What makes an official Legend?

I think multiple titles should be a first requirement. And preferable multiple titles in the biggest class only. Face it, we are geeks and know of the kiddie classes but my mum only knows the names Valentino Rossi, Mick Doohan and John Surtees.
So I guess that pretty much for now only Vale can be added.

Btw I recognised most but not all names. Good history lesson. I was surprised to see Kato there though. Yes he was a 250s champ, yes he was a major talent and yes his death was tragic but does that make him a legend? Not in my eyes...

waits for the abuse to be hurled at her








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She also knows James Toseland but that is because of the BBC's Sports personality of the year performance. He is known as "that lovely boy playing the piano".

I want to say Nick is a legend now, but I have to be realistic.

KRJR has achieved much more in his career than Nicky has. Things aren't getting any easier for Nick either. Riding behind Stoner is not the fast-track to a world title or a handful of wins.

Nicky is very talented----next to McCoy I think he is one of the greatest bike control experts to ever grace GP with his presence---but he needs to rack up at least 10 wins to be a legend, imo. 10 wins and a WC during the Rossi era will make a legend out of any rider.

The way things are now, I'd say Nicky has 2 maybe 3 years max on competitive factory equipment. He needs to amass 7 wins during that time to hit 10 career wins. Seems like a bit much unless he cracks the Ducati code.

I think Nicky's career is a bit of a tragedy. Like KRJR he followed up his world title with a miserable season on uncompetitive equipment. KRJR's career went completely out the window when he decided to stay with Suzuki in MotoGP. A formula change seems, at this point, to be the prelude to Nicky's swan song.

Nicky has jumped ship, or been forced to walk the plank, but he has a great opportunity to make himself relevant again.

I say to be a legend you need at least 1 WC and double digit wins. I think those requirements are a good barometer throughout the years because even though the talent was not as deep in the past (except the golden era) they raced fewer GPs each season.

So I guess Criville passes? First and only Spanish champ with 15 wins. Plus people say he's illegitimate b/c he's unlikeable, not nearly as good as Doohan, and he got an undeserved call to the 500 class after achieving nothing in 250. Still, he makes my grade.

Good post Migs and I have to admit that I agree with your sentiments that there may be some on that list who I personally would not have there, and others missing who I believe should. It does also seem apparent that the list is primarily 125/250/500 riders as I woudl have expected to seer Jorge Martinez on the list otherwise (he is one that immediately springs to mind as does Jaarno Saarinen)

But, given it looks as though the career must be finished in order to make the list none of the modern riders are listed and IMO, to date only one MotoGP/GrandsPrix rider readily belongs and that is of course Rossi.

Aside from VR, I would also include Biaggi on the pure strength of his 250cc titles but also on his talent that was displayed in the 500cc class (not many win their first GP on the big bikes) but talent which sadly dropped away in teh four stroke era.

Of the possibles, certainly Capriossi and Pedrosa have numbers whilst the likes of Hayden, Stoner etc have a start but some way to go (IMO).

That said and done, the term 'legend' is often bandied around to frequently in terms of worldwide legend and I dare say that some on the list could be classified as legends within their country but maybe not worlwide legends.

To that end, I would agree that a legend has to be something special and whilst maybe not a multiple championship winner, should be a multiple race winner (read at least 10+) across a career of many years (injury preventions notwithstanding). They would be riders capable of winning if not dominating on a variety of tracks and in all conditions, not just one particular condition. They should also have been pioneer in some way, whether it be style, technical ability or even opening the eyes of a greater audience to the sport.

They do not have to be the most personable media savvy personality in the paddock, nor do they need to crave attantion to make the list, but they must be revered by their peers and often intimidating to those same peers.

But most of all, they have to produce results consistently over a period of time, across a variety of conditions and against a variety of worthy opponents. Only then, in my eyes can they be considered a true legend.




Garry

Legend is a big word in the world of sports. Hero's,Hall of Famers are both monikers that would be a better name for most sportrs stars.To be a legend,you have to capture the worlds imagination outside your sport,become larger than life.Names like Pele,even people who cant tell you what a soccer ball looks like,knows his name.The Babe,Arnold,Tiger, Michael,AJ,Mario,Valentino,those are legends.A lot of these riders mentioned may be legends of GP but are not legends to the point their name will never die.

What makes an official Legend ?

8 world championships helps

Being a legend is not really simply defined by winning. It has to do with having a heroic quality that captures the heart and the imagination of the public. How else to explain that nobody these days seems to ever talk about Freddie Spencer who won multiple titles including the 250 and 500cc championships in the same year? Yet Schwantz who only won one championship and was known - in his time - as an undisciplined crashing cowboy - is absolutely revered. Mamola is legendary for his multiple time runner-up status and his rampant goofiness. Biaggi will be remembered as a legendary cheeseball. Duhammel will attain legendary status not so much for his race wins - as for his hard-headedness, his grit and his determination - not to mention the insanity of his failed comeback after his dramatic crash and nightmarish injuries at an advanced age. Being a legend depends as much on style as it does substance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 17 2008, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Legend is a big word in the world of sports. Hero's,Hall of Famers are both monikers that would be a better name for most sportrs stars.To be a legend,you have to capture the worlds imagination outside your sport,become larger than life.Names like Pele,even people who cant tell you what a soccer ball looks like,knows his name.The Babe,Arnold,Tiger, Michael,AJ,Mario,Valentino,those are legends.A lot of these riders mentioned may be legends of GP but are not legends to the point their name will never die.
I agree, interestingly non of my non-bike racing friends or my mum have ever heard of Rossi, the only rider they know is Barry Sheene.

The answer to this question is in the picture below :

I think it comes down to making something bigger like Vale' has done with MOto Gp. His antics, loyal fans to the point of this site making excuses for him in situations. That type of following always bodes the question of folks to ask is he a legend. I believe he is easily. I have friends who know nothing of Motorcycle racing and somehow they have heard of Valentino. Great name and has staying power. It is different also, so that does add into the whole equasion somewhat. BUt the pure fact is that he is a winner. Not just going out there and having a decent run and winning. He does it in different fashion that makes you and I look and say "WOW", to the point of disbelief. Or like the time he crashed and I think still finished on the podium. Hmmmm I think another guy just did that huh?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Nov 18 2008, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmmm I think another guy just did that huh?



Sweet rock, sweet...

Only 3 legends for me, those who have transcended the sport/captured the zeitgeist or whatever; mike hailwood, giacomo agostini and valentino rossi.

On the next tier and perhaps as good purely as riders as some of the aforementioned; sheene, roberts senior, lawson, rainey and doohan. I guess arguably sheene made quite an impact on the mainstream as well.

Surtees is in a category of one as a legend of motorsport.

Perhaps it is a sign that I am shallow, but I can't rate those who didn't back up success even if extreme in the smaller classes with success in the big show as legends.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 18 2008, 06:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Only 3 legends for me, those who have transcended the sport/captured the zeitgeist or whatever; mike hailwood, giacomo agostini and valentino rossi.

On the next tier and perhaps as good purely as riders as some of the aforementioned; sheene, roberts senior, lawson, rainey and doohan. I guess arguably sheene made quite an impact on the mainstream as well.

Surtees is in a category of one as a legend of motorsport.

Perhaps it is a sign that I am shallow, but I can't rate those who didn't back up success even if extreme in the smaller classes with success in the big show as legends.


Im with you,everybody cant be legends.I tell you one that maybe should be considered a legend is King Kenny.He revolutionized motorcyle racing when he introduced the hanging off the bike knee sliding technique.To me when you change the sport like he did,that makes you a legend

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 18 2008, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Im with you,everybody cant be legends.I tell you one that maybe should be considered a legend is King Kenny.He revolutionized motorcyle racing when he introduced the hanging off the bike knee sliding technique.To me when you change the sport like he did,that makes you a legend
Although I completely agree with you about the revolutionary influence of KRsnr, the idea that he invented the hanging off knee sliding technique is completely fallacious. I've personally always attributed the latter to Saarinen, but apparently this too is a misconception. According to an article I was reading this week the actual architect of this technique was John Cooper who was perfecting this way back in the mid '60s and was maligned by many at the time for his untidy style. Transferring his weight into inside of the turn, he found his leg turned outwards and it wasn't long until the knee was skimming the deck. You can definitely find photographic evidence of Saarinen doing this, but I doubt if any can be found to corroborate the fact that Cooper was 'touching down' over forty years ago!

To be fair, it wasn't given any real credence until KR popularised it...I guess the three world championships that followed may just have vindicated his style.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Nov 18 2008, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you look at the list of Official MotoGP Legends you will see both Surtees and King Kenny are listed..

http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Legends

Yes thats true but being a legend of your sport could also be someone no one has ever heard of.A legend is someone that crosses lines and goes beyond.For example,even if you are not a race car fan,your riding in a car with someone and they are driving fast and you say,WTF is the hurry Mario.Its really hard to explain how some figures capture the imagination of the general populace,not just specific fans of specific sports.Take Muhaamad Ali,even if you are not, or never was a boxing fan,you knew who he was,and what he did.When you look at it from that point of view,even Rossi would not be a legend.Legend of his sport, of course,the #1 legend but if you went to all corners of the earth, polled the general public,i doubt 20% could tell you who Valentino Rossi is and what he does for a living.When you narrow down the definition of a legend to those terms,the list gets small in a hurry.This is fun though,think of any sport that pops in your head and whos name comes to mind immediatley.Then ask yourself,would he be known the world over,thats a legend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Nov 18 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although I completely agree with you about the revolutionary influence of KRsnr, the idea that he invented the hanging off knee sliding technique is completely fallacious. I've personally always attributed the latter to Saarinen, but apparently this too is a misconception. According to an article I was reading this week the actual architect of this technique was John Cooper who was perfecting this way back in the mid '60s and was maligned by many at the time for his untidy style. Transferring his weight into inside of the turn, he found his leg turned outwards and it wasn't long until the knee was skimming the deck. You can definitely find photographic evidence of Saarinen doing this, but I doubt if any can be found to corroborate the fact that Cooper was 'touching down' over forty years ago!

To be fair, it wasn't given any real credence until KR popularised it...I guess the three world championships that followed may just have vindicated his style.
Cool,i had never heard that before.I just went and found an article about Saarinen and it said he started the technique when he was ice racing and brought it with him to road racing and KR perfected it.Thanks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 17 2008, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Legend is a big word in the world of sports. Hero's,Hall of Famers are both monikers that would be a better name for most sportrs stars.To be a legend,you have to capture the worlds imagination outside your sport,become larger than life.Names like Pele,even people who cant tell you what a soccer ball looks like,knows his name.The Babe,Arnold,Tiger, Michael,AJ,Mario,Valentino,those are legends.A lot of these riders mentioned may be legends of GP but are not legends to the point their name will never die.

Pov, even your definition leaves room for doubt: when I read Michael I have no idea if you are referring to Schumacher or Jordan? Is "Arnold" Schwarzenegger or Palmer? You're dating yourself if you think anyone under the age of 25 who doesn't know what a football looks like, knows who Pele is. Legendary status is a living thing defined by the generation and the knowledge of the beholder.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 18 2008, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A legend is someone that crosses lines and goes beyond.When you narrow down the definition of a legend to those terms,the list gets small in a hurry.This is fun though,think of any sport that pops in your head and whos name comes to mind immediatley.Then ask yourself,<u>would he be known the world over</u>,thats a legend.

So by your definition its a popularity contest? Legends are great at what they do and talked about well beyond their time. Every basketball player that is good or great is compared to Jordan. His life and achievements will be talked about for years to come. yeah the youngsters may forget but they will be told who the great ones are.

If you take "sport" out of your definition you could place Hitler in there. Was Hitler a legend? No, because what he did was awefull, however everyone knows about him . So Legend has to be more than a popularity contest.

Will Rossi be a legend, yes. People will talk about him for years to come. The great riders will be compared to him. Do you get legend status while still performing or competing, no IMO.

I think being a legend in your sport necessarily requires achievement, or wider appeal. It's about the impact they have, and i think that takes time to establish.