What's Wrong with the Ducati?

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Mental Anarchist said:
I would say VR & JB have nothing to do with it. I think a few days with Furusawa is where the big step has come from. From the interviews it is fairly clear he gave them a solid general knowledge of how he designs/balances a chassis. By the change it looks like they pretty much got it right at the first attempt. Just like in 2004 the true genius is the Japanese Engineer.
Click to expand...



I spoke of this possibility months ago and got lambasted, then received a mountain of tinfoil hat awards. Beware.
<
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
+1



It could never be so simple as a couple of days insight
Click to expand...



Why? If furusawa gave them the key to balance and they applied it to their bike and found where they were wrong fixed it and produced a new chassis usine his triangles concept it could have been a very easy fix.



I have found in life that often the truly ingenious stuff is ingenious because it is so simple.



Keshav, some people find it difficult to attribute great outcomes to others. The same people find in incredibly easy to attribute failure every where else though.
 
You only have to look at how long that new swing arm has been on the cards. Furusawa may well have contributed. Little ironic to try & credit him solely.
 
Goatboy said:
You only have to look at how long that new swing arm has been on the cards. Furusawa may well have contributed. Little ironic to try & credit him solely.
Click to expand...

Furosawa probably does deserve credit, vr and jb all along have not unreasonably wanted the ducati to handle more like the furosawa designed yamahas he had ridden, but probably didn't have to be informed face to face at the last moment of his design philosophy, vr having examples of same in his loungeroom apart from anything else.



Still, the guy is a genius, and any input he may have given on the occasion of his visit was no doubt valuable, and I totally agree with the earlier post about many great inventions seeming simple and obvious in retrospect once someone has had the genius to conceive them.
 
I wonder why Ducati cannot be given credit for an handling improvement they've been after since Rossi is there. Some here have written too much about Ducati being inept and incompetent, without knowing a thing about Ducati really, just facile blah blah; same for the so called 'development skills' of VR and JB, that have been ridiculed in spite of all past evidence (including the tribute paid by Furusawa himself...) and now of course they have to look for some outside source if any improvement is made, like a 2-hour revelation from Furusawa who btw reassured his ex-bosses back at Iwata that he didn't reveal any secrets; but never mind, if it wasn't Saint Furusawa then it must have been a divine intervention or plain luck -- whatever, but it cannot be that Ducati Corse, especially with Rossi-Burgess, might actually be good and able to solve problems, albeit taking a longer time than Jap giants (and t0o long for Rossi).
 
I think you will find in my first post giving credit to Furusawa that I clearly stated that he gave them the general philosophy and Ducati appear to have got it right at the first attempt. How you can determine that no credit is being given to Ducati is beyond me.



I suspect that JB and Rossi didn't know about this philosophy, all they knew is what it felt like and how to tune the bike within that framework to suit each of the different tracks. Hence the reason they have not been able to give the answer to Ducati for near on 2 years. Do I think they are failures for that? No. They are not the design engineers. They are the race weekend fine tuners. Something they do very successfully if the bike is within the right parameter to begin with. When Furasawa sat down with Prezosi and gave a general overview, Prezosi who is a design engineer obviously understood the concept immediately and enacted it.
 
J4rn0 said:
I wonder why Ducati cannot be given credit for an handling improvement they've been after since Rossi is there.
Click to expand...
Too damn right, Masao could have given me a full course on it over a 10 year period & I still wouldn't understand ...., let alone interpret it into something that (hopefully) works. & That (seemingly) in a matter of weeks.



If it works in future races, full credit should be given to everyone involved. If it doesn't, full credit should be given to everyone involved!
 
J4rn0 said:
I wonder why Ducati cannot be given credit for an handling improvement they've been after since Rossi is there. Some here have written too much about Ducati being inept and incompetent, without knowing a thing about Ducati really, just facile blah blah; same for the so called 'development skills' of VR and JB, that have been ridiculed in spite of all past evidence (including the tribute paid by Furusawa himself...) and now of course they have to look for some outside source if any improvement is made, like a 2-hour revelation from Furusawa who btw reassured his ex-bosses back at Iwata that he didn't reveal any secrets; but never mind, if it wasn't Saint Furusawa then it must have been a divine intervention or plain luck -- whatever, but it cannot be that Ducati Corse, especially with Rossi-Burgess, might actually be good and able to solve problems, albeit taking a longer time than Jap giants (and t0o long for Rossi).
Click to expand...



I for one never implied that Furusawa deserves full credit for the apparent current improvement. He needn't give away "company secrets" - but nonetheless could drop enough helpful hints that the jigsaw puzzle of new and improved parts could come together as a unified picture. Some people were flabergasted months ago when I suggested that Fursusawa might lift a finger to help Ducati - but he's a guy who loves racing for the sake of racing, and racing is better when it's not just the same two competitors. Moreover - as an engineer - I reckon (even if nobody ever gave him credit) that it would be a personal point of pride to be have been the "Deep Throat" of a dramatic improvement in the Ducati. Even if the world wouldn't know - a small circle of Italian engineers sure would. People were aghast when Werner Von Braun was brought to America to work on the NASA space program and until it happened - anyone with a brain would bet the house that it would never happen. If there's one thing engineers love to do - it's solve problems, especially ones that baffle everybody else.
 
Keshav said:
I for one never implied that Furusawa deserves full credit for the apparent current improvement. He needn't give away "company secrets" - but nonetheless could drop enough helpful hints that the jigsaw puzzle of new and improved parts could come together as a unified picture. Some people were flabergasted months ago when I suggested that Fursusawa might lift a finger to help Ducati - but he's a guy who loves racing for the sake of racing, and racing is better when it's not just the same two competitors. Moreover - as an engineer - I reckon (even if nobody ever gave him credit) that it would be a personal point of pride to be have been the "Deep Throat" of a dramatic improvement in the Ducati. Even if the world wouldn't know - a small circle of Italian engineers sure would. People were aghast when Werner Von Braun was brought to America to work on the NASA space program and until it happened - anyone with a brain would bet the house that it would never happen. If there's one thing engineers love to do - it's solve problems, especially ones that baffle everybody else.
Click to expand...

More so when revelations about his activities as an SS officer during the war began to emerge.
 
The spacesuit, how many Jewish lives did it claim in those pressure experiments?
 
J4rn0 said:
I wonder why Ducati cannot be given credit for an handling improvement they've been after since Rossi is there. Some here have written too much about Ducati being inept and incompetent, without knowing a thing about Ducati really, just facile blah blah; same for the so called 'development skills' of VR and JB, that have been ridiculed in spite of all past evidence (including the tribute paid by Furusawa himself...) and now of course they have to look for some outside source if any improvement is made, like a 2-hour revelation from Furusawa who btw reassured his ex-bosses back at Iwata that he didn't reveal any secrets; but never mind, if it wasn't Saint Furusawa then it must have been a divine intervention or plain luck -- whatever, but it cannot be that Ducati Corse, especially with Rossi-Burgess, might actually be good and able to solve problems, albeit taking a longer time than Jap giants (and t0o long for Rossi).
Click to expand...

+1

Good post.

By the way,didn't Preziosi say that talks and visits like these are going on all the time,between many people,not just this one with him and Furuzawa.That he was surprised it went public.

With the developingrate Ducati has,I would be surprised this visit/talk would be the reason that has turned everything around.In the future maybe.I don't know.
 
I think the slowness of updates this year really does stem back to the Audi transaction as previously speculated. Things seem to have now picked up in that area which would support this view.



I hope they have figured out the road ahead now - they seem to have found some direction. If they are competitive next year, it can only help the series.
 
J4rn0 said:
I wonder why Ducati cannot be given credit for an handling improvement they've been after since Rossi is there. Some here have written too much about Ducati being inept and incompetent, without knowing a thing about Ducati really, just facile blah blah; same for the so called 'development skills' of VR and JB, that have been ridiculed in spite of all past evidence (including the tribute paid by Furusawa himself...) and now of course they have to look for some outside source if any improvement is made, like a 2-hour revelation from Furusawa who btw reassured his ex-bosses back at Iwata that he didn't reveal any secrets; but never mind, if it wasn't Saint Furusawa then it must have been a divine intervention or plain luck -- whatever, but it cannot be that Ducati Corse, especially with Rossi-Burgess, might actually be good and able to solve problems, albeit taking a longer time than Jap giants (and t0o long for Rossi).
Click to expand...



Wait wait, u said they (Ducati) didnt do anything special for VR. Maybe u havent been paying attention the last 18 months, but VR results have been ..... Every change they have made has resulted in .... performance. Now suddenly VR/JB are geniuses because they made podium last event, despite a very good explanation why the circumstances created a perfect storm?



Ok, lets put ur theory to test. I believe the last time two Ducs made the podium was at Aragon. So we can say its a Ducati track. So lets make a bet, a little wager. Lets bar rain or any crashes/strange retirements by a prototype bike (except for Ducatis), if VR makes the podium again, i will declare u are right, "VR/JB are development genius". If he doesnt make the podium, u must declare i am right, "VR/JB are development morons." Bet?





Btw, i agree, i think if any improvements have been made, they are because Ducati made them. But more likely a departure from VR/JBs input. As all the inputs those two have made have resulted in .....
 
What's the consensus opinion of Ducati's test rider(s)?



(Faahk, I can't remember the dude's name...)



It seems that at least half the .... tested by Flossi and Haystack gets rejected. IMO, they should hire someone like Corser, Gibbers, or a more recent MotoGP refugee (someone familiar with the 'Stones). Have this person attend ALL of the official test sessions so that the team can correlate his feedback with that of the factory riders. Then turn this dude lose at Duc's test track and feed him a steady diet of frame, swingarm, software, etc. updates and tweaks.



As it stands, the impression is that Duc drags their ... for months, only to deliver useless parts. Whatever the reason, this needs to stop immediately.
 
yamaka46 said:
Stop being a .... on all the threads. I'm sure we all got the point and mostly don't give a .....
Click to expand...



Ugh? Scratch. Uhm, sorry, i missed it but i dont see him being a .... on all the threads. R u sure ur not confusing him with somebody else?
<
 

Similar threads

Pigeon
Ducati unveil 2010 MotoGP contender
Replies
19
Views
3K
frosty58
F
J4rn0
Ducati GP10 big-bang
2
Replies
24
Views
7K
gsfan
G

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top