place in the pecking order as a race day test rider. He never dared beat Rossi. Therefore he is liked.
 
who gives a fck about who likes stoner or rossi off the track its about the racing on the track that matters. The day any haters ride a bike better than Stoner I will eat my words. As I say, who gives a fck about anything else. Just race
 
Edwards always maintained his place in the pecking order as a race day test rider. He never dared beat Rossi. Therefore he is liked.



The first part of your reply is true, the second part isn't. Edwards is liked because he comes across as the guy who doesn't really give a ...., he's liked because he's the kinda guy you could out for a pint with.



Whilst Vale plays up for the camera's on race weekends i think that generally he is a quiet guy, borderline introverted. As people on the forum have said, he sticks with his close mates who are always Italian where as Casey appears to be more open, socialising with Spies/Edwards etc though it appears that he clearly likes his alone time as well - Casey and Vale may not be that different actually... (cant wait to see what the boppers/neo boppers/other boppers say about that!)
 
I will heed your advise.



I rate Stoner highly, but I wonder about his redeeming qualities. He loves riding fast, being married, and owning acreage where he can live privately and make babies with his wife. Besides the descendants of ex-British colonials, who can really appreciate the pioneer lifestyle?



Stoner is not extroverted. He's not dramatic. He isn't politically correct. He's not a celebrity tabloid star. He doesn't like fame or attention. He is completely undeserving, but he still wins. No justice in sports. Why not hate him?



The situation is interesting because MotoGP has another guy who lives in the woods and makes babies with his good-looking wife. He is the definition of politically incorrect. Everybody loves him. I think Ben Franklin cracked the continental European psyche many years ago--be a stereotype. Franklin went to salon parties in France in coonskin caps and frontier leathers. He pretended to know nothing about European politics. He was America's most successful diplomat. Colin Edwards is Texan to a fault. Hats, boots, and guns as often as possible. People support him. Casey needs to show up in a Crocodile Dundee outfit and tell stories about how he rides brumbies to Lightning Ridge where he mines opal during the offseason to keep his mortgage current.
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Thanks for the inspiration Lex....



To the tune of "The Wild Colonial Boy"



There was a wild Colonial Boy,

Casey Stoner was his name,

Of poor but honest parents,

Not born near Castlemaine.

He was his father's only hope

His mother's pride and joy,

And dearly did his parents love

The Wild Colonial Boy.



At the age of foureen years

He left his native home,

And to England's distant shores

A bike racer did roam.

They stuck him on a 125

In Aprillias employ,

And no other man on earth could catch

The Wild Colonial Boy



In 2007 this daring youth

Rode the Duke that year,

With a heart that knew no danger

No rivals did he fear.

He never threw his bike down

And robbed the champ of joy

Who, trembling cold, gave up his crown

To the Wild Colonial Boy



He bade the GOAT fair warning

And told him to beware,

That he'd never rob a humble man

Or one who acted square,

But a GOAT who'd robbed another

Of his only pride and joy

Surely he must be a target

For the Wild Colonial Boy



In 2011 he was riding

On his brand new shiny steed,

And HRC did love him

He rode it fast indeed.

Three aliens of great talent,

with them he liked to toy

They forged a plan to grab the crown

From The Wild Colonial Boy.



Surrender now the title,

For you see it's three to one;

Surrender it in DORNAS name,

You aren't the chosen one.

He hopped aboard his RCV

And waved at them with joy,

'I'll fight, and never surrender,' cried

The Wild Colonial Boy.



So here we are in 2012

Awaiting the first round,

Soon to return from exile,

These warriors tightly wound,

Their goal will be to beat the champ

And rob him of his joy,

But will they catch the one they call,

The Wild Colonial Boy.
 
Edwards always maintained his place in the pecking order as a race day test rider. He never dared beat Rossi. Therefore he is liked.

I seldom disagree with lex, but he has given reasons why stoner is not loved, not reasons why he is hated. Similarly edwards is actively loved, as spooky says because of his larger than life personality, sense of humour which is often self deprecating etc, rather than just not hated, which I agree he may have been had he ever managed to beat rossi on a regular basis, given that this has been the fate of every other rider who has dared to beat valentino. Indeed, this now seems to be in the process of being extended beyond successful riders to corporations like honda and yamaha for the crime of building bikes on which riders can beat valentino.



Your earlier post was simplistic though. It is not just stoner beating valentino, it is also that valentino is greatly loved. I can see why he is, and good luck to his fans, but it is nothing to do with stoner, who entered gp and is in fact contracted to win against all opponents, whether or not one of them is valentino.
 
I will heed your advise.



I rate Stoner highly, but I wonder about his redeeming qualities. He loves riding fast, being married, and owning acreage where he can live privately and make babies with his wife. Besides the descendants of ex-British colonials, who can really appreciate the pioneer lifestyle?



Stoner is not extroverted. He's not dramatic. He isn't politically correct. He's not a celebrity tabloid star. He doesn't like fame or attention. He is completely undeserving, but he still wins. No justice in sports. Why not hate him?



The situation is interesting because MotoGP has another guy who lives in the woods and makes babies with his good-looking wife. He is the definition of politically incorrect. Everybody loves him. I think Ben Franklin cracked the continental European psyche many years ago--be a stereotype. Franklin went to salon parties in France in coonskin caps and frontier leathers. He pretended to know nothing about European politics. He was America's most successful diplomat. Colin Edwards is Texan to a fault. Hats, boots, and guns as often as possible. People support him. Casey needs to show up in a Crocodile Dundee outfit and tell stories about how he rides brumbies to Lightning Ridge where he mines opal during the offseason to keep his mortgage current.
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We aussies feel we have some claim on colin anyway, his father was australian. He like valentino has something stoner lacks (in public at least) which is a sense of humour; I actually prefer his to valentino's as he is more self-deprecating and has less edge, although he admittedly has more to be self deprecating about.



I don't think anyone requires stoner to be loved (nor should anyone), but it seems strange to hate him for doing what he is supposed to do which is win bike races, riding in a spectacular fashion whilst doing so which I would have thought anyone who likes bike racing should appreciate.



There is a cultural element to all this as well as you have discerned, with defending an australian rider largely against english supporters of a rider apparently adopted as english (in the absence of anyone english) having extra relish. I hasten to add that the last great english rider, barry sheene migrated here and was loved and revered, and became a major media figure who well and truly transcended bike racing. Valentino was and still is loved here as well, and probably still has more australian fans than stoner does. I doubt that most of the "neoboppers" on here had any problem with valentino prior to the 2007 anti-stoner stuff either.



Just for historical accuracy, quite a significant proportion of australians, including me and I strongly suspect mick doohan, are not descended from convicts but rather descended from those who sought refuge here from starvation in Ireland at a time when that country was producing plentiful food other than potatoes during the potato famine.
 
barry sheene migrated here and was loved and revered, and became a major media figure who well and truly transcended bike racing.



And an absolutely fantastic role he played in bringing Bike racing to the masses ans well as opening doors to many an Australian Bike Racer (McCoy being but one).



Sheene is, was and always weill be a man taken far to early IMO
 
Not sure if this quote has been posted, but im sure some will use it to fuel their hate towards Stoner.



Commenting on the last Sepang test, Stoner basically said, dude if your the lead rider for Ducati, you need to be the fastest Ducati before you start making demands. Or,STFU and ride that ....., ...... Rossi wasnt the slowest Ducati, but he wasnt the fastest either.



"All the other Ducatis were faster than his during the test," Stoner said about Rossi. "He wasn't worried about a single fast lap, but he is the lead rider on the team, and he should be the fastest before complaining so much. He needs to figure out why the GP12 performed well in the first test, and poorly in the second ... but I honestly hope they can turn things around, as it would be good for the entire championship."
 

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