Valentino Rossi

birdman said:

...only Ben really knows whats been going on.

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I, personally, do not think that Ben has any greater insight into "what is/was going on" other than what he has experienced... just another side on a multi-faceted stone and NOT a view of the entirety!

Gaz said:

...there is no chance (all IMO before I am asked to produce evidence) that Ezpeleta was talking of Ducati.

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I disagree. Even at the time I interpreted Carmelo's statement as much more generic than the pundits seemed to think.

Mick D said:

I disagree. Even at the time I interpreted Carmelo's statement as much more generic than the pundits seemed to think.

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Fair call MickD and I recall you posting as much back when he made the comment, but personally we obviously differ.



I base my take on all the negativity that surrounded Ducati's lack of performance or real time improvements in the first few months of the season and then suddenly, relatively unprompted and from left field Ecclestone/Ezpeleta came out and made the comment and immediately my thoughts were 'what does he know and what is his role'. Mind you I could well be wrong but in some aspects when it comes to the 'the boss' I do have very suspicious minds as to his motives.

Gaz - my take is based on my opinion that it is much more likely that the clown at the top (Ezzie) stuck a size 20 red shoe in his mouth by saying what he thought people want/wanted to hear rather than him being capable of being a behind-the-scenes-master-manipulator executing some Machiavellian master plan...

Mick D said:

Gaz - my take is based on my opinion that it is much more likely that the clown at the top (Ezzie) stuck a size 20 red shoe in his mouth by saying what he thought people want/wanted to hear rather than him being capable of being a behind-the-scenes-master-manipulator executing some Machiavellian master plan...

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All good Mick and yours just like mine is likely wrong

Ah yes. The truth lies somewhere between and betwixt yet we will still enjoy our mental masturbation!

Mick D said:

Gaz - my take is based on my opinion that it is much more likely that the clown at the top (Ezzie) stuck a size 20 red shoe in his mouth by saying what he thought people want/wanted to hear rather than him being capable of being a behind-the-scenes-master-manipulator executing some Machiavellian master plan...

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I agree.

This to me sounds like they are saying they basically hired Rossi again for the corporate benefits (more exposure, more sponsors etc)



http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/183104/1/yamaha_explain_valentino_rossis_return.html

Was there ever any doubt of Vale's PR value for Yamaha?

In fact, upon reflection, this deal is as win/win as it can get for Yamaha and Rossi. Why the need for any "manipulation from above" is beyond me...

I agree Mick, the only lose really if it can be considered that, is Rossi taking a pay cut

I think Rossi will put the paycut on the balance with Ducati and all its inherent melodrama on the other side and figure he's come out ahead!

#22 said:

I agree Mick, the only lose really if it can be considered that, is Rossi taking a pay cut

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No so sure 22.



There are a few possible 'lose points' for both sides, but they are minor and far fetched given the performances of the Yamaha in 2012 and also depend heavily on one's personal view.



ie.

If Rossi does not produce race winning results (emphasis on winning as opposed to podiums) there is risk of a fan backlash (and assumptions of inferior treatment)



or



If Rossi does produce race winning results, their is a possibility of backlash from within the Lorenzo camp who may well decide to go elsewhere (and therefore removing any currently identified future for Yamaha) etc.





All long odds to occur as there is no doubt that Rossi will be ultra competitive on the machinery and of course within his own mindset just as there is no doubt that Lorenzo will want to 'prove' himself to Rossi and Yamaha.



IMO, good yet interesting times lay ahead in team Blue as the fight of two ultra high strung competitors and egos continues, just as it did in 2009/2010. Should actually be good fun to watch but there also needs to be caution that neither takes unnecessary points from the other in a championship sense later in season 2013.

Mick D said:

I think Rossi will put the paycut on the balance with Ducati and all its inherent melodrama on the other side and figure he's come out ahead!

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Mick (and all IMO of course) I doubt for this move that money means anything to Rossi as it is about his innate and selfish need to prove to himself, fans, media and other riders that he still has 'it' and is still worthy of competing at this level



IMO, he would likely have done it for a very small salary if he needed to as this is a personal quest





[and before the yellow hordes jump onto the selfish comment ................ not calling him selfish but used within context of his need and motivation to prove himself] ........................ this final comment is not aimed at you Mick

Gaz said:

Mick (and all IMO of course) I doubt for this move that money means anything to Rossi as it is about his innate and selfish need to prove to himself, fans, media and other riders that he still has 'it' and is still worthy of competing at this level



IMO, he would likely have done it for a very small salary if he needed to as this is a personal quest





[and before the yellow hordes jump onto the selfish comment ................ not calling him selfish but used within context of his need and motivation to prove himself] ........................ this final comment is not aimed at you Mick

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As a Rossi fan myself I completely agree with you. I think Valentino feels genuine shock and surprise at how his Ducati experience has changed peoples perspective of his achievements. Lets not forget he was the self proclaimed king of the motorcycle world, and who was to deny him his crown? The problem with having that level of power for so long is that 1). You believe your own hype and 2). Those living in your shadow are all too ready to steal your throne.



These are some of the most determined, self assured and ambitious to the point of flawed, people on the planet. You show a moment of weakness and it just confirms in their own minds that they are as good as, if not better than you. And they have been given 2 years to prove as much.



He needs to win not only to validate all he has accomplished, but also to prove to himself that he hasn't been living in a bubble of success. His entire identity as a competitor, as an icon. and as a person all rely heavily on his ability to prove that he is who and what he always believed until 18 months ago.



Its a big ask at this stage of his career, and for his sake I hope he has retained some semblance of competitiveness because I think MotoGP as a whole needs him to show that its biggest superstar really is worthy after all.

Mick D said:

I think Rossi will put the paycut on the balance with Ducati and all its inherent melodrama on the other side and figure he's come out ahead!

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His salary from Yamaha is only part of his renumeration.



In 2010 he made US$14M from personal sponsorship, above his salary and other riding sponsorships.



It may be he is a bit 'cheaper' these days, but I don't think he will be collecting coupons...

Mick D said:

Gaz - my take is based on my opinion that it is much more likely that the clown at the top (Ezzie) stuck a size 20 red shoe in his mouth by saying what he thought people want/wanted to hear rather than him being capable of being a behind-the-scenes-master-manipulator executing some Machiavellian master plan...

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The question for me is not whether or not Ezy actually intervened or not. I believe there's so much politics going on that really, it's just another one of those things. What is the interesting question for me, is whether Ezy should be saying these things. Is it ok for people that in postions of supposed impartiality to publicly take sides?

Gaz said:

No so sure 22.



There are a few possible 'lose points' for both sides, but they are minor and far fetched given the performances of the Yamaha in 2012 and also depend heavily on one's personal view.



ie.

If Rossi does not produce race winning results (emphasis on winning as opposed to podiums) there is risk of a fan backlash (and assumptions of inferior treatment)



or



If Rossi does produce race winning results, their is a possibility of backlash from within the Lorenzo camp who may well decide to go elsewhere (and therefore removing any currently identified future for Yamaha) etc.





All long odds to occur as there is no doubt that Rossi will be ultra competitive on the machinery and of course within his own mindset just as there is no doubt that Lorenzo will want to 'prove' himself to Rossi and Yamaha.



IMO, good yet interesting times lay ahead in team Blue as the fight of two ultra high strung competitors and egos continues, just as it did in 2009/2010. Should actually be good fun to watch but there also needs to be caution that neither takes unnecessary points from the other in a championship sense later in season 2013.

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I've said it recently and I'll say it again: i believe they're letting the devil back in (as figure of speech). I expect a lot of backroom politics and on-track nastiness. Things will get ugly. Also, I might add that joining forces with Rossi has bit 3 manufactures in the ... PR-wise when he left. I wonder if it might bite one of them twice.

Holy ...., thats amazing. Peeps actually questioning, debating, downplaying, re-inventing, revising, rational-LIESing what Ezy said and meant and the revelation that followed? Dude basically said, HE has already put VR on a competitive bike fir next year, so boppers, keep the faith, and now we want to imagine it didnt happen. U guys are ........! What more ....... proof, "evidence" do u need? Obviously none is enuf. A press release wouldnt convince u guys. U would start analyzing the words, surely saying something got lost in translation, bla bla bla.



Ezy effectively acted as VRs personal manager/agent with all the benefit and power of his office, the result was a massive bail out for Rossi to Yamaha (could have just as easily gone factory Honda under sat colors.) that is the FACT. .... all u lames asking for proof. U just as soon stick ur head up ur ... if the secret taped meetings were produced.



So typical. Its there in ur face and out come the chickenshit, prove it. Where is the press release the rookie rule was changed exclusively for Marc/HRCs predicament? It all unfolds before us, and even now more blantant and scandalous than in years past, and peeps still with feces in their eyes from head-in-... syndrome.

hawkdriver said:

Maybe just the level of commitment that Audi was going to bring to the Ducati GP effort, that bike will get better. I would think that if there was something going on behind the scenes that Rossi wouldn't be so humble about the entire ordeal, Yamaha picked him up for cheap and they are in complete control of the entire situation and they've already put him in his place both publicly and privately. He's obviously good for the sport with everyone saying as much, but he isn't going around acting like he runs the show, he knows he'll be the #2 rider and he'll be making #2 money. He just wants a good ride to end his career, he could have already left if he wanted and he certainly doesn't need to worry about money.

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Hilarious. Rossi being "humble". U havent been paying attention much. Hes been ..... slapping everybody, from Duc, to his fellow competitors, to the media and the gullible. Even when asked about all the offers of peeps throwing themselves on the table for him "pick me pick me", he threw out an arrogant barb at Dovi; " well, i better decide soon or Dovi will get more mad." Well, no .... hes pissed, he rides his heart out, while VR circulates in cruise mode (thanx Arrabi) and Dovi (and all the rest of them) are nothing more than pons on the MotoVR stage thanx to the bulk of the casual spectators.



I havent seen too many "humble" moments out of VR. Sure, the overwhelming "embarrassment" (as Stoner put it) has made him look human. But u wont know it from those saying it all Ducatis fault. They havent turned the universe upside down in 18 month...enuf. Not that they havent moved heaven and earth though, which they have. (well documented). Of course u may cite Burgess & VR quotes saying Duc havent done enuf. Well, really, "prove" it. Haha

All this conjecture that everyone is bandying about is good fun, but the fact is none of us can ever know for sure. There is no proof and there probably never will be. All we have is quote and counter quote. Reading between the lines is all well and good, but the fact is anything anyone can ever read between them is open to interpretation. Its like flogging a dead horse, arguing about the unprovable.



And I agree it is frustrating but its pointless to keep reiterating points in the hope that someday we can make sense of the ramblings of a power crazed lunatic with a disproportionate sense of self importance.