Why is Ducati so desperate?

Don't think that Hayden is sitting back and oblivious. Shortly after the Suppo comment showed up on motogpmatters.com, Nicky sublty/indirectly responds on crash.net...

Shortly after claiming his best dry qualifying performance of the season, Nicky Hayden indicated that Ducati Marlboro is not his only 'good option' for the 2010 MotoGP season.

Hayden is still waiting to hear if he will be retained by the factory Ducati team for 2010, but has done his chances no harm by being the top Desmosedici rider in all three sessions so far at Indianapolis, en route to sixth on the grid.

“I've been in years like this before,” Hayden said of his present contract situation. “I try to block it out and let the managers handle the thing. I got a couple of good options. I don't know if I will be here in this [Ducati Marlboro] garage next year. But regardless, I feel pretty confident that I will have a good package.”

This is the first time I've heard of Nicky confirming that he is window shopping.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Aug 30 2009, 03:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How many times does this dead horse need to be flogged.
If the Duc was a whole stack better than anything else in 2007 - what happened to Loris
If the Duc was still the fastest bike in 2008 - what happened to Marco.
Like him or not, just accept that the kid can ride.....

Agreed 100%
Stoner will be looking for big pay rise in 2010, and I bet there will be two other manufacturers chasing him

I think somehow Ducati is a ‘One Bike One Rider’ Manufacturer… as long as they concentrate only in this, they are capable of achieving results. After all the debates, I had grown a doubt about it, but if Hayden starts getting better results and Kallio gets worse that 12 (14th in warm up) it reinforces my old theory I think!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VTtwinner @ Aug 30 2009, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the first time I've heard of Nicky confirming that he is window shopping.If Ducati doesn't sign Hayden, who do they go for? Other than their apparent third-choice Pedrosa, who else would they chase that's not locked-up? Following up on that, what happens to the vacated seat?

Suppo's full of .... at times, but his latest pretty much up and says "there are 4 guys on another planet". Would he really want to take a flier on anyone not in that group right now, after going through 2 years where it took the new rider a long time to adjust to the bike (if at all)? The known difference-makers up front either have contracts signed or have whatever the hell Honda called it's preliminary understanding.

Who would HRC put on Repsol if Pedruig bolted to Ducati? What other options would Ducati find palatable?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VTtwinner @ Aug 30 2009, 08:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the first time I've heard of Nicky confirming that he is window shopping.

Definitely.

On the other hand I have heard Suppo tell Hayden that he has a seat if he wants it.

Frankly, I am surprised that they approached Dani, as I've never really seen him as a 'Ducati-type' of rider. Perhaps they were just trying to 'psychologically unsettle' Stoner and Hayden, as if sending out the message "Shape up, cos we have the clout to offer your seat/s to other riders if you don't"?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 30 2009, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Definitely.

On the other hand I have heard Suppo tell Hayden that he has a seat if he wants it.
Suppo says a lot of things. Sometimes they're just what he obviously has no choice but to say (i.e. "We suport casey, he's improving and on track to return" or "Hayden's first rides on the bike show more promise than Marco ever did) and the media (and we) make them out to be more significant than they are. Other times they're more macho posturing. Sometimes they're code ("wants it" might mean "rides his ... off and gets some results soon") Sometimes they're even just straight-out true.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 30 2009, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Definitely.

On the other hand I have heard Suppo tell Hayden that he has a seat if he wants it.
Man I hope so cause if Hayden got a bit more time on the bike you will see him do much better. HE needs to work on his starts though. If he got a better start half the time he wouldn't be in the position he is. I also think that due to the bike being tough to ride and the limited testing time vs. what Marco had Nicky is the work horse Ducati needs to make that bike more all around for others who don't do as well. Come on DUcati and make him your guy. Stoner disappoints me but again who knows what his deal really is with the illness. I hope he comes back and whooops it up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 30 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Man I hope so cause if Hayden got a bit more time on the bike you will see him do much better. HE needs to work on his starts though. If he got a better start half the time he wouldn't be in the position he is. I also think that due to the bike being tough to ride and the limited testing time vs. what Marco had Nicky is the work horse Ducati needs to make that bike more all around for others who don't do as well. Come on DUcati and make him your guy.

I agree. I think that this time next year he could be seeing podiums quite regularly if duke give him the chance. He has even said before that he never expected this year to be amazing and more of a learning curve. Next year will be the one where he will shows what he is made of. Suppo comments are a little unfair. Nicky has had a bad start to the year but he is improving. Can't knock someone for trying. However he could be trying to play down rumours that the seat up for grabs is Caseys.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (undeadprincess @ Aug 30 2009, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree. I think that this time next year he could be seeing podiums quite regularly if duke give him the chance. He has even said before that he never expected this year to be amazing and more of a learning curve. Next year will be the one where he will shows what he is made of. Suppo comments are a little unfair. Nicky has had a bad start to the year but he is improving. Can't knock someone for trying. However he could be trying to play down rumours that the seat up for grabs is Caseys.
NOt really sure why Suppo says what he says. Was it for motivation? Does he think just anyone can do what Casey does with the bike? I don't know but he better understand what kind of rider he has in Nicky cause so far he is doing well for a bike that is really tough to ride. It is a shame to see it especially since I am a Ducatista and love me some Ducati. I just want to see Hayden given a real good chance to develop that bike a bit more so he gets the front end confidence he so despartely needs right now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 30 2009, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>NOt really sure why Suppo says what he says. Was it for motivation? Does he think just anyone can do what Casey does with the bike? I don't know but he better understand what kind of rider he has in Nicky cause so far he is doing well for a bike that is really tough to ride. It is a shame to see it especially since I am a Ducatista and love me some Ducati. I just want to see Hayden given a real good chance to develop that bike a bit more so he gets the front end confidence he so despartely needs right now.

I hope that is not his way of motivating his riders! There is alot better ways of motivating a person to do better. It isn't like Nicky don't try either and he is trying to shock him into working. Suppo says he would like Nicky to stay and Nicky has said he wants to stay. He does well..ish on the bike so just sign him up for another year damn it! I think Suppo should realise that not everyone is like Casey as it has been proven before Nicky even joined. He should also have realised that signing a guy who has been with Honda for 10 years would not be a simple swap to excellent results. His comments are not called for if you ask me.
How screwed would they be if Hayden signed with say tech 3 (unlikey i know) and Casey didn't come back!
I am a big Hayden fan and wish he would do some much better with the bike and be competitive. So i would too like to see him on it next year and finishing off what he started. I would also like to know what his other good opitions are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (undeadprincess @ Aug 30 2009, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope that is not his way of motivating his riders! There is alot better ways of motivating a person to do better. It isn't like Nicky don't try either and he is trying to shock him into working. Suppo says he would like Nicky to stay and Nicky has said he wants to stay. He does well..ish on the bike so just sign him up for another year damn it! I think Suppo should realise that not everyone is like Casey as it has been proven before Nicky even joined. He should also have realised that signing a guy who has been with Honda for 10 years would not be a simple swap to excellent results. His comments are not called for if you ask me.
How screwed would they be if Hayden signed with say tech 3 (unlikey i know) and Casey didn't come back!
I am a big Hayden fan and wish he would do some much better with the bike and be competitive. So i would too like to see him on it next year and finishing off what he started. I would also like to know what his other good opitions are.
Yeah like I said I am not sure why he would have said such things about a guy that has has the best results to date besides Stoner. Plus with less time than any other Ducati rider for testing. I think it will be a done deal if it isn't already.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 30 2009, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"I certainly got the feeling that they were sure in their own minds of a few things" - I definitely never got that feeling. In fact I'm pretty sure they're still not sure owing to the presenly unknow status of their biggest asset.

I refer to the posturings from Ducati and Phillip Morris whcih to me gave the impression that they were certain that Lorenzo would sign, else why would some of the 'negativityy. about Stoner's alleged poor diets etc have been released.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 30 2009, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"...and now things have backfired" "...failed to be discreet" - I don't see it as a backfire or a discretion issue. It was a calculated, if outrageous, gamble which could have given Ducati the greatest riding duo in the post Rossi era. Didn't work out... this year, but be assured next year Lorenzo will be seriously considering Ducati again.

Agreed, but to me the lack of discretion shown by Ducati and Phillip Morris has backfired as it has made Ducati's desperation public knowledge and foremost in any riders minds come contract time to mention that Ducati approached them as it is known that Ducati want to spend.

Couple that with the impacts for Stoner who knows the money on offer and should he return and again be the only one capable of consistent high places - he should be able to ask for a significant pay rise.

Discretion would have allowed a less public display of Ducati's wealth and disloyalty, thus maintaining a better image.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 31 2009, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I refer to the posturings from Ducati and Phillip Morris whcih to me gave the impression that they were certain that Lorenzo would sign, else why would some of the 'negativityy. about Stoner's alleged poor diets etc have been released.

Garry
I just never got the impression of certainty... The verbal diarrhea from Suppo et al was just corollary damage. Ducati may have overplayed their hand but they appear to be holding some aceslt they just lack the subtlety of a seasoned Texas Hold-'em player...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 31 2009, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...Stoner who knows the money on offer and should he return and again be the only one capable of consistent high places - he should be able to ask for a significant pay rise.

Discretion would have allowed a less public display of Ducati's wealth and disloyalty, thus maintaining a better image.

Garry
My point exactly... Casey now knows his worth if he performs. Discretion be damned the Duc boys have obvious needs and subtlety wouldn't have brought any better results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 30 2009, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah like I said I am not sure why he would have said such things about a guy that has has the best results to date besides Stoner. Plus with less time than any other Ducati rider for testing. I think it will be a done deal if it isn't already.

I think Capirossi's results are still better than Hayden's, but Nicky is definately moving in the right direction, especially when you compare him to Marco last year, by this point in the season Marco had all but given up.
If the Duc takes so long to get used to, why start all over agin with another new rider? Even Lorenzo, as great as he is, was never guaranteed to click with the Duc straight away.
This whole business has looked shabby & badly-handled & publicity wise it's done Ducati no favours.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Helix @ Aug 31 2009, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Capirossi's results are still better than Hayden's, but Nicky is definately moving in the right direction, especially when you compare him to Marco last year, by this point in the season Marco had all but given up.
If the Duc takes so long to get used to, why start all over agin with another new rider? Even Lorenzo, as great as he is, was never guaranteed to click with the Duc straight away.
This whole business has looked shabby & badly-handled & publicity wise it's done Ducati no favours.
Ya know I think your right. Capi has a win on the 800 right? But he has been gone so long now ya almost forget he was a Duc rider in the 800cc era. Yeah Jorge may be a better rider than Hayden but still you look at Marco who is a really talented rider and couldn't get it figured out. My main point is that Nicky has a work ethic second to none. His ability to keep making adjustments and with a smile even though he isn't doing the greatest should make Ducati think about things a bit more. He is not a primadonna type who would slam Ducati cause they didn't get HIM on the box. He knows the value of keeping positive and plugs away at the work. Really besides Stoner, Ducati couldn't do any better for a rider. Especially since it seems no one else wants to be on a factory team over there, at least until they make that bike more all around rideable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 29 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let's just that say this...if it was me, I'd be on the first ship to Japan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex29 @ Aug 30 2009, 05:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>to Repsol Honda....
That'd be my guess. When the Lorenzo saga was going on, I said that he would be taking Hayden's seat and I still think that was the plan. For me, the reason Ducati have lost face in the eyes of Stoner is offering another rider more than double his wages. Stoner delivered them the title and this is the loyalty he gets? If I were Stoner, when my contract expired after 2010 I'd tell Suppo to get ...... and jump on a Honda.

Some of you are asking whether this is Ducati or Marlboro, fair enough question but the writing is on the wall. Capirossi was sacked because surely Melandri could do a better job based on Stoner's results. Melandri was deemed mentally unstable and his poor season was down to him. The huge offer to Lorenzo. The approaches to Pedrosa and Capirossi. And now Hayden's results have been disappointing.

It's Ducati MotoGP. It's Livio Suppo. Who are you going to trust? The man who claimed Marco Melandri needed psychiatric help to go faster or Troy Bayliss?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Aug 28 2009, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not following your post, are you agreeing or disagreeing. I believe you stated once before English wasn't your first language. I'm just trying to understand your post not make fun of you in any way.

Cheers
I was actually sarcastically disagreeing - he may not have had enough winter practise, but he has had ten races plus three fp and quali rounds per race - so plenty of time to get to know the bike. My last remark in the post was supposed to say "tell that to melandri" anyway now scroll forward to Indy NH did a really good job passing CE and then holding off dovi, so my opinion of him went up by a lot yesterday

It is tomorrow that Ducati have to tell Hayden whether they want him next year or not, right? I am pretty sure it was September 1st. So we should be finding out in the next few days if he is staying or going...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (undeadprincess @ Aug 31 2009, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is tomorrow that Ducati have to tell Hayden whether they want him next year or not, right? I am pretty sure it was September 1st. So we should be finding out in the next few days if he is staying or going...
Yes, but all that means is that Hayden is free to sign with any team he wants, including Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Aug 31 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, but all that means is that Hayden is free to sign with any team he wants, including Ducati.

Oooh. Knew that didn't sound too right!