why only stoner can ride ducati

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Jun 4 2009, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Roger that is a very good analysis, and I think i can shed some light on the reasons for his crashes.

Casey has told me that when he was at LCR he kept getting screwed with the tyres come race day. As you know how the tyres would work back then, he would have his practice tyres and be very competitive over those sessions, then come race day the tyres he was given were not even of the same spec that he got to practice on, where as the big boys were getting tyres cooked over night for them!

There definatley would have been rookie mistakes in there, there would have to have been. Im not suggesting either that he woudl have won if he were given the good tyres, but it was his need to push and get back at Michellin that caused him to go over the limit.


First of all, yes Jane, IS200 knows Casey - that is like pretty cool and stuff.



From my perspective and bringing it back to Casey's LCR year, he started out the year in great from with a 2nd place and a pole position then things went bad.

I heard Daryl Beattie speaking quite frankly about this and he described it thus. When Casey started on the LCR Honda they let him guide the setup, because they needed to find a base setting. Then they tried to make it faster and stopped listening to Casey. Colin Stoner (Casey’s father) thought they were just plain mad at the time.

According to Beattie Casey was getting royally ...... over with the tyres as well, basically handicapped with moped tyres.

I think the question should be “why is the Ducati such a cantankerous pig”? (Instead of why can only Casey ride it?) Ducati need to answer that so they can have more than a 1 rider team.

Look at Marco this year – he can ride a bike very well and looks the business on the Kwaka , but he was in 17th looking like an “L” plater on a CBR250 last year.

I would love it if the motorcycling world get a burst of contractual congeniality and let Valentino or Jorge (or Dani) have a ride of the bloody thing to see if they could make it work. Somewhere there has to be someone else who can and I’d start with those riders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jun 4 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First of all, yes Jane, IS200 knows Casey - that is like pretty cool and stuff.

you bet

First off, I am a Ducati Fan..hence the Duc999..
But if my memory serves me correctly, Loris spoke of the Ducati garage only being able to get things right on one bike much less three "factory" bikes. (This was in reference to Loris being offered a third Malboro liveried Ducati)

His comments suggest to me that the team structure could not support both his inputs and Stoners.
For all we know the bike is built to suit Stoner specifically. That is the reason no one else can ride it.

I reckon they should give West a go at it. After all he has nothing to loose and neither do Ducati.

IMO Ducati and Stoner had the perfect marriage happen.

Ducati was in pretty bad shape and took a gamble with Stoner.

Stoner, or Rolling Stoner as he was then called, did not have high market value or else other factory jap teams may have picked him up...and he signed for Ducati.

First year out...he wins the championship! Think of the bonuses he got for his poles/wins/championship!

There is a synergy between these two that none of us would have guessed. Simply incredible. And to see that no other rider can do anything close to Stoner on the bike, is just unexplainable.

Ducati needs to make the bike more rideable for any rider with talent. A truly good bike should be able to go fast with more than one rider...

Having said this Stoner, like Rossi is on another playing field. These two are in a class of their own. Only difference is Rossi has been alone in that class for many many many years...

And all the others are racing for second, always...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ Jun 4 2009, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First off, I am a Ducati Fan..hence the Duc999..
But if my memory serves me correctly, Loris spoke of the Ducati garage only being able to get things right on one bike much less three "factory" bikes. (This was in reference to Loris being offered a third Malboro liveried Ducati)

His comments suggest to me that the team structure could not support both his inputs and Stoners.
For all we know the bike is built to suit Stoner specifically. That is the reason no one else can ride it.

But it wasn't in 2007, Stoner came from LCR and I remember the Motogp headlines at that time where Loris was clearly identified as the lead rider and was offering (almost fatherly) advice to Casey (post his crashy 2006 season) to take it easy and get used to the bike.

Of course he came out at the first race and tore the fabric of the universe asunder, warped the time space continuum , accidentally killing Michelin and Honda in the process but he did it on Loris’s bike.

But yes, I guess it is the Casey bike now, better to back one person who can ride the two wheeled jesus of a thing.

Stoner is the real MotoGP wonder boy of recent years, and I expect more from him in the next few years. Already in 125 he was noticeable. In 250 all expert eyes were on him. In his rookie year in the premier class many already considered him a potential dark horse, if only he could avoid the crashes.

The reason of his crashes on the LCR Honda must have been the tyres (and related politics). As soon as he moved to Bridgestones, things improved a lot. Notice how even De Puniet crashes much less now on the Stones, not to speak of Lorenzo. The Bridgestone front tyre is so much better, and Bridgestone's politics so much more transparent. No wonder all riders wanted them.

Coming to the real question--WHY ONLY STONER? As many point out, there can be no definite answer. The Ducati is a difficult bike, Stoner is a great rider. Is Stoner getting some special difficult configuration from the Ducati engineers, particularly suited to him, that only he can master and fully exploit? Probably

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Jun 4 2009, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Roger that is a very good analysis, and I think i can shed some light on the reasons for his crashes.

Casey has told me that when he was at LCR he kept getting screwed with the tyres come race day. As you know how the tyres would work back then, he would have his practice tyres and be very competitive over those sessions, then come race day the tyres he was given were not even of the same spec that he got to practice on, where as the big boys were getting tyres cooked over night for them!
Very significant, I can well believe it. Neil Hodgson complained about precisely the same thing happening when he rode for Dantin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>is200 @ Jun 4 2009, 12:53 AM)
Roger that is a very good analysis, and I think i can shed some light on the reasons for his crashes.

Casey has told me that when he was at LCR he kept getting screwed with the tyres come race day. As you know how the tyres would work back then, he would have his practice tyres and be very competitive over those sessions, then come race day the tyres he was given were not even of the same spec that he got to practice on, where as the big boys were getting tyres cooked over night for them!

seems unbelievable but so did his 07 championship, so maybe there is something in it.
Who would have order his tyres to be ...... with and what would they have to gain ? ask casey that. Michilin wouldn't have anything to gain nor would team LCR as far as i can see.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 4 2009, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>seems unbelievable but so did his 07 championship, so maybe there is something in it.
Who would have order his tyres to be ...... with and what would they have to gain ? ask casey that. Michilin wouldn't have anything to gain nor would team LCR as far as i can see.

Have you heard the saying, "When the tools go missing on Sunday"

Why can't you understand that some people get the best stuff and others don't. What would they have to gain?? The favorites and most marketable riders winning

If I only had migs' talents

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 4 2009, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>seems unbelievable but so did his 07 championship, so maybe there is something in it.
Who would have order his tyres to be ...... with and what would they have to gain ? ask casey that. Michilin wouldn't have anything to gain nor would team LCR as far as i can see.

Roger, if credence is goven to the comments of Barros after he beat Stoner in 2007 (where it was claimed he was told not to finish in front of the factory again), then to me it would be perfectly logical that the politics in the sport would play games with up and coming riders.

I doubt strongly that any supplier produced products that were designed to fail as that could cause serious injury but why not provide lesser quality tyres, or change settings of the bike. All these would be felt by a rider quickly and the rider should then make the necessary adjustments to suit the changed settings/poorer quality tyres etc, if they recognised it as such. But combine a first year rookie, a one rider team also in their first year and pure ambition and we get a rider who still pushes, fails to recignise the signs and suffers the price.

Yes it all sopunds far fetched and a Lex theory but Stoner would not be the first rider to perform at an unexpected level that upsetst he applecart a bit.

IMO and as I think has already been mentioned, Lorenzo in 2008 was very similar to Stoner in 2006 in terms of performance whereby he was blindingly quick, then airborne, then picked up and bought back.

Or it all be total baloney but what IS200 has said is no different to what Stoner has said in the media a number of times and has been lampooned for it, but when you look at that aspect and also teh Barros comments and take both as the truth it just shows that politics are alive and well within the sport.







Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jun 5 2009, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Roger, if credence is goven to the comments of Barros after he beat Stoner in 2007 (where it was claimed he was told not to finish in front of the factory again), then to me it would be perfectly logical that the politics in the sport would play games with up and coming riders.

I doubt strongly that any supplier produced products that were designed to fail as that could cause serious injury but why not provide lesser quality tyres, or change settings of the bike. All these would be felt by a rider quickly and the rider should then make the necessary adjustments to suit the changed settings/poorer quality tyres etc, if they recognised it as such. But combine a first year rookie, a one rider team also in their first year and pure ambition and we get a rider who still pushes, fails to recignise the signs and suffers the price.

Yes it all sopunds far fetched and a Lex theory but Stoner would not be the first rider to perform at an unexpected level that upsetst he applecart a bit.

IMO and as I think has already been mentioned, Lorenzo in 2008 was very similar to Stoner in 2006 in terms of performance whereby he was blindingly quick, then airborne, then picked up and bought back.

Or it all be total baloney but what IS200 has said is no different to what Stoner has said in the media a number of times and has been lampooned for it, but when you look at that aspect and also teh Barros comments and take both as the truth it just shows that politics are alive and well within the sport.







Garry
Ok the big H might not like the thought of a rookie on a privateer bike beating them but who turned the setting screws ? who told michilin to give crap tyres to the LCR team ? is it a member from the LCR team Directors from the honda factory ?. Team orders and threats to customer teams are one thing, sabotage is another.

If is200 knows casey personally maybe we can get a little more insight into this .If this sabotage caused caseys accidents then i think there are criminal charges to be answered.

Barros had a finger wagged at him for taking points off casey and was never given a suspension guy to impede his performance, thats quite different to someone changing setting in the night.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 5 2009, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barros had a finger wagged at him for taking points off casey and was never given a suspension guy to impede his performance, thats quite different to someone changing setting in the night.

thats down to D'antin, not ducati corse and we all know what a ......... luis d'antin is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jun 5 2009, 10:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats down to D'antin, not ducati corse and we all know what a ......... luis d'antin is.
Douchbag yes but was he acting under ducati orders like it's been implied LCR may have been acting under Honda's orders ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 5 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Douchbag yes but was he acting under ducati orders like it's been implied LCR may have been acting under Honda's orders ?
dantin acted under nobodys orders. do you think anybody would say "no luis, you dont need a suspension tech, you need a new yacht!"



as for LCR, IMO they didnt sabotage, they just ran out of tyres during the weekend as there was not enough money and experience/expertise with the rookie team and rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jun 5 2009, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dantin acted under nobodys orders. do you think anybody would say "no luis, you dont need a suspension tech, you need a new yacht!"



as for LCR, IMO they didnt sabotage, they just ran out of tyres during the weekend as there was not enough money and experience/expertise with the rookie team and rider.
seems no more bizarre than a honda man sneaking into caseys garage in the dead of night changing all his settings or swapping tyres for quality seconds

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 5 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>seems no more bizarre than a honda man sneaking into caseys garage in the dead of night changing all his settings or swapping tyres for quality seconds

Not sabotage (that would be going too far), but surely sloppy and second-rate service, by the tyre supplier rather than the factory

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 5 2009, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok the big H might not like the thought of a rookie on a privateer bike beating them but who turned the setting screws ? who told michilin to give crap tyres to the LCR team ? is it a member from the LCR team Directors from the honda factory ?. Team orders and threats to customer teams are one thing, sabotage is another.

If is200 knows casey personally maybe we can get a little more insight into this .If this sabotage caused caseys accidents then i think there are criminal charges to be answered.

Barros had a finger wagged at him for taking points off casey and was never given a suspension guy to impede his performance, thats quite different to someone changing setting in the night.


Roger, you ask the question that needs to be answered which is irrespective of who made the call (if indeed there was such a call), who performed the work and what work was performed to so dramatically alter the charasteristics of the machine.

I do not subscribe to any theory that says a black clad Honda Ninja stealthily snuck into the LCR garage overnight and wound down or up settings as surely the tem would check all such settings well before the bike left the pits and therefore make corrections amongst other aspects.

Tyres however I suspect could well be a different matter as at that time there were still the Michelin A and B level riders as well as acknowledged C level riders/teams, those that may not have gotten special rubber made for their requirements. To me in these cases where a team does not have the 'pull' (either financially or publicity) than they would not be as well looked after as others and things happen. Not necessarily deliberately but by the sheer nature of business and if on the receiving end eventually an occurrence, becomes coincidence becomes far more if they continue.

As for sabotage I agree, if it was indeed sabotage and a reason or person responsible can be found I fully expect that crimninal charges could in theory be laid and never mind any disciplinary punishments dished out by the sport. But I doubt there ever was or will be an investigation to determine and wrongdoing and lets be honest, all is heresay unless evidence of such activity can be found.

As for Barros it is indeed quite different if indeed he did have a finger waved at him. The mention of him is to point out that if he had a finger waved because he beat the factory it could be used as a backup to Stoner's comments that because he was beating a factory bike 'things happened' as the factory does not like being beaten by a satellite bike. Barros' statements were as far as I can recall uncorroborated just as Stoner's have been.





Garry

Stoner's story about his race setup being changed has a similar case with KRjr on KR-Honda I read somewhere on the Net. When the rider show some good performance and result, things begun going backward.

I don,t think there was any sabotage, just that Casey was down the pecking order and on race day got tyres that were one or two levels down from what the factory Honda team were getting. This was probably a secret directive from Repsol Honda to Michelin. Possibly Casey got the C tyres , rather than the B tyres after outperforming at least one of the Repsol riders in early 2006.
Casey tends to tell it how it is, and judging by his results during the early part of the year versus the latter part , would appear to be a very plausable explanation. There is a lot of politics in motogp.

PS> Pleasing to see that Roger is finally acknowledging that Casey was fast on more than just the Ducati.( Although there is still a little bit of hedging)