What's Wrong with the Ducati?

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Jumkie said:
Wait wait, u said they (Ducati) didnt do anything special for VR. Maybe u havent been paying attention the last 18 months, but VR results have been ..... Every change they have made has resulted in .... performance. Now suddenly VR/JB are geniuses because they made podium last event, despite a very good explanation why the circumstances created a perfect storm?



Ok, lets put ur theory to test. I believe the last time two Ducs made the podium was at Aragon. So we can say its a Ducati track. So lets make a bet, a little wager. Lets bar rain or any crashes/strange retirements by a prototype bike (except for Ducatis), if VR makes the podium again, i will declare u are right, "VR/JB are development genius". If he doesnt make the podium, u must declare i am right, "VR/JB are development morons." Bet?





Btw, i agree, i think if any improvements have been made, they are because Ducati made them. But more likely a departure from VR/JBs input. As all the inputs those two have made have resulted in .....
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Jum, let me clarify to you (for the umpteenth time) that my point is not that Ducati doesn't do anything; it is that whatever they do, including moving heaven and earth as you like so much to say, is done for Ducati, not for the sake of Valentino Rossi (or of any other individual); maybe one day this simple truth will pierce through the thick layers of your preconceived ideas. Who knows.
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Regarding the rest, it wasn't me saying that Rossi is a genius for interpreting a GP bike's behavior: it was Masao Furusawa who certainly knows better than me (and you) in this regard, and from direct and qualified experience. Maybe you should place your bets with him...?
 
J4rn0 said:
Jum, let me clarify to you (for the umpteenth time) that my point is not that Ducati doesn't do anything; it is that whatever they do, including moving heaven and earth as you like so much to say, is done for Ducati, not for the sake of Valentino Rossi (or of any other individual); maybe one day this simple truth will pierce through the thick layers of your preconceived ideas. Who knows.
<




Regarding the rest, it wasn't me saying that Rossi is a genius for interpreting a GP bike's behavior: it was Masao Furusawa who certainly knows better than me (and you) in this regard, and from direct and qualified experience. Maybe you should place your bets with him...?
Click to expand...
]



Well-reasoned response.
 
Geonerd said:
What's the consensus opinion of Ducati's test rider(s)?



(Faahk, I can't remember the dude's name...)



It seems that at least half the .... tested by Flossi and Haystack gets rejected. IMO, they should hire someone like Corser, Gibbers, or a more recent MotoGP refugee (someone familiar with the 'Stones). Have this person attend ALL of the official test sessions so that the team can correlate his feedback with that of the factory riders. Then turn this dude lose at Duc's test track and feed him a steady diet of frame, swingarm, software, etc. updates and tweaks.



As it stands, the impression is that Duc drags their ... for months, only to deliver useless parts. Whatever the reason, this needs to stop immediately.
Click to expand...

Gibernau would be best, but Corser is a great alternative too.
 
Do you guys really think Ducati can make the L configured engine better. .?



I think they have the best L engine out there ........ but its like a 3 legged dog .....whilst ever its got that cylinder banging away out front so far.
 
BarryMachine said:
Do you guys really think Ducati can make the L configured engine better. .?



I think they have the best L engine out there ........ but its like a 3 legged dog .....whilst ever its got that cylinder banging away out front so far.
Click to expand...

As I said on the other thread your hypothesis would seem to be in the process of being tested, with ducati sticking to the L4 for their motogp bike and revisions to the chassis showing some promise last race, and honda apparently putting out a 90 degree V4 road bike, possibly the basis for their next WSBK contender.
 
michaelm said:
As I said on the other thread your hypothesis would seem to be in the process of being tested, with ducati sticking to the L4 for their motogp bike and revisions to the chassis showing some promise last race, and honda apparently putting out a 90 degree V4 road bike, possibly the basis for their next WSBK contender.
Click to expand...



You are aware that prior to their second place all was gloom and doom
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1 second place does not mean its "better" yet. :wink:, especially when in its same form the bike has had dismal runs, and getting more dismal by then race.
 
BarryMachine said:
You are aware that prior to their second place all was gloom and doom
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<
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1 second place does not mean its "better" yet. :wink:, especially when in its same form the bike has had dismal runs, and getting more dismal by then race.
Click to expand...

If you look at the other thread, I didn't say you were wrong, just that 2 independent groups (ducati corse and honda) would appear to be fairly seriously testing your hypothesis.
 
not sure about Honda, I think they did that years ago and left the concept because of the need to get the cylinder banks up around the CofT. I don,t know why folk are trying to tie Honda to it again.
 
BarryMachine said:
not sure about Honda, I think they did that years ago and left the concept because of the need to get the cylinder banks up around the CofT. I don,t know why folk are trying to tie Honda to it again.
Click to expand...

Because it looks like they are putting out a 90 degree V4 sportsbike which may be the basis of a wsbk contender.
 
BarryMachine said:
When I see it, I'll believe it.
Click to expand...



"Honda[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] Chief Executive Officer [/font]Takanobu Ito[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] announced plans to produce a new super sports bike derived from its [/font]RC213VMotoGP[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] race bike.[/font]

[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]A V4 Honda sportsbike has long been rumored to be in development but it finally appears the project is getting the green light. Speaking about Honda&rsquo;s plans for the next five years, Ito confirmed the sportbike is on its way, using technology from the company&rsquo;s successful MotoGP program.[/font]

[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]&ldquo;Since its market introduction in 1987, the RC30 (VFR750R) super sports bike has been loved by a large number of fans,&rdquo; says Ito. &ldquo;With a goal to create a new history, passionate Honda engineers have gotten together and have begun development of a new super sports bike to which new technologies from MotoGP machines will be applied.&rdquo;"[/font]



http://world.honda.com/news/2012/c120921CEO-Speech/index.html?from=r
 
Geo I suspect that Rossi's setup would not vary greatly from Hayden's. If you think about it Hayden cut his teeth in MotoGP with a Rossi developed Honda. The key for Ducati will be finding a good base that many riders could be succesful using.
 
BarryMachine said:
When I see it, I'll believe it.
Click to expand...
I'm with you and that bike is to be mass produced so they will be cost cutting as Honda always do. The Ducati in it's current form is good enough to beat the CRT bikes and that's all the new Honda is going to be a CRT bike. Even Honda themselves have said they put the narrow engine FXX against the RC30 and completely spanked it. The V5 75.5 degree engine was born from the FXX and not the 90 V4, if it wouldn't have been for the weight penalty they would have used the V6 FXX engine for GP.
 
Mick D said:
Jum's gonna eat it up!!



"Yes, but this chassis was designed more from my feedback than Valentino's. From that point of view, it's a good thing that Rossi is leaving at the end of the season, because now the chassis can be based on the geometry that I prefer. Preziosi told me that the new version should be better suited to my set-up than to his."



http://www.gpone.com...l#ixzz27nbT9MmK
Click to expand...



So that means this new chassis wasn't based on a Preziosi-Furusawa's weekend copulation of engineering minds, but on actual rider feedback? Wow that's news... whoever the rider is.
<
 
Zootalaws said:
"Honda[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] Chief Executive Officer [/font]Takanobu Ito[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] announced plans to produce a new super sports bike derived from its [/font]RC213VMotoGP[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] race bike.[/font]

[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]A V4 Honda sportsbike has long been rumored to be in development but it finally appears the project is getting the green light. Speaking about Honda&rsquo;s plans for the next five years,

Ito confirmed the sportbike is on its way, using technology from the company&rsquo;s successful MotoGP program.[/font]

[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]&ldquo;Since its market introduction in 1987, the RC30 (VFR750R) super sports bike has been loved by a large number of fans,&rdquo; says Ito. &ldquo;With a goal to create a new history, passionate Honda





engineers have gotten together and have begun development of a new super sports bike to which new technologies from MotoGP machines will be applied.&rdquo;"[/font]



http://world.honda.com/news/2012/c120921CEO-Speech/index.html?from=r
Click to expand...





And why is it supposed to be a 90?



Mind you, I'm not beyond thinking Honda would not do it. Even just to get cred over Duc.;



But, I'll wait and see what gets produced, if anything ....... in this climate. Its too early for a swan song by Honda though, surely? :fuddled:







 
BarryMachine said:
And why is it supposed to be a 90?



Mind you, I'm not beyond thinking Honda would not do it. Even just to get cred over Duc.;



But, I'll wait and see what gets produced, if anything ....... in this climate. Its too early for a swan song by Honda though, surely? :fuddled:
Click to expand...

See the rc213v engine thread. Dave Emmett reckons he has seen one (? a prototype) and it has a 90 degree V4 engine.
 

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