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What makes an official Legend?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Nov 18 2008, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you look at the list of Official MotoGP Legends you will see both Surtees and King Kenny are listed..

http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Legends
I think povol was replying to my post , which I made before I looked up the official list, and I basically agree with him and tom.

I had a rough idea of those they would rate, with the exceptions of ( EDIT mang, ubialli) and possibly nieto which is perhaps a sign that I maybe erroneously don't rate the smaller classes highly enough. My personal definition of a legend would not be based purely on success; anyone who has won more than one title let alone larger multiples thereof is obviously fabulously good. I think eddie lawson is as good as pretty well anyone, even perhaps standing comparison with valentino not too badly, but he didn't fascinate people in the same way as valentino and some others. Mike hailwood was before my time, but even the name mike the bike has achieved quasi-mythological status, and as a schoolkid in australia in the seventies when there was virtually no coverage of F1 let alone GP bike racing I knew of agostini.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 21 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think povol was replying to my post , which I made before I looked up the official list, and I basically agree with him and tom.

I had a rough idea of those they would rate, with the possible exception of nieto which is perhaps a sign that I maybe erroneously don't rate the smaller classes highly enough.

MotoGP's rating are based on the status the clases had in that period of time. In the old days it was common that riders stayed in their class in their whole career and not nesesarily pushing upwards. You have legends in 125 and even 80cc but those days are gone. As you allready know, the smaller clases are now first of all feeder clases for MotoGP.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sally @ Nov 16 2008, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...I was surprised to see Kato there though. Yes he was a 250s champ, yes he was a major talent and yes his death was tragic but does that make him a legend? Not in my eyes...

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%<span style="font-family:ArialI agree that a Legend has to be someone that goes way beyond achieving a Championship; in fact, there are some riders with multiple Titles that would not be considered Legends. Yet in my criteria, I would give a lot of weight to the Legendary Status to any Sportsman who gave and lost his life to his Sport in the process. May not have achieved, even may not have been in the process of been able to achieve it, but this would put Kato and a couple of other Riders in there. It can also be as other Riders saw and respected his personality, Gibernau always wore Kato's number on the chest, Rossi wore Kato's number a couple of times on his bike (or helmet). So its competitors Respect and Admiration help a lot to get that Legendary Status in my opinion.

<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 23 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that a Legend has to be someone that goes way beyond achieving a Championship; in fact, there are some riders with multiple Titles that would not be considered Legends. Yet in my criteria, I would give a lot of weight to the Legendary Status to any Sportsman who gave and lost his life to his Sport in the process. May not have achieved, even may not have been in the process of been able to achieve it, but this would put Kato and a couple of other Riders in there. It can also be as other Riders saw and respected his personality, Gibernau always wore Kato's number on the chest, Rossi wore Kato's number a couple of times on his bike (or helmet). So its competitors Respect and Admiration help a lot to get that Legendary Status in my opinion.

I respect Kato and loved to watch him ride but are you really saying that any ..... (I am NOT referring to Kato here) who kills him/her self in the pursuit of the pinnacle of their sport should be given "legendary status"?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 21 2008, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MotoGP's rating are based on the status the clases had in that period of time. In the old days it was common that riders stayed in their class in their whole career and not nesesarily pushing upwards. You have legends in 125 and even 80cc but those days are gone. As you allready know, the smaller clases are now first of all feeder clases for MotoGP.

Gee ...... why doesn't anyone recognise the 50cc era!! There were some bigger legends in that than these days legends! Allthough its odd .... I allways have thought of Jan De Vries as a bit of a legend, and followed his exploits at the time, ..... though he only won once.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_cc
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 23 2008, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I respect Kato and loved to watch him ride but are you really saying that any ..... (I am NOT referring to Kato here) who kills him/her self in the pursuit of the pinnacle of their sport should be given "legendary status"?
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I wouldn't say that, but he did in a sense change the sport. We now have 800cc bies and tracks that have been modified to be as safe as possible, all pretty much in the name of Kato. So that "legendary" tale has been written in the history books.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Nov 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't say that, but he did in a sense change the sport. We now have 800cc bies and tracks that have been modified to be as safe as possible, all pretty much in the name of Kato. So that "legendary" tale has been written in the history books.

Again, not debating the "legendary" status of Kato, just the absurd statement that VHMP01 "would give a lot of weight to the legendary status [of] any sportsman who gave and lost his life to his sport in the process".
 
Actually, .... it,

it isn't about winning, giving it everything is what its about.

My absolute favourite rider is Shane Watts, raced him once and I saw a guy who was transcendental.

He won a heap of Australian Enduro C’ships, then the 6 day, then the world and then the GNCC in the US and then suffered from then on with injuries from riding too fast.

Even this year he came in from injuries and lack of bike time and won the first GNCC race.

Legend? – Completely, he won in every important arena for a dirt guy (he even has a Aus 500cc motox title.

He didn’t win multiples titles except here, but our riders often show that winning here is a bigger deal than a pay cheque.

From the one time I was in the same race as him (I won’t dishonour him by saying I raced him) I finished 10th out of 120 riders, he finished first but the gap between me and him was light years, I was on a perfect line coming through a bend on a single line track and he passed me through the trees.

A legend can do things that are beyond compression, championships are incidental.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 24 2008, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually, .... it,

it isn't about winning, giving it everything is what its about.

My absolute favourite rider is Shane Watts, raced him once and I saw a guy who was transcendental.

He won a heap of Australian Enduro C’ships, then the 6 day, then the world and then the GNCC in the US and then suffered from then on with injuries from riding too fast.

Even this year he came in from injuries and lack of bike time and won the first GNCC race.

Legend? – Completely, he won in every important arena for a dirt guy (he even has a Aus 500cc motox title.

He didn’t win multiples titles except here, but our riders often show that winning here is a bigger deal than a pay cheque.

From the one time I was in the same race as him (I won’t dishonour him by saying I raced him) I finished 10th out of 120 riders, he finished first but the gap between me and him was light years, I was on a perfect line coming through a bend on a single line track and he passed me through the trees.

A legend can do things that are beyond compression, championships are incidental.

Three thumbs up, andy - two for shane, and one for you, too!!
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 23 2008, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I respect Kato and loved to watch him ride but are you really saying that any ..... (I am NOT referring to Kato here) who kills him/her self in the pursuit of the pinnacle of their sport should be given "legendary status"?

Ok, Sorry, let me rephrase that… Yet in my criteria, I would give a lot of weight to the Legendary Status to any Sportsman who gave IT ALL FOR HIS SPORT and lost his life to IT in the process.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 24 2008, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually, .... it,

it isn't about winning, giving it everything is what its about.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 27 2008, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, Sorry, let me rephrase that… Yet in my criteria, I would give a lot of weight to the Legendary Status to any Sportsman who gave IT ALL FOR HIS SPORT and lost his life to IT in the process.
<


I guess my hang-up is with the' "to any sportsman..." part. If the sportsman was already on their way to legendary status, like Joey Dunlop for instance, I would wholeheartedly agree. But to, "give a lot of weight to the legendary status" of any ....... stupid enough to kill themselves seems wrong. Tragic accidents can and do happen, but often enough the victim has put himself in way over his ability level because his overzealousness and overconfidence has obscured clear and precise judgement. Maybe we're saying the same thing...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 27 2008, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess my hang-up is with the' "to any sportsman..." part. If the sportsman was already on their way to legendary status, like Joey Dunlop for instance, I would wholeheartedly agree. But to, "give a lot of weight to the legendary status" of any ....... stupid enough to kill themselves seems wrong. Tragic accidents can and do happen, but often enough the victim has put himself in way over his ability level because his overzealousness and overconfidence has obscured clear and precise judgement. Maybe we're saying the same thing...

Yes Mick, but people knows when a 'Sportman' is 'Giving it all to his/hers Sport' from a '....... stupid enough to kill themselves' in excess of their abilities for it.
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 28 2008, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes Mick, but people knows when a 'Sportman' is 'Giving it all to his/hers Sport' from a '....... stupid enough to kill themselves' in excess of their abilities for it.
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Must be a linguistic thing, because a "sportsman" in Canada is a yahoo who likes to run around killing things. When you use the term , it gets my back up. We use the term athlete or competitor.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 28 2008, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Must be a linguistic thing, because a "sportsman" in Canada is a yahoo who likes to run around killing things. When you use the term , it gets my back up. We use the term athlete or competitor.

Cool bro… I learnt something new from the English linguistics (at least Canada’s). I will try to give it better use from now on!
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