This is why (maybe) the other Ducati's are struggling so so hard...

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#46

Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
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QUOTE :
...
Ducati's electronics allow Casey Stoner to arrive in a corner and simply apply full throttle. As long as he holds the throttle in position, the traction control works out precisely how much power can be applied before the wheel spins, and delivers it.
....
Faced with a bucking-bronco-style ride, the normal rider response is to try and back off and balance the bike out himself, but all that does is confuse the system
...
=================================================
Download the full article 4270:motogp.doc]

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%Note I'm not starting a war here, as Casey <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%DID VERY VERY WELL to mastering the bike.
And last but not least...that wasn't me who wrote the article...
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It looks to me like a bike specially built for Nicky Hayden or Ben Spies who do that anyway but just let the rear wheel spin. I bet he'd be good on that thing without the electronics.

As I recall from the year Nicky won the whole thing, rode the same way without these advanced electronics on the Honda, which would allow him to be insanely fast but also crash a lot. Its ironic how stoner really uses traction control to its fullest because of his sloppy throttle control.
 
even if this is the case which may explain why a lot of experienced top riders can ride the thing, it takes balls to have that trust and open the throttle wide mid corner
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Aug 5 2008, 03:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE :
...
Ducati's electronics allow Casey Stoner to arrive in a corner and simply apply full throttle. As long as he holds the throttle in position, the traction control works out precisely how much power can be applied before the wheel spins, and delivers it.
....
Faced with a bucking-bronco-style ride, the normal rider response is to try and back off and balance the bike out himself, but all that does is confuse the system
...
=================================================
Download the full article 4270:motogp.doc]

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%Note I'm not starting a war here, as Casey <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%DID VERY VERY WELL to mastering the bike.
And last but not least...that wasn't me who wrote the article...
<

Thanks,great link
<
 
I think I read this last year at the time it came out but although it may be obvious to others I don't recall who mnc are. It certainly still seems reflective of the prevailing views at the time.

Despite the electronics apparently allowing the easy application of full throttle at any time this still does not appear to prevent the ducati tossing riders including casey into the scenery, and I guess they must have entirely mislaid the codes between qatar and catalunya this year
<
.

I think they all have very sophisticated electronics available now, and whilst a control ecu might be a good thing in itself, as I have said before honda and yamaha have never called for a control ecu but have called for rpm limits which may be more reflective of their view as to where ducati's advantage lies.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnnyKO @ Aug 5 2008, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its ironic how stoner really uses traction control to its fullest because of his sloppy throttle control.

sorry mate, any one who can win a dirt track championship has not got sloppy throttle control..

IMO it is supreme mental control to overide natural instinct to shut off the throttle and keep it pinned.
that must go against everything he learnt when starting to ride until he climbed onboard this ducati( if it even exists in such a setup)..
 
Are we really talking about this as though it is THAT easy for Stoner to open it up in the corner. Think about how long we have had TC and what it has done. We are in an era where electronics are the wave of the future. In gp you have this thing called racing which means first man to the line wins. Look at Jorge and what has been happening to him when he cracks the throttle open in a corner. The electronics may not be as sophiticated as Ducati but none the less still is very good. Now Casey is NOT sloppy on the throttle in any way. He is more likely the opposite. Even with TC you have to be smooth. He used to be a crasher cause of the tire company not helping him and now Bridgestone listened to him and helped to win the CHampionship. I would say that was more of a factor than really anything else.

All this talk of control ecu's, rev limits are all in attempt to stop Ducati from winning. In my opinion it is a sideways way of the Jap companies cheating through rules THEY mandate. ........ LOL
 
stoner didn't crash because of his tires. He crashed because of the fact that he 990s made 260+ hp and were very difficult to ride if you didn't have good throttle control. This has been brought up in another post, but if you look at the telemetry at laguna seca, rossi vs stoner rossi had so much more touch on the throttle while stoner would just open up the throttle and get insane drives out of corners because he wouldn't get the major wheel spin he would have gotten on the 990 honda.

Do you really think that stoner could ride a 500 two stroke? I seriously doubt that. Even Doohan who smoked the rear wheel all the time had a sense of throttle control. Anyway, that style of riding is the opposite of the 800 style of riding which is all about corner speed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnnyKO @ Aug 5 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you really think that stoner could ride a 500 two stroke? I seriously doubt that. Even Doohan who smoked the rear wheel all the time had a sense of throttle control. Anyway, that style of riding is the opposite of the 800 style of riding which is all about corner speed.

Understatement of the year?

He was THE throttlemaister, nothing less nothing more.
He was really pissed when they took away leaded gas as this took the edge off the engines and thereby his formost advantage: Throotle control.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnnyKO @ Aug 5 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner didn't crash because of his tires. He crashed because of the fact that he 990s made 260+ hp and were very difficult to ride if you didn't have good throttle control.

Well, most of his crashes were lowsides into turns if I remember correctly, and the Honda has had issues with front end feel for some years, so I'm willing to agree that it had somewhat to do with the tires, but not to the degree Stoner himself claims. He went way beyond the limits and that's never the way to ride. Of course the 990 may have been part of it. Getting the bike turned and flicked is a part of the skill and if you are late into the turns that may of course have been a major contributor. After all they do say that lower rotational masses in the engine is one major contributor to the new style.
 
BOY THIS SOUNDS ...... FAMILIAR DOESN'T IT.....ALMOST LIKE I SAID THE SAME GOD DAMNED THING IN 4 TOPICS!!!......
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 5 2008, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Understatement of the year?

He was THE throttlemaister, nothing less nothing more.
He was really pissed when they took away leaded gas as this took the edge off the engines and thereby his formost advantage: Throotle control.
yup, if i remember rightly he was the only rider who could handle the nsr is screamer config.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Aug 5 2008, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>BOY THIS SOUNDS ...... FAMILIAR DOESN'T IT.....ALMOST LIKE I SAID THE SAME GOD DAMNED THING IN 4 TOPICS!!!......
<

dunno, who are you ? welcome to the forum by the way
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 5 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dunno, who are you ? welcome to the forum by the way
<

lol.....looks like you and Jum had a rippin trip man...sick .... for sure.
<
 
I heard the Ducati doesn't even have a twist throttle anymore, just a toggle switch. On and off.
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 5 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I heard the Ducati doesn't even have a twist throttle anymore, just a toggle switch. On and off.
<

careful, there's a few that might take you literally on that
<
<
didn't the cube have an on off throttle ?
one point raised above tho that i also noticed on tv was on the throttle telemetry, caseys was like on off where as rossis was more feather it on like. how accurate these tv telemetry things are i have no idea.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnnyKO @ Aug 5 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner didn't crash because of his tires. He crashed because of the fact that he 990s made 260+ hp and were very difficult to ride if you didn't have good throttle control. This has been brought up in another post, but if you look at the telemetry at laguna seca, rossi vs stoner rossi had so much more touch on the throttle while stoner would just open up the throttle and get insane drives out of corners because he wouldn't get the major wheel spin he would have gotten on the 990 honda.

Do you really think that stoner could ride a 500 two stroke? I seriously doubt that. Even Doohan who smoked the rear wheel all the time had a sense of throttle control. Anyway, that style of riding is the opposite of the 800 style of riding which is all about corner speed.
Go read interviews by Stoner and he cites the tires as the main issue when he was with the honda team over and over again.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Aug 5 2008, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%Note I'm not starting a war here, as Casey <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%DID VERY VERY WELL to mastering the bike.
And last but not least...that wasn't me who wrote the article...
<

So why bother bringing it up, if for nothing else than to get a reaction?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 5 2008, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>careful, there's a few that might take you literally on that
<
<
didn't the cube have an on off throttle ?
one point raised above tho that i also noticed on tv was on the throttle telemetry, caseys was like on off where as rossis was more feather it on like. how accurate these tv telemetry things are i have no idea.
I would judge based on Edwards's and Haga's brief and unhappy stints on the Cube, a toggle switch was likely the case.

And Stoner certainly is quicker and more forceful with the throttle, but as you said, I am quite skeptical of how accurate the telemetry displayed on TV is. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a fair bit of gray area that doesn't make its way on screen.
 

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