Why is Ducati so desperate?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 29 2009, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/...re_disappo.html

suppo speaks.

thanks for the link frosty

i think suppo is and ..... tbh... well done mr suppo keep pilling the pressure on casey and knocking other riders down when they are trying there best....

if he thinks they will find another like stoner that gels with the bike right out of the box then he will be waiting along time.... i think de angelis should get a shot on the duke...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Aug 28 2009, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thanks for the link frosty

i think suppo is and ..... tbh... well done mr suppo keep pilling the pressure on casey and knocking other riders down when they are trying there best....

if he thinks they will find another like stoner that gels with the bike right out of the box then he will be waiting along time.... i think de angelis should get a shot on the duke...
yeah he ain't doin his riders any favors.

Taking down Yamaha meaning they can be on top is also a motive

Ducati do have a right to be desperate, In 1.5 short years they've gone from absolute dominance to a bike that only one man can ride well only some of the time.

Current field is not the place to look, someone suggested Simoncelli earlier, this is where they should be looking- the next rider to tame the duck will have never ridden a MotoGP bike and developed habits that the Duck disagrees with....

wow wow i am so right again.

hayden to be a failure on the ducati and ducati to regret it. both on the track and image wise. said it last year and say it again. ducati made the biggest mistake in the world by signing a mid pack rider with the intention and expectation of him challenging for podiums and wins. hayden would barely challenge for podiums even if he was on the yamaha.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 28 2009, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/...re_disappo.html

suppo speaks.

The sound of backpeddaling. He's not doing himself and Ducati any favors unless this was a very rough translation.

Really, where's the surprise here, guys? Ducati's corporate MotoGP psyche has become pretty self-evident recently...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 29 2009, 05:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really, where's the surprise here, guys? Ducati's corporate MotoGP psyche has become pretty self-evident recently...

It has hasn't it, and as an observer one could readily say that whilst business is business there is a distinct smell about the way that Ducati have conducted themselves over the last few weeks. How much of this is Ducati being Ducati and how much is precipitated by Phillip Morris one can only surmise, but the last few weeks have been public relations disasters for most observers.

One must now wonder where Stoner sits within the realm of heirachy as he is the lone success in the 800cc era, where it places Stoner in terms of bargaining power (suspect that Phillip Morris have a big say on that) and whether the Ducati brand has been affected in terms of attracting riders.






Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It has hasn't it, and as an observer one could readily say that whilst business is business there is a distinct smell about the way that Ducati have conducted themselves over the last few weeks. How much of this is Ducati being Ducati and how much is precipitated by Phillip Morris one can only surmise, but the last few weeks have been public relations disasters for most observers.

One must now wonder where Stoner sits within the realm of heirachy as he is the lone success in the 800cc era, where it places Stoner in terms of bargaining power (suspect that Phillip Morris have a big say on that) and whether the Ducati brand has been affected in terms of attracting riders.

Gaz
To me it seems like the team lacked any foresight (or were the ultimate positive thinkers) in that they seemed to realize their shortcomings at the same moment as the general MGP public. After two rose-tinted years with Casey rocking and the rest lacking (oh well, Casey will always be at the sharp end) this year comes around to slap the dumb ..... into the realization that because of: (you pick the deadly combination) lack of developmental direction; single-minded developmental direction; unproven prototype parts; lack of a competitive second rider; inability of any talented rider (omit CS here) to be competitive on the mule; Casey's medical issues; Casey's mental issues; their own (team bosses) ineptitude... etc ad infinitum, that not only weren't they the dominant player any longer they are now in a precarious position and could easily be in Suzuki's tire warmers next year if Casey's problems persist. Plan B... anyone???

Plan B, but at the cost of pissing off their golden goose who says he's on his way back?

I can only imagine how Casey feels after seeing all the money Ducati is waving around the paddock while he's gone.

You think he's getting 13mil incentives to stay in red?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 29 2009, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Plan B, but at the cost of pissing off their golden goose who says he's on his way back?

I can only imagine how Casey feels after seeing all the money Ducati is waving around the paddock while he's gone.

You think he's getting 13mil incentives to stay in red?


Exactly, but as I have asked elsewhere was it Ducati who sought out Phillip Morris and asked for dollars to get Lorenzo, or was it Phillip Morris who came running to Ducati?

The stories leaked would suggest that it could be a bit 50/50 as the sponsor was apparently unhappy that Stoner would do no more than the minimum required of him in his contract where Ducati are likely crap scared of Stoner walking away.

Either way, it would be fun to be a fly on teh wall come next contract time between Stoner, Dycati and Phillip Morris - one could well suggest that the negotiations (assuming there will be some) are tense.





Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The stories leaked would suggest that it could be a bit 50/50 as the sponsor was apparently unhappy that Stoner would do no more than the minimum required of him in his contract where Ducati are likely crap scared of Stoner walking away.

Gaz
Either way who could blame Ducati or PM? A little late but they both have a product/brand to protect if Casey is unable to continue... Casey's personal value will be set between now and next silly season based on how well he recovers/performs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 29 2009, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Either way who could blame Ducati or PM? A little late but they both have a product/brand to protect if Casey is unable to continue... Casey's personal value will be set between now and next silly season based on how well he recovers/performs.


One cannot blame them for looking, but I certainly got the feeling that they were sure in their own minds of a few things (JL signing being one), and now things have backfired and they are or both will be red-faced as they have been punlically found out in some aspects.

Both failed to be discreet and both made or are suspected of involvement in making some interesting and perhaps scurrilous stories about their current rider. WOuld you ride for them knowing that they operate in this way (asking rhetorically)?






Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Aug 28 2009, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it is ........ that they approached Capirossi and is probably just a translation issue or ego issue for Loris.

I can't believe Suzuki gave him another year. I also can't believe his interview. He basically said "I don't care if the bike is crap and can't win as long as I am comfortable!" Now there is an attitude that belongs at the pinnacle of motorcycle racing. Imagine if Stoner or Hayden said that!!!! No way did Ducati approach Loris. He gave up when he went to Suzuki and is only in it because he needs to earn a bit more before retirement.

Suzuki's Results.

Capirossi: 5 times 5th in 27 races average points 7.22 and 3 DNFs.

Vermeulen: 7 Podiums in 64 races average points 7.45 and 5 DNFs.

I don't think Capirossi is giving up, he is old ok, but his average without Podiums is pretty much the same as Vermeulen's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One cannot blame them for looking, but I certainly got the feeling that they were sure in their own minds of a few things (JL signing being one), and now things have backfired and they are or both will be red-faced as they have been punlically found out in some aspects.

Gaz

I agree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Both failed to be discreet and both made or are suspected of involvement in making some interesting and perhaps scurrilous stories about their current rider. WOuld you ride for them knowing that they operate in this way (asking rhetorically)?

Gaz

Yes I would, and if they throw in 13e6 would be better … (Answering rhetorically)!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WOuld you ride for them knowing that they operate in this way (asking rhetorically)?

Gaz

Honestly I'd be asking WTF was going on at the very least if I were Casey Stoner.

I bring you a championship and utter dominance for a while, finishing on the podium or damned near it until I need a quick break for my overall wellbeing, then suddenly you're offering somebody 13mil to ride my bike?

Let's just that say this...if it was me, I'd be on the first ship to Japan.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Aug 28 2009, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yep - he dominated the season in 2007 when the duc was a whole stack better than anything else. 2008 it was still the fastest bike, but the playing field was leveller and the whining started. 2009 and the going is tough (he's still pushing me, mommy) and he needs a 3 race break aka 3 dns's worse than dnf's. Add those to the "normal" 1 or 2 dnf's that most of the top riders manage in a season and he got a 30 percent handicap - duc should be concerned & looking for a rider

How many times does this dead horse need to be flogged.
If the Duc was a whole stack better than anything else in 2007 - what happened to Loris
If the Duc was still the fastest bike in 2008 - what happened to Marco.
Like him or not, just accept that the kid can ride.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 30 2009, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honestly I'd be asking WTF was going on at the very least if I were Casey Stoner.

I bring you a championship and utter dominance for a while, finishing on the podium or damned near it until I need a quick break for my overall wellbeing, then suddenly you're offering somebody 13mil to ride my bike?

Let's just that say this...if it was me, I'd be on the first ship to Japan.

Agreed 100%
Stoner will be looking for big pay rise in 2010, and I bet there will be two other manufacturers chasing him

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 28 2009, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not the same. Toesland had great bike and didn't do .... with it.
Edwards hardly set the world on fire with it either !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 30 2009, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honestly I'd be asking WTF was going on at the very least if I were Casey Stoner.

I bring you a championship and utter dominance for a while, finishing on the podium or damned near it until I need a quick break for my overall wellbeing, then suddenly you're offering somebody 13mil to ride my bike?

Let's just that say this...if it was me, I'd be on the first ship to Japan.

to Repsol Honda....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 30 2009, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Edwards hardly set the world on fire with it either !

Well looking at his place in the championship, he's not doing so bad either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One cannot blame them for looking, but I certainly got the feeling that they were sure in their own minds of a few things (JL signing being one), and now things have backfired and they are or both will be red-faced as they have been punlically found out in some aspects.

Both failed to be discreet and both made or are suspected of involvement in making some interesting and perhaps scurrilous stories about their current rider. WOuld you ride for them knowing that they operate in this way (asking rhetorically)?

Gaz
"I certainly got the feeling that they were sure in their own minds of a few things" - I definitely never got that feeling. In fact I'm pretty sure they're still not sure owing to the presenly unknow status of their biggest asset.

"...and now things have backfired" "...failed to be discreet" - I don't see it as a backfire or a discretion issue. It was a calculated, if outrageous, gamble which could have given Ducati the greatest riding duo in the post Rossi era. Didn't work out... this year, but be assured next year Lorenzo will be seriously considering Ducati again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 29 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honestly I'd be asking WTF was going on at the very least if I were Casey Stoner. ...suddenly you're offering somebody 13mil to ride my bike?
I have never believed it was Casey's seat up for grabs, that's an assumption that many have erroneously made. If Ducati had signed Jorge it was Nicky on the way out, and if Casey regained his form, JL & CS would have made a formidable Rossi beating threat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Aug 30 2009, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner will be looking for big pay rise in 2010, and I bet there will be two other manufacturers chasing him
As I said earlier in the thread, "Casey's personal value will be set between now and next silly season based on how well he recovers/performs." If he performs up to his usual phenomenal standards every factory team will come-a-courtin'!