Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Will miss vr
I have watched motogp from a long time now and whenever watched a race was supporting rossi and will do so in the future as well. Cannot imagine a motogp race without rossi. But nowadays his winning ratio has decreased but still hopeful one season he might lift the 10th world title before he retires.
The 2015 season was eventful with lot of awesome actions from valentino and marc. But without valentino cannot imagine any other rider big enough to fill in his shoes. Really who can else can replace the charisma, speed, popularity of rossi.?
I have watched motogp from a long time now and whenever watched a race was supporting rossi and will do so in the future as well. Cannot imagine a motogp race without rossi. But nowadays his winning ratio has decreased but still hopeful one season he might lift the 10th world title before he retires.
The 2015 season was eventful with lot of awesome actions from valentino and marc. But without valentino cannot imagine any other rider big enough to fill in his shoes. Really who can else can replace the charisma, speed, popularity of rossi.?
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Most facing fans I know, don't really care about charisma. It's the racing that matters. Where racing is concerned - there's plenty of riders who are faster. Popularity? Who cares? Lady Gaga and Amitabh Bachchan are popular. Marquez is fast.
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Plenty? Doubt it.
At the moment, only Marquez is convincingly faster. Lorenzo was at roughly the same level on a Yamaha. Vinales, though promising, is still a work-in-progress.
Not so sure.
I would say that plenty are faster when you look at lap times, but out of that plenty, very few are faster across an entire race which is where Rossi excels, race management.
Pedantic yes and in terms of championship, only races matter but being fast does not make one the fastest when it matters as they say (I keep telling the wife that as well but she just gives me a GTFO look)
No doubt he is amazingly fast still, particularly at age 38 or whatever it is now.
I think he is no longer as fast as Lorenzo when Lorenzo has tyres which suit him, which he didn't have last year. He was always faster than Pedrosa except for the odd race, and it looks as though he still will be this year.
Some of the others you don't know how fast they would be on a factory Honda or Yamaha, but they would still little or no doubt lack his race craft and ability to set up and make passes etc, where he is still likely to be Vinales' superior this year imo.
The idea that there is no GP bike racing without Rossi as the earlier poster implied is what many on here find problematic, having followed and enjoyed GP bike racing before Rossi ever threw his leg over a bike, and finding the circus aspect of the Rossi era and disrespect for other riders, no matter how well performed, unpalatable, however extraordinary Rossi's talent and achievements may be.
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He's upped his game again. Last year, Rossi had 12 front row starts, same as Lorenzo and just short of Marquez (who had 13).
Aside from Vinales, I don't think there's anybody else in the field who's at par with Rossi even on single lap pace. Not when averaged across all circuits and track conditions.
He usually doesn't push a lot in practice sessions, giving the impression that he's short on pure speed, but he's really not.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
So - Marquez is the only one to ever beat Rossi? Rossi is more consistently on the podium than some of the less experienced riders - but hasn't won as many races, as in years past. In 2016 Lorenzo won 4 races. Rossi - only two. Two to one is pretty "convincing" to me. Over the course of the season Rossi on a full factory bike with the best mechanics in the business, was beaten four times by "lesser" riders - when he wasn't being beaten by Marquez and Lorenzo. A good showing for a man of his age - but hardly "convincingly" faster.
And front row starts don't count for .... if a rider isn't capable of taking advantage of it. 12 front row starts only translated to two wins. Results don't lie.
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Given good conditions, a suitable tyre (and good rhythm) Lorenzo on an M1 is faster than both Rossi and Marquez.
But that's not enough to be 'fast' in the bigger picture. You must have a balance of precision, consistency, technique, race-craft and adaptability. That's what puts Rossi level with Lorenzo.
Also borne out by the statistics - in 2015 Lorenzo finished just 5 pts ahead and just 16 pts behind in 2016.
Well.. Dovizioso was underwhelming on a factory Honda. Iannone's too crash-prone especially when vying for a podium. Crutchlow & Pedrosa on factory Yamahas would have been interesting.
There was GP bike racing before him and there'll be GP bike racing after him.
He's been good for the sport; brought in millions of viewers (both through his antics & through controversies). He helped make the sport more accessible to the public and also inspired hundreds of budding racers. And, at age 38, he's a title contender which makes for more competitive seasons and more exciting races.
When he retires, the sport will be worse off for it as would any sport when a great sportsman retires. Life carries on anyway.
I could make the argument that Crutchlow was faster than Lorenzo last season because he clocked the fastest lap in three races while Lorenzo did so in only two.
A race is an aggregation of laps. A season is an aggregation of races.
Rossi finished the season runner up.
JKant;429585g. There was GP bike racing before him and there'll be GP bike racing after him. He's been good for the sport; brought in millions of viewers (both through his antics & through controversies). He helped make the sport more accessible to the public and also inspired hundreds of budding racers. And said:
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Yes, I began to watch in the 1990 season. But do remember Gardeners wc well. We went to speedway etc as kids with my dad or Amaroo Park etc.
The gp riders just seemed like men during the 500 era, just seem like boys now. I think the american and aussie riders from dirt track backgrounds just had something tough about them. They certainly didn't have cute little cartoons all over themselves
The gp riders just seemed like men during the 500 era, just seem like boys now. I think the american and aussie riders from dirt track backgrounds just had something tough about them. They certainly didn't have cute little cartoons all over themselves
I am nowhere near as convinced as you seem to be with some aspects of your above post, so here goes.
Has it been good for the sport?
Some say that any publicity is good publicity but is controversy all that it is cracked up to be?
Certainly there are more viewers today but one could well argue that as the sport itself moved to the digital age it would have accumulated many of these viewers anyway by sheer fact of the technology of media making the sport more accessible thus increasing viewership anyway, thus I am not sure that he should be credited with as much as he seems to be.
That said, hell yes he has bought a fanbase to the sport but I strongly suspect that many of these fans will disappear when he is gone, thus they are not fans of the sport but of Rossi himself so it is not true to say he has bought more viewers to the sport as they do not care of the sport but of Rossi. Again however, with that being said I also have no doubt that many lured by the cult of personality may well have realised that which the sport offers and as such, may well stay around when Valentino tires of the idolisation and drifts to the back ground (I believe will will continue to receive the adulation even once retired).
Is it also good for the sport that the owner/promoter has placed all of their eggs in one basket, at times detrimentally to other riders?
Has the sport itself possibly stagnated because of this?
Yes his achievement of this day are sensational for a 38 year old, but is it really that remarkable or is he just the first who has had the opportunity to continue on top flight equipment when there is an absolute dearth of top flight competitive equipment. Sure his results have been competitive and 2nd in the championship no matter one's age should not be trifled with, but one could well say that if one is on top equipment, should age really matter as should high results not be expected?
I totally disagree here but suspect that we actually agree, just that our definitions of worse off may be the sticking point.
IMO here but the sport will miss Rossi far less than Rossi will miss the sport but we will continue to be TOLD by all and sundry in the media who will continue to profer the DORNA fed line that the sport is worse off.
I suspect that the Rossi influence of sponsors will reduce (those attracted by name rather than sport) which will seemingly be a negative but at the same time, there will be more sponsors jump in as the 'buy in' price for the sport will be reduced somewhat, basically market forces will see a loss followed by a changing fo the guard.
Now, none of this should be read as anti-Rossi the person/rider and nor should it be seen to diminish that which he has achieved to day and will achieve into the future but I just am a harsh ....... when it comes to the sport I love as it is bigger than any individual but sadly, DORNA have allowed the sport to be associated with an individual rather than a bunch of individuals from a recognition view.
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I suspect that if/when he eventually leave, I will be like many and miss his involvement but likely by way of his not being mentioned, not having the yellow masses in the stands and not having the maniacal 'see no evil/hear no evil' type of fan discussion that occurs with some (this is also not just VR fans).
So yes, there is a likelihood that I will miss him being around but I suspect that it will be for a very short period of time as I also feel that the sport will be allowed to normalise somewhat without the fascination and I will not deny that I do look forward to the day when the sport moves forward to generation next with the old hats forgotten
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I understand the purist arguments, even appreciate them to some extent, but in my opinion they're myopic. Or perhaps I just have a different vision of where the sport is and where it could be. The nostalgic memories of a past Golden Age hold no appeal to me (aside from belonging to a different generation). For all the supposed accessibility to the fans (there being no 'circus'), they were really only accessible to a tiny minority of the world's population. And those who want something like that again... well I suppose that's what BSB is for.
For me, the Golden Age is the one we're living in. Racing is more exciting than its ever been. The characters are all interesting. Millions of people tune in and thus help support the event (the last of which is at least partly Rossi's legacy).
The worst part about it is that not many people follow it. Simply because its not been accessible to them. And when I say accessible, I don't mean it in the physical sense (eg. owning a TV with cable), I mean it in terms of following the narrative, getting emotionally invested in it. There are hundreds of millions who don't know what they're missing out on, and even though it would make the circus larger, getting them onboard is what the MotoGP should be aspiring to rather than settling for being the 20th most watched sport in the world (pathetic given its potential).
The critical factor in getting there is, as usual, money. This isn't a 'normal' sport. 'Normal' sports do not require machinery worth millions of dollars. Most of them need just a patch of open ground and preferably some grass. That's all there is to the entry barrier. Which is why most major sports have participation beginning at high school if not grade school.
The part about the fans exasperates me somewhat. What did we expect? Are we looking for 'fans with class'? This is the way it is because this is the way its supposed to be. Which sports don't have fanatical fans? And I mean fanatical. NFL? NBA? MMA? Cricket? Baseball? How many riots, literal riots, has association football seen over the decades?
People passionate about something (ideally short of fanaticism) is a good thing. Fanatical Rossi fans are a good thing. Fanatical Rossi haters are a good thing. Visceral debates on the internet and elsewhere are good thing (its makes the layman wonder what the fuss is about and invites him or her to weigh in).
And while there may be a downtick in viewership after Rossi retires, many many more will stay on for the racing. The 'yellow horde' wasn't born that. Most of them became fans after watching or attending races and seeing him battle, win or lose. There'll still be battles to be fought and races to be won, even after he's gone. The ones that hate Rossi can look forward to seeing Marquez break his records, the ones that love Rossi & hate Marquez can start rooting for Vinales to beat him. Or maybe someone else - perhaps a VR46 rider.
For me, the Golden Age is the one we're living in. Racing is more exciting than its ever been. The characters are all interesting. Millions of people tune in and thus help support the event (the last of which is at least partly Rossi's legacy).
The worst part about it is that not many people follow it. Simply because its not been accessible to them. And when I say accessible, I don't mean it in the physical sense (eg. owning a TV with cable), I mean it in terms of following the narrative, getting emotionally invested in it. There are hundreds of millions who don't know what they're missing out on, and even though it would make the circus larger, getting them onboard is what the MotoGP should be aspiring to rather than settling for being the 20th most watched sport in the world (pathetic given its potential).
The critical factor in getting there is, as usual, money. This isn't a 'normal' sport. 'Normal' sports do not require machinery worth millions of dollars. Most of them need just a patch of open ground and preferably some grass. That's all there is to the entry barrier. Which is why most major sports have participation beginning at high school if not grade school.
The part about the fans exasperates me somewhat. What did we expect? Are we looking for 'fans with class'? This is the way it is because this is the way its supposed to be. Which sports don't have fanatical fans? And I mean fanatical. NFL? NBA? MMA? Cricket? Baseball? How many riots, literal riots, has association football seen over the decades?
People passionate about something (ideally short of fanaticism) is a good thing. Fanatical Rossi fans are a good thing. Fanatical Rossi haters are a good thing. Visceral debates on the internet and elsewhere are good thing (its makes the layman wonder what the fuss is about and invites him or her to weigh in).
And while there may be a downtick in viewership after Rossi retires, many many more will stay on for the racing. The 'yellow horde' wasn't born that. Most of them became fans after watching or attending races and seeing him battle, win or lose. There'll still be battles to be fought and races to be won, even after he's gone. The ones that hate Rossi can look forward to seeing Marquez break his records, the ones that love Rossi & hate Marquez can start rooting for Vinales to beat him. Or maybe someone else - perhaps a VR46 rider.
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