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Valencia Tests 8-9 November 2011

CRT motogp 2011 Valencia

Yonny Hernandez FTR Kawasaki 1:37.279 (-5.472sec) Wednesday



Valencia SBK 2010:

Pole 1'33.615 (Cal Crutchlow Yamaha)

Fastest lap 1'34.715 (Checa Ducati)

Supersport (600cc, street tyres)

Pole 1'35.618 (Laverty, Honda)

Fastest lap 1'37.049 (Lascorz)



Valencia SBK 2005:

Pole 1.35.676 (Troy Corser Suzuki)

Fastest Lap Race 1'36.271
 
birdman said:
CRT motogp 2011 Valencia

Yonny Hernandez FTR Kawasaki 1:37.279 (-5.472sec) Wednesday



Valencia SBK 2010:

Pole 1'33.615 (Cal Crutchlow Yamaha)

Fastest lap 1'34.715 (Checa Ducati)

Supersport (600cc, street tyres)

Pole 1'35.618 (Laverty, Honda)

Fastest lap 1'37.049 (Lascorz)



Valencia SBK 2005:

Pole 1.35.676 (Troy Corser Suzuki)

Fastest Lap Race 1'36.271
Click to expand...



I wish u would state ur point for the record so its registered. (This way we can recognize future backpedaling).



Here is my take, looking at those lap times bodes very promising for the CRT!!! Only a few secs off the pace, with non-front runners, on their first shake-down against bikes with years of developed superbike machines on qualifying tires with a world champ aboard.



May i remind the reader, this year we saw wildard entries who during practice times wer up to 4-5 secs off the leaders pace at times. Im sure u Aussies will remember a guy named Damian Cudlin. Yes, off the pace nearly as much as some CRTs are to the lap times above. Now consider Cudlin was on a "protoype" bike like all the other guys on the track with him at the time, u know, that prototype machine that is suddenly the greatest thing to sliced bread and anything different is met with protest and threats of leaving the sport.



Only a fool would think these CRTs with greater freedom to modify than Wsbk bikes will never equal them.



Let me ask u, Pov, and anybody else who cares to answer: Do u think CRTs and their derivatives will ever surpass the current average lap times of superbikes and 800 GP machines? YES or NO? (I say average because some lap records still stand from previous years, so to say all lap records must be crushed doesnt even happen now from year to year. )





At some point a CRT machine will surpass the lap time of an 800 GP macine. Then all the moaners will have egg on their face (assuming they are still watching the sport). Do any of these moaners and debbie downer doomstayers want to put their lame ... predictions to a wager? Put ur money where ur mouth is, who wants to take me up on a bet that at some point, a CRT entry will surpass an 800 GP lap time?



Because when that happens, the CRT will have caught up to the supposed and sudden sanctity of an 800 "prototype" GP bike. And when that happens, it will be a big .... You to all of YOU naysayers.
 
Jumkie said:
Because when that happens, the CRT will have caught up to the supposed and sudden sanctity of an 800 "prototype" GP bike. And when that happens, it will be a big .... You to all of YOU naysayers.
Click to expand...



I'm definitely not a naysayer (but .... you too Jum), but I really have no idea how the CRT bikes will go.

Theoretically, there is no reason why a CRT team can't build a chassis as good as Honda or Yam. If they can get close to the same power (lets say to within 90%), they have the same scope of electronics, same tyres, and more fuel - with enough development, and a top rider, it should be possible to get a CRT bike close to the same lap times as a GP bike.

Stoner has said that at many circuits, they can't use all the power for 90% of the lap anyway (based on the 800's). Maybe the lack of power will not be as critical.

So much will depend on getting a good rider to a CRT team (for both development and racing), and most of the top riders will not consider a CRT ride until is is shown that a CRT bike can be competitive.



As a starting point, it should be possible to build a CRT bike to be as quick as a WSBK bike. Then you are talking;

Fastest WSBK lap Valencia Pole 1'33.615 (Cal Crutchlow Yamaha)

Fastest MotoGP 800cc lap Valencia Pole 1'31.861 (Casey Stoner - QP)

Fastest MotoGP 1000cc lap Valencia Testing 1'31.806 (Dani Pedrosa)

Without guessing how much Honda and Yam will progress, now there is only a gap of just over 2.0 sec.
 
I was surprised how close sbk was to all motogp. Especially ducati. For a moment I thought it would be good to combine sbk and motogp, old guys, young, CRT, factories. Then I thought, Ben spies won sbk. I followed every race that year. I figured this guy is the one! Then he went to motogp, he got to the factory ride, but he's not quite there. Is the 0.5 sec he's off by a result of 800's being harder to ride than sbk or is it the competition is that much tougher or both? I think for motogp to remain viable the bikes have to be harder to ride and faster like 500's always were. No sbk champion has ever made it in motogp which says something about what it takes to ride the best bikes in the world.



The position for future back pedaling is CRT must get ahead and stay ahead of sbk. If they can't do that, for me they fail. If they can, great, im not thrilled they might use production engines to advertise themselves as separate entities, but if the engine supplier is also listed and credited then I don't have any problem with it really. Prototype to me only means fastest.
 
birdman said:
I was surprised how close sbk was to all motogp. Especially ducati. For a moment I thought it would be good to combine sbk and motogp, old guys, young, CRT, factories. Then I thought, Ben spies won sbk. I followed every race that year. I figured this guy is the one! Then he went to motogp, he got to the factory ride, but he's not quite there. Is the 0.5 sec he's off by a result of 800's being harder to ride than sbk or is it the competition is that much tougher or both? I think for motogp to remain viable the bikes have to be harder to ride and faster like 500's always were. No sbk champion has ever made it in motogp which says something about what it takes to ride the best bikes in the world.



The position for future back pedaling is CRT must get ahead and stay ahead of sbk. If they can't do that, for me they fail. If they can, great, im not thrilled they might use production engines to advertise themselves as separate entities, but if the engine supplier is also listed and credited then I don't have any problem with it really. Prototype to me only means fastest.
Click to expand...



Not even Freddie Spencer, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz or Nicky Hayden?
 
Tom said:
He was obviously talking about the world championship, but nice of you to try
Click to expand...



Superbike is superbike. The general theory around PS being that WORLD superbike riders are several steps superior to those from the home-made, dustbowl series in the USA.
 
Jumkie said:
I wish u would state ur point for the record so its registered. (This way we can recognize future backpedaling).



Here is my take, looking at those lap times bodes very promising for the CRT!!! Only a few secs off the pace, with non-front runners, on their first shake-down against bikes with years of developed superbike machines on qualifying tires with a world champ aboard.



May i remind the reader, this year we saw wildard entries who during practice times wer up to 4-5 secs off the leaders pace at times. Im sure u Aussies will remember a guy named Damian Cudlin. Yes, off the pace nearly as much as some CRTs are to the lap times above. Now consider Cudlin was on a "protoype" bike like all the other guys on the track with him at the time, u know, that prototype machine that is suddenly the greatest thing to sliced bread and anything different is met with protest and threats of leaving the sport.



Only a fool would think these CRTs with greater freedom to modify than Wsbk bikes will never equal them.



Let me ask u, Pov, and anybody else who cares to answer: Do u think CRTs and their derivatives will ever surpass the current average lap times of superbikes and 800 GP machines? YES or NO? (I say average because some lap records still stand from previous years, so to say all lap records must be crushed doesnt even happen now from year to year. )





At some point a CRT machine will surpass the lap time of an 800 GP macine. Then all the moaners will have egg on their face (assuming they are still watching the sport). Do any of these moaners and debbie downer doomstayers want to put their lame ... predictions to a wager? Put ur money where ur mouth is, who wants to take me up on a bet that at some point, a CRT entry will surpass an 800 GP lap time?



Because when that happens, the CRT will have caught up to the supposed and sudden sanctity of an 800 "prototype" GP bike. And when that happens, it will be a big .... You to all of YOU naysayers.
Click to expand...

Ever is a long time, holler at me when it happens, we can hook up and attend a race.



Can anyone say sucker bet. You want an unlimited time frame for a CRT bike to to surpass { AN } 800 GP lap time. How about i give you 2 years for them to equal the top 800 times, not just {an} 800.
 
povol said:
Ever is a long time, holler at me when it happens, we can hook up and attend a race.



Can anyone say sucker bet. You want an unlimited time frame for a CRT bike to to surpass { AN } 800 GP lap time. How about i give you 2 years for them to equal the top 800 times, not just {an} 800.
Click to expand...

<
ah, its good to see the beginnings of backpedalling. I was worried u would leave the sport. Now im confident u will stick around.



Thanx for the invitation. I'd live to take u up on it.



Ok, 2 years then? So if within two years a CRT breaks the threshold lap time of an 800GP u'll declare ur apprehension about the new formula was misplaced and overblown? How much we gonna put down on the wager?
 
Not any 800

Jumkie said:
<
ah, its good to see the beginnings of backpedalling. I was worried u would leave the sport. Now im confident u will stick around.



Thanx for the invitation. I'd live to take u up on it.



Ok, 2 years then? So if within two years a CRT breaks the threshold lap time of an 800GP u'll declare ur apprehension about the new formula was misplaced and overblown? How much we gonna put down on the wager?
Click to expand...

Not any 800 Moto GP time, but the top 800 Moto GP time, set at an official race weekend from 2011, at same track and configuration, excluding any wet session.

Starting November 2011 to November 2013.



100.00 Dollars to the AMA air fence fund. Or if you really want to spice it up, you lose, you donate 100.00 dollars to the RNC. I lose, i donate 100.00 dollars to the DNC
<
 
Keshav said:
Not even Freddie Spencer, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz or Nicky Hayden?
Click to expand...

Ok Nicky Hayden. Took a while though. I remember even Nicky from his early motogp days saying he was thrown in the deep end at the start, he didnt drown but it was close.

You left out Wayne Gardner and Mick Doohan?

None of these guys seem to have been dedicated SBK riders. They were riding anything and everything under the sun, whatever they could find, including dirtbikes. What I was thinking is a dedicated SBK rider who won the w/c has not been successful in motogp, where as plenty of motogp riders, even old timers, can win in SBK?
 
povol said:
Not any 800



Not any 800 Moto GP time, but the top 800 Moto GP time, set at an official race weekend from 2011, at same track and configuration, excluding any wet session.

Starting November 2011 to November 2013.



100.00 Dollars to the AMA air fence fund. Or if you really want to spice it up, you lose, you donate 100.00 dollars to the RNC. I lose, i donate 100.00 dollars to the DNC
<
Click to expand...

The backpedalling continues. You have already lost this debate Pov. You just refuse to admit defeat.



Hahaha, you are now changing the bar. Typical. You are the one professing the end of the GP world with the introduction of the CRT machine. You have been telling us a few weeks now that the CRT is crap and you want to continue watching "prototype" machines or you will leave the sport. Its only necessary for one CRT bike to go faster than the slowest "prototype 800" for this to disprove your misplaced apprehension. Otherwise, you should be content in 2nd tier satellite Ducatis roaming around in GP for you to be satisfied, after all, they are in your definition "prototypes".



The top times are not even matched sometimes from year to year genius, otherwise you should have left the sport the year they introduced 800s. Admit it Pov, you are cowering down from the assumptions you have been making these least few weeks. I won'd hold it against you, even top riders have been talking like you, threatening to leave the sport and all.



I proposed the bet to match your doomsday scenario, but you have not the balls to accept it, so you change the bet. Here is an interesting take from Kropo regarding people like you poo pooing the new CRTs:



"The doom and gloom is bollocks[Povol]. Human beings are incredibly conservative and resistant to change. Anything new is automatically regarded as being A Bad Thing. The CRT bikes will be fine..."



So again Povol, I will bet you that a CRT will eventually surpass an 800 GP prototype machine in terms of lap time within the next two years. $100 given to whatever. If you want to compare apples with apples, then we will have to wait until one of the same "alien" riders is riding a CRT to compare his lap time from a previous top record year.



Or you can save yourself the money and just concede that all your ........ whining has simply come from your personal misplaced fears and ignorance about the future of GP, and man up like a man and say you were wrong in jumping to premature conclusion.
<
 
Jumkie said:
The backpedalling continues. You have already lost this debate Pov. You just refuse to admit defeat.



Hahaha, you are now changing the bar. Typical. You are the one professing the end of the GP world with the introduction of the CRT machine. You have been telling us a few weeks now that the CRT is crap and you want to continue watching "prototype" machines or you will leave the sport. Its only necessary for one CRT bike to go faster than the slowest "prototype 800" for this to disprove your misplaced apprehension. Otherwise, you should be content in 2nd tier satellite Ducatis roaming around in GP for you to be satisfied, after all, they are in your definition "prototypes".



The top times are not even matched sometimes from year to year genius, otherwise you should have left the sport the year they introduced 800s. Admit it Pov, you are cowering down from the assumptions you have been making these least few weeks. I won'd hold it against you, even top riders have been talking like you, threatening to leave the sport and all.



I proposed the bet to match your doomsday scenario, but you have not the balls to accept it, so you change the bet. Here is an interesting take from Kropo regarding people like you poo pooing the new CRTs:



"The doom and gloom is bollocks[Povol]. Human beings are incredibly conservative and resistant to change. Anything new is automatically regarded as being A Bad Thing. The CRT bikes will be fine..."



So again Povol, I will bet you that a CRT will eventually surpass an 800 GP prototype machine in terms of lap time within the next two years. $100 given to whatever. If you want to compare apples with apples, then we will have to wait until one of the same "alien" riders is riding a CRT to compare his lap time from a previous top record year.



Or you can save yourself the money and just concede that all your ........ whining has simply come from your personal misplaced fears and ignorance about the future of GP, and man up like a man and say you were wrong in jumping to premature conclusion.
<
Click to expand...

Its easy to tell when you lose, you go on a rant trying to deflect the issue at hand. It would be silly to take your bet, all a Moto SB bike would have to do in 2 years is beat the time of Ben Bostrom or Damien Cudlin or a wet session, and you would jump up and claim you were right, You are the one saying not to worry, the CRT will progress past the 800's, put your money where your sizeable mouth is. I have a felling you wont do that though, after you confered with Krop and he told you it wasnt going to happen.
 
povol said:
Its easy to tell when you lose, you go on a rant trying to deflect the issue at hand. It would be silly to take your bet, all a Moto SB bike would have to do in 2 years is beat the time of Ben Bostrom or Damien Cudlin or a wet session, and you would jump up and claim you were right, You are the one saying not to worry, the CRT will progress past the 800's, put your money where your sizeable mouth is. I have a felling you wont do that though, after you confered with Krop and he told you it wasnt going to happen.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you two idiots could include a clause that stipulates final qualifying times only from regular riders. No wildcards. Just a thought.
<
 
Austin said:
Perhaps you two idiots could include a clause that stipulates final qualifying times only from regular riders. No wildcards. Just a thought.
<
Click to expand...

Still a sucker bet, the CRT was 4 seconds off the top prototype in the test. Elias was a regular 3+ seconds off all season. Jum is playing games, using "average" times or "any" 800. My stance all along has been, i will treat GP just as i treated any other motorsport that goes backwards, especially a pinnacle sport that dilutes performance to create artificial racing. Like Krop said, i wont be missed "IF" hundreds more take my place in the stands that like derived racing. But, there is always that other IF .Krop has a financial stake in convincing people that this is the best thing since a pocket on a shirt, and if i were in his place, i probably would too, but i dont. No big deal, maybe GP has run its course for fans like me, i can find other interest.
 
I've seen supercharged stock VFR800s motors pulling 160+ HP... the motor is way understressed in stock form.
 
povol said:
Still a sucker bet, the CRT was 4 seconds off the top prototype in the test. Elias was a regular 3+ seconds off all season. Jum is playing games, using "average" times or "any" 800. My stance all along has been, i will treat GP just as i treated any other motorsport that goes backwards, especially a pinnacle sport that dilutes performance to create artificial racing. Like Krop said, i wont be missed "IF" hundreds more take my place in the stands that like derived racing. But, there is always that other IF .Krop has a financial stake in convincing people that this is the best thing since a pocket on a shirt, and if i were in his place, i probably would too, but i dont. No big deal, maybe GP has run its course for fans like me, i can find other interest.
Click to expand...



I hope MotoGP continues to entertain you; however, I often wonder why you give other fans a piece of your mind. The MSMA had complete control of the rulebook, and they alone have steered the MotoGP ship broadside into a storm swell. The on-track product is worse, the costs have skyrocketed, and the MSMA refuse to lease equipment unless it is a complete bike. If the MSMA are the best people in the biz at writing regulations, why can't they get it right? And why did the MSMA make verbal agreements they never planned to keep (4 bikes for each manufacturer). If unlimited racing is so great, why does it suck so bad?



I'm not opposed to the idea of unlimited prototypes, but I've not seen anything from the MSMA to suggest they have the requisite intelligence to make it happen. I've never heard you explain how you think it can work, either. If the MSMA think unlimited is prototyping is so important why don't they communicate their formula ideas to the fans? Why don't they rally the riders behind the changes necessary to avoid horsepower restrictions?



The MSMA are patently stupid people who occasionally emerge from underneath a rock to address the fans and media. The MSMA have so many options to control the sport and contribute to its commercial and technological success, but they do nothing. They are not being run off, they are committing suicide.
 
povol said:
Still a sucker bet, the CRT was 4 seconds off the top prototype in the test. Elias was a regular 3+ seconds off all season. Jum is playing games, using "average" times or "any" 800. My stance all along has been, i will treat GP just as i treated any other motorsport that goes backwards, especially a pinnacle sport that dilutes performance to create artificial racing. Like Krop said, i wont be missed "IF" hundreds more take my place in the stands that like derived racing. But, there is always that other IF .Krop has a financial stake in convincing people that this is the best thing since a pocket on a shirt, and if i were in his place, i probably would too, but i dont. No big deal, maybe GP has run its course for fans like me, i can find other interest.
Click to expand...



What if you guys split the middle? No wildcards and at each track average the qualifying time of the fastest down to the slowest (non-wildcard) 800cc machine so you get an "average" 800 time for the CRT to beat? Nobody is expecting the CRT's to scortch a Stoner hot lap anytime soon, but if they prove to be mid pack, I'd say the fit the bill at 1/5th the price.



Just a thought.





Example:



Rider 1) 93.505 seconds

Rider 2) 93.702 "

Rider 3) 94.333 "

Rider 4) 95.600



Average lap time: 94.285 time to beat.
 

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