Luck may have held him for a few races. A full season? Unlikely.. but possible.
Rossi however has been runner up for three seasons running, a period over which he (cumulatively) leads Lorenzo by 32 pts and lags Marquez by 33 pts.
Rossi however has been runner up for three seasons running, a period over which he (cumulatively) leads Lorenzo by 32 pts and lags Marquez by 33 pts.
What did I miss? Lowes-Zarco post-Silverstone? [Minor stuff IMO (rel. to MotoGP).] Or something else?
Either way, I followed every moment of the racing and a good bit of the practice sessions (the best race last season, across the three classes, was Moto2-Valencia IMO). Which is kinda the point, in that I started following the sport because of the compelling narrative built up in the premier class.
Some people no doubt would have been turned off after all the controversies but I doubt even they'd drop it. It takes some strong passion to swear off a sport and I doubt somebody that passionate about it could stop following/watching/attending it.
In any case, attendance figures at Phillip Island surpassed last year's.
Raceday-
2015: 35,200
2016: 37,000
That's the best showing since Stoner's final season.
There's some truth to that. But it ought to be seen in perspective. How many major sports aren't dominated by rich, privileged sportsmen? Its inevitable really - as the viewer base (& financial base) expands; pay for all involved (not just the riders) will improve. An unfortunate side-effect being that it'll make the riders less accessible to the (expanded) public/fanbase.
Also if anything, GP riders are less pampered than their peers in other sports, particularly in term of the kind of risks they take and the injuries they can and do sustain, and then, more often than not, ride through on race day.
What might have been is a speculative question but yeah.. they should've gotten started years ago.
In a (finally) seriously competitive season, during which an Aussie won a race, thus many people were drawn by the dream of a competitive ride but many also drawn because the results was genuinely up in the air.
Aussies generally love an underdog and do not generally support people who are expected to win (there are exceptions of course) as opposed to who Aussies hope will win.
Besides which, an 1800 increase in spectators is not that great and could easily be explained for a number of reasons (FWIW, were it not for the over the top policing on the road to/from PI, the crowd would be higher again).
In Oz, we have what is called the 'tall poppy syndrome' so as a general rule, we do not heap praise on people who have excelled or whom we feel are paid exorbitant amounts of money for what may be seen as a sport (this also applies to business and Aussie athletes are also on the receiving end) or who seemingly have large ego's. This of course does not correlate to hatred or failure to recognise the abilities of those involved and it is a relatively unique thing to try to explain to people not knowing it exists (Aussies can both boo and abuse whilst also cheering the same sportsman - Richard Hadlee is a good example).
The rider accessibility today is certainly greater than 5 years ago and Rossi has led that aspect, the use of the various social media have allowed him to create a brand and he has set the tone for those to follow, which as history has shown those that are not as social media savvy will fall behind.
The real area where that accessibility is long gone or going is the physical interaction between rider and fan which (this is quite a sad part for me) is often caused by the fan believing they have some form of ownership and encroaching into the riders privacy, often in an aggressive or abusive manner which sees many riders controlling these interactions rather than the random of years past.
There is of course much more to it that the above.
As for less pampered that likely depends on one's view but from what I have seen or read they are certainly less pampered in many ways than other athletes but to many an average Joe, they are still overly pampered, but as I said earlier in many ways this is borne from necessity and a result of circumstance than a personality trait.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I only referred to 2016. And by luck, I don't mean dumb fortune - like someone clumsily tripping over his shoes and landing in a bed of roses. Nor should the inference be that Rossi accomplishments should be diminished. It's just a mathematic draw of the cards wherein (unlike in the previous decade) an unprecedented number of riders (who were not on full factory Hondas or Yamahas) found their way to the top of the podium.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
The drama, controversy and even on occasions, the dirty riding.
I agree that it has produced great racing over the years but It's a formula that was flawed in its inception ans also far from immune from the shenanigans and melodrama that you perceive has blighted other series or classes.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
It won't happen but I would like to see 500 twins as the intermediate class, the single engine supplier gone and all the marques contesting. That would be far more interesting than the current formula.
Two fold actually JPS although Norman is synonomous with Aussie golf.
Not sure quite how to put it JPS but a lot of his collapses were offset by the 'fluke' shots of others than beat him in majors (ie. Larry Mize chip kind of offsets the feeling about the Masters collapse).
That said, Norman is credited (rightfully) with a lot in terms of golfing in Oz but he is also not as well looked at as are some other golfers who may not have achieved as much (sadly much of this is due to those others 'lower' profiles)
When you talk of Norman often it will spring to the 'nearly man' or the 'what could have been' type of discussions because in so many ways, his results do not suit his skills of the time.
He did go through a 'tall poppy' thing and has been subject of ridicule with the collapses (the saying was for some time 'to do a shark/greg/norman' if you fell apart in a sport).
Now days he is recognised as an ambassador even if he speaks with an American lilt as he has and continues to open a lot of doors for Australian business and sportspeople in the US.
Essentially he went from admired, to ridicule for the losses (still in many ways admired), to a feeling of being sorry for him, to ridicule (public marriage split), to admired etc
Speaking personally, I never ridiculed him as I have caddied at some major Australian tournaments and have seen how easy it is to have an off day (was off 6 myself, way to easy). Caddied for a guy who started in 5th one day and he simply could not get going, nerves, one bad shot and his mind simply could not get back nor could his swing no matter what we tried, he shot a 79 on the day and went from 5th to finish 23rd.
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Issue I see with 500cc twins could be the capability to produce sufficient horsepower and similarity to the bigger bikes that if/when riders progress to MGP they are adequately prepared.
That said, this years graduates seem to be doing fine but then, so did JL all those years ago.
Maybe, just maybe the answer may be to allow rookies twice the number of test days to acclimatise pre-season?
Well Lorenzo was about one lap away from being passed by Dovizioso, and Espargaro & Vinales were closing in as well.
But even if that wasn't a factor, fact still is that both Rossi & Lorenzo crashed out on.. lets call them Hail Mary rides at Motegi. Had Marquez not been in the picture, they both might have ridden more conservatively to finish the race but Rossi would still have ended his season ahead of Lorenzo (maybe even by a larger margin, had he won at Motegi).
Tyre degradation was an issue for the Yamaha but it was far from crippling. At least for Rossi. He finished the second half of the season (nine races) with six podiums and another two 4th places, scoring 138 pts, more than any other rider including Marquez (117 pts).
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Actually my point was quite the contrary. IMO the shenanigans and melodrama has done an excellent job of expanding the sport's appeal among those previously outside of the motorsport culture. And once they're in, and start to understand it, they can appreciate the racing for itself. Come for the ambience, stay for the food.
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The problem is that Rossi, creditably competitive as he is at this stage of his career, doesn't have the pace to beat MM even on a flawed Honda if MM takes the decision not to throw his bike down the road, a lesson he learnt in 2015 and put into practice in 2016, with Valentino's superior points score in the last 9 races fairly irrelevant since MM in all reality won the title rather easily, riding conservatively until he clinched the title then throwing caution to the wind afterwards. Valentino also didn't have the pace at the end of the 2015 season to close out the title against Lorenzo in 2015 with MM out of contention.
Lorenzo on the other hand has shown the ability to be faster than everyone, even MM, on a Yamaha shod with tyres that suit him. I still think Yamaha's best chance was to back Jorge and lobby for high edge grip tyres. Perhaps Vinales will prove up to the challenge, but like others I am not as yet convinced he has the race craft or is able to sustain his pace through a whole race with sufficient consistency.
All of these multiple championship guys ride to win championships and then races anyway, with no-one remembering who got 2nd rather than 3rd. Do you think Valentino cared about Pedrosa relegating him to 3rd in 2007? He was working towards winning the 2008 title, pushing Yamaha in regard to their 2008 engine, no matter whether early versions of that engine blew up or ran out of fuel initially in the late races of 2007 after the championship was decided.
We shall see what percentage of such fans stay; for many of them if they do I suspect it will be only to support Valentino's race team.
As I said earlier on, bike racing "fans" who cheer when riders other than the one they favor crash out of races and boo them on the podium are imo a blight on what was previously one of the true sports by the Hemingway definition, and it is my hope they will revert to being glory hunting soccer hooligans when Valentino retires.
Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
I felt the tyres last year attributed to many of the crashes which in turn led to the early outcome of the championship. I know at Motegi when Marquez took the flag that the front end wash outs of both the Yamaha's came on with no warning to the either rider ... both of them scratching their heads.
I think the performance gap between the riders and teams was closer last year than it was in 2015 but because of all the crashes and unpredictable tyres this wasn't really reflected in the championship points tally. I'm really hoping for a last round championship decider in 2017 like we saw in 2015, Marquez vs Vinales maybe.
I think the performance gap between the riders and teams was closer last year than it was in 2015 but because of all the crashes and unpredictable tyres this wasn't really reflected in the championship points tally. I'm really hoping for a last round championship decider in 2017 like we saw in 2015, Marquez vs Vinales maybe.
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Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
My 500 manages to develop a woping 67 bhp
but thats only after a rebuild and new jets fitted etc etc, someone was telling me to nitro it but I feel thats taking the piss a bit as its only a twin. Mind you its great embarrassing the sports bikes round corners, sadly to let them past on the straights :giggle:Marquez is the best rider on the grid today, no two ways about that. In fact, had he ridden sensibly in 2015, he might have contested the title against Lorenzo.
My point, however, was that the Yamaha's results did not, in fact, deteriorate over the latter half of the season. At least for Rossi.
That's also a gamble in many ways. Superb as he is when the setup, tyres and conditions are good, Lorenzo might end up at the other extreme when the situation calls on him to ride around the problem (ref: FP3 Phillip Island 2016; 21st place behind Rabat).
There's no point finishing 15 seconds ahead of Marquez in one race, only to finish 5 places behind in the next one.
Still, Yamaha did put the 'best' contract he'd ever been offered on the table, he felt it was time for a change of scenery and assumed (not unreasonably) that he could contend for the championship on a steadily improving Ducati, a bike that had registered 8 podiums the year before, and almost registered a 2-3 finish at Qatar, all under riders who were good but well short of alien material.
Wasn't much Yamaha could do about that. Though given Vinales' long term prospects, it seems to have worked out quite well for them.
Rossi may not have cared in 2007 but I'd say Lorenzo definitely cared in 2016.
More importantly, if Marquez has a 2014-like season, neither Rossi, nor Lorenzo would have a chance. But Marquez isn't a sure thing - he was too close to disaster several times in the season and his pts cushion at the end wasn't really large enough to accomodate more than one major mishap.
And if something like that happened in 2017, a rider like Rossi who could be relied upon to be not just consistent but fast in all conditions & on all tyre types would be a stronger bet to capitalise on the situation. On Bridgestones, he finished just 5 pts behind Lorenzo. On Michelins, if not for the Mugello incident, he'd have finished 46 pts ahead.
I don't know about 'true sports' and I've never read anything by Hemingway but booing I've seen plenty of. In a wide variety of major sport. Practically inevitable once an event reaches a level of prominence. That's just the way of the world.
One view is that its better for the sport to remain smaller but... classier (sort of). I think that's wrong and that we ought be striving to share it with as many people as possible, even if that means letting in the would-be fanatics.
You just don't get it do you? MM and Lorenzo certainly do and did, hence their remarks about the booing after the 2015 end of season imbroglio.
Hemingway was a journalist among other things as well as writing works of fiction, and there is a famous quote (or perhaps formerly famous given our discussion) from him about sport, something like "There are only 3 sports, bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering, all the rest are merely games", his point being I believe that competitors risked their lives in those pursuits, very much so in motor sport in his day of course. This is the thing about gp bike racing, it is still dangerous, and was even more so when the old fogeys on here were following it at the height of the 500 two stroke era when the bikes were absolutely vicious. Many are bike riders themselves and hence aware of the dangers of riding in general. Hence the disdain for so-called fans who treat the sport and the competitors as though it is soccer or lacrosse, or perhaps view the whole thing as some sort of advanced feature video game.
