What if Rossi DOES win the title this year?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 13 2008, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, not this week coz he's gettin gubbed

Pete

make up your ....... mind then...AND I QUOTE! ---TOM---
"the rider i am most impressed by is the one who wins the world championhip."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 13 2008, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>


Sorry, here is a translation for anyone who lives south of Hadrians Wall, "He has so far been relatively unsuccessful in his defense of his title. The chap is currently lying third"Apologies to non posh people fae south o the border, I'm sure you understood. (Rog, Baldy, Drill etc, I'm quite confident you worked it out.)

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 13 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course, if a rider starts thenth and makes no progress he isn't as impressive as someone who fights to a podium. But of the riders quick enough to get on the podium, the one who can qualify properley and stay at the front is more impressive than the inconsistent alternative. Ultimately though details like this become insignificant, the rider i am most impressed by is the one who wins the world championhip.

Just give in to the temptation, Tom. Say it. Say the words "Dani rarely wins because Honda builds the bike for Nicky Hayden".

It will make you feel better, and we can all be happy and go on and on about how lame Honda is.

We're about to have a breakthrough, I can feel it.

It' s funny how people underestimate experience.

Rossi is the obvious favourite this year BECAUSE there are three younger and sometimes stronger contenders fighting with him. The fact that they are three and he one, is his advantage.

These three are immensely talented but undoubtely less experienced than him, so in the long run they are likely to make a few more mistakes than him (Lorenzo) to have a little more trouble setting up the bike and feel pressure more (Stoner) and to have a certain tendency to lose dogfights (Pedrosa).

He is likely to be the most consistent and the most shrewd of the four, with all the talent needed to snatch all the wins he can whenever it is possible. The Yamaha is doing good, the Bridgestones are working better for him at each race, the other three will steal points to each other, so why not?

Of course in motor racing everything is possible, that's why it is so fascinating, but Rossi is the clear favourite for the 2008 title IMHO. It would probably be his last crown in MotoGP, because it is also true that time isn't working for him. But this year it is probably going to end up like this:

1. Rossi
2. Pedrosa
3. Lorenzo
4. Stoner

And yes... If Rossi can really do it, it will be very, very difficult for anybody to match his achievements as it would mean (even leaving 125 and 250 aside) to win 6 Premier Class titles across 3 different formulas, on 2 different bikes and using 2 different brands of tyres. And - fighting against 3 different generations of adversaries...!

......................!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rossi_fan @ May 13 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's funny. I actually think Dani will win it this year. That Rossi is past his prime and the only reason he won in china is because Jorge was hurt.

championship at the end of the year

Dani
Casey
Jorge
Rossi

you watch.

i do agree that rossi isnt "as" good as he used to be but im sorry i dont agree with you about jorge, rossi would have beat anyone in china the pace was storming, we know lorenzo was injured but not as bad as everyone makes out i dont think his injury played much on the possition he was in at the end. to me it looked as if rossi could have gone quicker if he needed to.

i do think tho that if stoner had the setup rite it would have been between him and rossi cos i honestly thought stoner was gonna do a runaway with everyone chasing him..

dani has a massive chance of taking the crown this year but i hope rossi wins it and next year also just to put the naysayers to rest

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 13 2008, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Passing skills are admirable of course, but i think less admirable than a rider who is able to lead from the front, control the race and be superior enough to stay clear of the high risk situations involved in scrapping for everything. Watching close races and seeing riders cut through the pack is exciting, and admirable as they are feats we do not expect to see (like riding injured), but In the greater scheme of things fighting through the pack is not worth extra merit and nore is getting injured and riding in pain (although both are exciting to watch). I don't think a rider who disadvantages himself is better than one whos judgement and skill keeps him out of trouble.

wow is this real???? you might be happy watching races where riders finish in the possition they started but i dont...not every single race anyway

a rider cant lead from the front everytime unless there setup is bang on or they have some sort of advantage... judgement and skill isnt worth .... when you cant be 100% sure of getting your setup rite to lead from the front everytime??

sorry but i think seing a rider storming throuh the pack is very exciting who ever that rider maybe, its much better than seing a rider start from pole and finishing first, seing a hungry rider fighting for a victory is way better than just starting at the front and finishing in the same possition thats as boring as a stale turd.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 14 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It' s funny how people underestimate experience.

Rossi is the obvious favourite this year BECAUSE there are three younger and sometimes stronger contenders fighting with him. The fact that they are three and he one, is his advantage.

These three are immensely talented but undoubtely less experienced than him, so in the long run they are likely to make a few more mistakes than him (Lorenzo) to have a little more trouble setting up the bike and feel pressure more (Stoner) and to have a certain tendency to lose dogfights (Pedrosa).

He is likely to be the most consistent and the most shrewd of the four, with all the talent needed to snatch all the wins he can whenever it is possible. The Yamaha is doing good, the Bridgestones are working better for him at each race, the other three will steal points to each other, so why not?

Of course in motor racing everything is possible, that's why it is so fascinating, but Rossi is the clear favourite for the 2008 title IMHO. It would probably be his last crown in MotoGP, because it is also true that time isn't working for him. But this year it is probably going to end up like this:

1. Rossi
2. Pedrosa
3. Lorenzo
4. Stoner

And yes... If Rossi can really do it, it will be very, very difficult for anybody to match his achievements as it would mean (even leaving 125 and 250 aside) to win 6 Premier Class titles across 3 different formulas, on 2 different bikes and using 2 different brands of tyres. And - fighting against 3 different generations of adversaries...!

......................!

Excellent post.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ May 14 2008, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>wow is this real???? you might be happy watching races where riders finish in the possition they started but i dont...not every single race anyway

a rider cant lead from the front everytime unless there setup is bang on or they have some sort of advantage... judgement and skill isnt worth .... when you cant be 100% sure of getting your setup rite to lead from the front everytime??

sorry but i think seing a rider storming throuh the pack is very exciting who ever that rider maybe, its much better than seing a rider start from pole and finishing first, seing a hungry rider fighting for a victory is way better than just starting at the front and finishing in the same possition thats as boring as a stale turd.
I don't disagree that it is exciting to watch someone carve through a field, but I think with the number of competitive bikes and riders these days it is a luxury even rossi can no longer afford; if he hangs back to avoid first corner/first lap carnage and warm up his tyres as has been his career long practice pedrosa or lorenzo will be gone as stoner often was last year. I think he will get to the front as soon as he can from now on, and I think this is one of the reasons he switched to bridgestones as they seemed to warm up quicker, last year anyway. As has been said before pedrosa and stoner if he becomes competitive again seem to thrive as front-runners, so his best bet is not to let them get a lead.

I know he was quoted on MotoGP.com some months ago saying something like he sees himself racing bikes for a few more years, but I can't help to wonder if he'll retire after this year should he take the title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 14 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Rossi can really do it, it will be very, very difficult for anybody to match his achievements as it would mean (even leaving 125 and 250 aside) to win 6 Premier Class titles across 3 different formulas, on 2 different bikes and using 2 different brands of tyres. And - fighting against 3 different generations of adversaries...!
Good point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 14 2008, 08:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't disagree that it is exciting to watch someone carve through a field, but I think with the number of competitive bikes and riders these days it is a luxury even rossi can no longer afford; if he hangs back to avoid first corner/first lap carnage and warm up his tyres as has been his career long practice pedrosa or lorenzo will be gone as stoner often was last year. I think he will get to the front as soon as he can from now on, and I think this is one of the reasons he switched to bridgestones as they seemed to warm up quicker, last year anyway. As has been said before pedrosa and stoner if he becomes competitive again seem to thrive as front-runners, so his best bet is not to let them get a lead.

i agree mate thats a really good point i have noticed he rides the bike differently too, what your saying is true about him trying to get ahead from as soon as it go time because i think in qatar rossi missjudged the stones a bit pushing a little to hard on them in the first few laps and shreading the rubber.

i will miss his coming from the back runners tho showing everyone the art of overtaking i hope i still see this in a few races because watching assen last season i broke many things in the house over the excitement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ May 14 2008, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know he was quoted on MotoGP.com some months ago saying something like he sees himself racing bikes for a few more years, but I can't help to wonder if he'll retire after this year should he take the title.


Good point.

rossi said 4-5 more years last season so i dont think another tittle will stop him its about the love for racing as much as it is the tittle, he will continue for a bit more with or without it.

i know he wants to win the tittle again but he will continue to race just like capirossi, he said 5 years but id say he is more than likely to stay for 3 to round it off to 10 titles

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ May 14 2008, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sorry but i think seing a rider storming throuh the pack is very exciting who ever that rider maybe, its much better than seing a rider start from pole and finishing first, seing a hungry rider fighting for a victory is way better than just starting at the front and finishing in the same possition thats as boring as a stale turd.

I agree, and said so in a previous post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree, and said so in a previous post.
yes you did, but you also said this

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>There are no extra points for bad qualifying or getting crap starts. It doesn't matter how you get there, being at the front every race is what it takes.

perhaps now you see how stupid that sounded !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 14 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes you did, but you also said this



perhaps now you see how stupid that sounded !
The problem with a forum such as this, is that your own words tend to repeat on you, can be easily regurgatated and are always unpalletable when you are forced to eat them. Bon Appetite Tom!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 14 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes you did, but you also said this



perhaps now you see how stupid that sounded !

Is it really difficult for people to understand the difference between the riding skills that i find most impressive and the races that are most exciting? Or the rider who is the best and the rider who is my favorite?

Its not like its complicated. This season i have found a few of the superbike races more exciting than gp, but that doesn't necessarily mean superbike riders are more impressive because the motogp guys are still better.

Just as a rider may be a fans favorite for any number of reasons besides how good they are at riding. If not then riders at the back of the grid would have no fans at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2008, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it really difficult for people to understand the difference between the riding skills that i find most impressive and the races that are most exciting? Or the rider who is the best and the rider who is my favorite?

Its not like its complicated. This season i have found a few of the superbike races more exciting than gp, but that doesn't necessarily mean superbike riders are more impressive because the motogp guys are still better.

Just as a rider may be a fans favorite for any number of reasons besides how good they are at riding. If not then riders at the back of the grid would have no fans at all.
is it hard for you to understand why we give a rider who can not only start on pole and win but can also start way back and fight his way to the front for a podium more credence than a rider who can only win if they start from the front row.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 14 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>is it hard for you to understand why we give a rider who can not only start on pole and win but can also start way back and fight his way to the front for a podium more credence than a rider who can only win if they start from the front row.

I will apologise for presuming that we all know that finishing ahead is better, regardless of starting postion. It seems clear to me that starting 10th and winning is better than starting 2nd and finishing there. However for an equivalent finishing postion, starting higher is more impressive than not.

for my twopennoth,
i think if vale wins the title this year only one man stands above him in the list of "best of all time "
KRSR

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2008, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I will apologise for presuming that we all know that finishing ahead is better, regardless of starting postion. It seems clear to me that starting 10th and winning is better than starting 2nd and finishing there. However for an equivalent finishing position, starting higher is more impressive than not.
This is far too simplistic.

Think about the Michelin qualifier advantage for a start. If a Bridgestone rider qualifies 6th and wins it is just as impressive, if not more so, than if he had started on pole.

Also consider a rider having issues during qualifying and hence getting a poor grid slot (eg Rossi at Assen) then resolving those problems in morning warm-up and going on to win. The ability to overcome such problems is in itself impressive, let alone the ability to catch and pass many riders of high calibre, and that makes Rossi's achievement more impressive IMO than if he'd started from pole.

The corollary to your argument is also that qualifying well is as important as finishing well, but you get no points for qualifying. As you only consider the points at the end of the season to be important in determining who is the best rider, I find it unusual that you also hold this view. Surely your view point (in order to maintain consistency) should be that "it doesn't matter where they start, only where they finish in the points".