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What's Wrong with the Ducati?

MigsAngel
3708951390233757



 


100% agree!


 


Shame Ducati don't take the gamble and make all 4 bikes Open...just to really get a head start on the others for the future.....
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well, they have experience with their own ECU, so to completely throw this over board wouldn't be so smart. by running both in parallel they can compare and learn to adapt the spec ECU to their needs, and to 'translate' settings from one system to another. similar to Honda giving Nakano a factory bike running Bridgestones in 2008. (and in fact very similar to what Honda is doing with their proddy racer, I reckon).
 
sewarion
3708981390265757

well, they have experience with their own ECU, so to completely throw this over board wouldn't be so smart. by running both in parallel they can compare and learn to adapt the spec ECU to their needs, and to 'translate' settings from one system to another. similar to Honda giving Nakano a factory bike running Bridgestones in 2008. (and in fact very similar to what Honda is doing with their proddy racer, I reckon).
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If the future is 1 standard ECU and Ducati knows we cannot win in 2014 then why not plan and focus on 2015 and beyond......and get more fuel and engines right now...


 


They wont do it of course but they should consider it....
 
I've been of the boards for quite a while. I will throw my $.02 about Pol. I think that Pol should be a double Moto2 champion right about now if Race Direction had balls.


 


Having said that, I don't think that Pol will be beating Rossi, Bautista, and Bradl. I think that he and Smith will be duking it out. The only question that I really have about Tech 3 is who will be on the Factory yamaha seat and who will be on the Tech3 (minimally supported ride).


 


This year Smith rode a bike that was basically the 2012 Tech 3 bike while Crutchlow recieved Lorenzo's 2012 bike - Big difference.


 


Cheers to Pol. If he has the full factory seat he will be fighting with Rossi Bradl Bautista. If not he will be fighting with Aleix, Nicky, and Redding
 
Duc999
3709011390332967

I've been of the boards for quite a while. I will throw my $.02 about Pol. I think that Pol should be a double Moto2 champion right about now if Race Direction had balls.


 


Having said that, I don't think that Pol will be beating Rossi, Bautista, and Bradl. I think that he and Smith will be duking it out. The only question that I really have about Tech 3 is who will be on the Factory yamaha seat and who will be on the Tech3 (minimally supported ride).


 


This year Smith rode a bike that was basically the 2012 Tech 3 bike while Crutchlow recieved Lorenzo's 2012 bike - Big difference.


 


Cheers to Pol. If he has the full factory seat he will be fighting with Rossi Bradl Bautista. If not he will be fighting with Aleix, Nicky, and Redding
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I agree with many of your points (especially the difference between Crutchlow and Smith's bikes), but what does this have to do with Ducati?
 
Personally I wouldn't care if Ducati left GP. Are we supposed to wait for another Stoner-like rider to appear? .... that.
 
eltoro
3709031390364081

Personally I wouldn't care if Ducati left GP. Are we supposed to wait for another Stoner-like rider to appear? .... that.
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A Stoner-like rider has appeared. Unfortunately for Ducati, he rides for Honda.
 
rezonator636
3709051390405425

A Stoner-like rider has appeared. Unfortunately for Ducati, he rides for Honda.
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Don't assume. Unless top riders start actually taking the Marlboro money like Rossi and risk their reputations on that bike then we don't exactly know how they would perform on it.
 
eltoro
3709061390426662

Don't assume. Unless top riders start actually taking the Marlboro money like Rossi and risk their reputations on that bike then we don't exactly know how they would perform on it.
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Why not? Just about everything on this forum is assumption or opinion. MM is one of the two fastest riders in MotoGP. If's a safe bet that if (and it's a big if) anyone can make the Ducati work, it's him, the other being Lorenzo. 


 


That being said, we'll never know. After what Rossi went thorough on the Duc, there's no way a top-tier rider will ever go to Ducati again, at least not until they get the bike sorted, if that ever happens. 
 
rezonator636
3709071390433269

Why not? Just about everything on this forum is assumption or opinion. MM is one of the two fastest riders in MotoGP. If's a safe bet that if (and it's a big if) anyone can make the Ducati work, it's him, the other being Lorenzo. 


 


That being said, we'll never know. After what Rossi went thorough on the Duc, there's no way a top-tier rider will ever go to Ducati again, at least not until they get the bike sorted, if that ever happens. 
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Funny, you sound like me when I heard Rossi signed with Ducati. I'll leave it at that.
 
eltoro
3709081390435294

Funny, you sound like me when I heard Rossi signed with Ducati. I'll leave it at that.
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It wasn't unfair to expect a seven-time premier class champion succeed on the Ducati, especially when that champion had already won titles with two different manufacturers. Some moto journalists wrote about a Ducati-Rossi championship like it was a done deal. When he signed the deal, I had my doubts that he would win a title, but I was sure he would win races. No one expected his time there to be so disastrous. 


 


I do think that Marquez has Stoner-level talent, because he displayed incredible speed right from the gate, and was winning races while still learning the ins and outs of the bike. Would he put the Ducati on the podium? Probably not, but I don't think Stoner could do it right now, either. The bike seems to have taken major steps backward since Stoner left, and no amount of rider talent can overcome its deficiencies. It's up to GiGi to fix that mess now. 
 
I'd agree with reso. Marky is a markedly better rider, technically, than rossi ever will be.


I still see betteŕ in Stoner, technically, than Marky, however I also think Marky is more "gung-ho" than Stoner was.


Lorenzo is more conistent than Marky, but not as technically talented.


Pedro has talent but not enough "gung-ho" to let it show much.


The yamaha suits the consistent.


the honda .... the talented enough to win on it ....


the duc ..... the creatively talented.
 
BarryMachine
3709101390456383

I'd agree with reso. Marky is a markedly better rider, technically, than rossi ever will be.


I still see betteŕ in Stoner, technically, than Marky, however I also think Marky is more "gung-ho" than Stoner was.


Lorenzo is more conistent than Marky, but not as technically talented.


Pedro has talent but not enough "gung-ho" to let it show much.


The yamaha suits the consistent.


the honda .... the talented enough to win on it ....


the duc ..... the creatively talented.
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I dont feel that Mark is as good as Stoner.....Marc is great on the Honda....Honda for Marc is key....without it he'd not be champion.....put Marc on the Duc or Yamaha, and he would have had a normal rookie year....


 


I think that if Stoner had stayed at Ducati....he would not have won a second title.....the Honda made Stoners life much easier, and was able to dominate....


 


My point is Honda makes great easy to ride bikes.....almost anyone can win a title on it......
 
rezonator636
3709071390433269

 

 

That being said, we'll never know. After what Rossi went thorough on the Duc, there's no way a top-tier rider will ever go to Ducati again, at least not until they get the bike sorted, if that ever happens. 
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I disagree. I am sure those on the inside and particularly the riders know that Rossi is not the rider that his fans think he is. The whole Rossi is the greatest ever ........ is manufactured. He is a good rider who worked the system using his charisma better than anyone has ever done and better than the current crop of truly great riders will ever do. Marquez is a truly exceptionally talented motorcycle rider/racer as was Stoner. Rossi is not a pimple on either of their arses.
 
Mental Anarchist
3709121390479577

I disagree. I am sure those on the inside and particularly the riders know that Rossi is not the rider that his fans think he is. The whole Rossi is the greatest ever ........ is manufactured. He is a good rider who worked the system using his charisma better than anyone has ever done and better than the current crop of truly great riders will ever do. Marquez is a truly exceptionally talented motorcycle rider/racer as was Stoner. Rossi is not a pimple on either of their arses.
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This may be true....but it is going to take a long time for any other rider to win as many races and titles as Rossi won.....so if say championships make one great then Rossi certainly up near the top of greatness.....if we go by wins then same.....


if we go by a subjective measure like talent or potential talent then we can make Gary McCoy the GOAT, or even BIaggi or....or....or ....


 


what we can say is that Marquez is off to a great start at being the GOAT....so long as he doesn leave Honda .....  
 
Mental Anarchist
3709121390479577

I disagree. I am sure those on the inside and particularly the riders know that Rossi is not the rider that his fans think he is. The whole Rossi is the greatest ever ........ is manufactured. He is a good rider who worked the system using his charisma better than anyone has ever done and better than the current crop of truly great riders will ever do. Marquez is a truly exceptionally talented motorcycle rider/racer as was Stoner. Rossi is not a pimple on either of their arses.
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Stoner would agree with you wholeheartedly.


 


Personally, I think Rossi was great, but he was great in a vacuum, and his raft of titles came from the fact that he had no real rivals early in his career. This is why you can't measure greatness on wins and titles alone; Lorenzo would probably be going on four straight titles now if he didn't have to deal with Stoner and Marquez. Rossi never had to deal with that caliber of competition when he was winning five straight titles.


 


But...as I've pointed out before, that's not his fault. You can only race the riders who are there. Biaggi, Giberneau, and the rest of the GP field weren't up to Rossi's level, but they were the best competition MotoGP could give and he beat them like rented mules. He was the greatest rider of his time, perhaps, but he's not the greatest rider of all time. I still think that honor belongs to Hailwood, who not only won five world titles but also TT races in two very different eras.
 
MigsAngel
3709111390474273

I dont feel that Mark is as good as Stoner.....Marc is great on the Honda....Honda for Marc is key....without it he'd not be champion.....put Marc on the Duc or Yamaha, and he would have had a normal rookie year....

 

I think that if Stoner had stayed at Ducati....he would not have won a second title.....the Honda made Stoners life much easier, and was able to dominate....

 

My point is Honda makes great easy to ride bikes.....almost anyone can win a title on it......
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Mostly agree, except I think he could have sat on the yamaha for the title. I disagree about the honda, and think that the yam is the easy ride.
 
Almost all of Marquez's passes this year were in cornering, very few coming as a result of Honda's percieved top end dominance. He would be lethal with the corner speed of the the Yamaha.
 
povol
3709161390544076

Almost all of Marquez's passes this year were in cornering, very few coming as a result of Honda's percieved top end dominance. He would be lethal with the corner speed of the the Yamaha.
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Do you make a pass because of corner speed or do you make a pass under brakes into the apex? I don't think corner speed has anything to do with passing. Corner speed is about lap times.
 
povol
3709161390544076

Almost all of Marquez's passes this year were in cornering, very few coming as a result of Honda's percieved top end dominance. He would be lethal with the corner speed of the the Yamaha.
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I just think Marquez rides hard and fast.....so is hard on engines and fuel consumption....the honda is great at managing fuel and their engine life is legendary.....hence why i dont think Marquez could have won the title on the yamaha with its relatively poor fuel management and engine life...
 
MigsAngel
3709191390562032

I just think Marquez rides hard and fast.....so is hard on engines and fuel consumption....the honda is great at managing fuel and their engine life is legendary.....hence why i dont think Marquez could have won the title on the yamaha with its relatively poor fuel management and engine life...
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This brings up an interesting question: is the M1 slowly turning into the Ducati that Stoner rode to the title? Lorenzo makes it look as if there's only one way to be fast on the Yamaha, and that's by being super-smooth. Rossi tried to adapt the bike to his style and it flat-out didn't work. The Honda, on the other hand, is a winner with either MM or Dani, whose riding styles are very different from each other. 
 

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