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The Valentino Rossi rumors

It is hard to agree that Rossi and Pedrosa with such a small amount of time on the tyres in 2008, were a major factor in the design of the control tyres. Or that they engineered Michelin's demise.

From what I remember of it, both Bridgestone and Michelin were against a control tyre, and Bridgestone's philosophy of 'endurance' over 'feel' which they surprised the world with in 2007,

just happened to work very well with the newly created electro bikes with the technical wizardry compensating for the flaws in the rubber, lets face it, without serious traction control, this rubber would be absolutely unrideable.

I believe Michelin actually created the control tyre situation by not becoming competitive across the entire 2007-08 seasons due to their corporate situation at the time, I believe they had the expertise and the passion to

start hammering Bridgestone once again, but were poorly managed and once their two flagship riders jumped ship they lost it. It would have been great to see them at least apply for the Sole Tyre supplier tender as it potentially

would have made for an interesting decision for Dorna, personally I think that they would have supplied a tyre which would have created better racing than bridgestones current woeful and unchanged efforts, they just needed time to adapt to the electronics and

supply regulations.

I believe it was Talpa who pointed out the criticism from a lot of the teams on this years supply being much different to last, I thought the control rubber has suppose to be unchanged since 2009? Anyone got any clarification on this? Whilst the Bridgestone

conspiracy theory is as ridiculous as many of the Rossi conspiracy's out there, I have also read where several major teams have openly criticized Bridgestone heavily this season, which is unusual. I think its more a case of Bridgestone

Dropping the ball in the manufacture to keep costs down. Especially in relation to what they would spend if they had competition.



I'm quite certain that the Control rubber costs the teams a lot more money. After reading about Yamaha's trials with having to revert back to the 2010 chassis in the factory team and of course Ducati having to reinvent everything

there is a lot of proof to back up this theory. Yamaha's fortune reversal after this was nothing short of extraordinary, at Le mans Lorenzo was beaten well by a factory Ducati, this has been impossible to even conceive since the chassis revision. Spies was

nowhere and then a race winner at Assen.

I agree with all of your post and obviously didn't make myself clear.



I meant that rossi and pedrosa engineered the control tyre in the sense of being a major cause of it coming into existence, particularly pedrosa who made michelin's position untenable by insisting on switching to bridgestone midseason, rather than being at all responsible for any deficiency in actual physical tyres. I think hrc were prepared to stick with michelin and not ditch them after a just a single year of bridgestone supremacy, and ducati were prepared to switch to michelin, so my point was that the demise of a long term player and rusted-on natural supporter of motogp may have been significantly influenced by the short term self-interest of a couple of riders, one of whom now ironically has a problem with tyres not suiting his current bike.



In the end it was dorna who made the decison for the control tyre though for good or ill.
 
That's a pretty narrow view of matters. Any title (or points) are a mixture of rider, team, bike and fortune. Some years, you have more of one thing, and less of another. To attribute Jorge's win to the rider solely is misguided and unrealistic.



See this thread: http://www.powerslid...l=&fromsearch=1





Please do not attribute statements to me that I have not said. I never stated that I want to discount Jorge's achievement. I merely stated that Jorge's achievement in beating Rossi in 2010 cannot realistically be attributed to 'Lorenzo's superiority' over Rossi. He might have beaten him. He might not have beaten him. The point is, we will never know.



Unsurprisingly, you have failed to address my points - Valentino's broken leg and injured shoulder make any comparison between the speed of the two a little humorous. It's like saying Stoner was superior to Dani this year. Dani has been out injured for many races - the mere fact of Stoner's ascendancy in the points rankings cannot be solely attributed to Casey's superior talent as Dani has not been healthy to make any comparison between the two. We will never know, we can only speculate. Casey might still be in front if Dani were healthy. He might not be. The point is, it's all speculation! You too, are speculating.





Yes, then Rossi beat him senseless for the next few seasons.





No. As I stated, championships are won because of a multitude of factors. The weighting of each factor can only be considered properly against the context of many seasons. For example, when Rossi jumped on the hitherto pathetic M1 and won the title, then we can discount that the RCV was the major factor in his success. You seem to have a short memory.









I didn't suggest that this had no bearing, as you claim. You are imagining things. Anyway, experience is one asset, but so is youth, desire and hunger. You are the one making excuses for Jorge. Ultimately, in 2008 and 2009, he was clearly not up to the task of beating Valentino. Would he have been in 2010 if VR didn't get injured? Well, we will never know! Anyone who suggests otherwise, is merely speculating!





Not necessarily. You assume that each injury is exactly the same, and therefore comparable. Lorenzo crashed whilst overriding the bike, and trying to produce results that his skillset was not capable of producing (at the time) and by trying to match Rossi. Rossi crashed after his tyres cooled in Free Practice, as a consequence of trying to find clear track. It was a bit of a freak incident, whereas Jorge's ambition outweighed his talent, as Casey would say.







I understand that. I never stated otherwise. Again, you are imagining things. Try to find a quote where I stated this. Here's a hint: you won't.







Evidence, please.





It is a fact that Valentino was asked by Yamaha to almost half his salary, due to 'financial constraints'. It is also a fact that Lorenzo's salary was increased by almost the same amount that Rossi's salary was reduced. Do you feel this is insignificant?



Jorge is an excellent rider with astonishing talent. But we must be honest in our statements and reasoning.



Evidence please:http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/mcn/2007/may/may-21---27/may2407yamahanoregretsaboutmissingstoner/
 
I've always said it was a big mistake for rossi to ride for Ducati. One ofthe issues which I feel is most prevalent at present in this particular debate is the bridgestones.



Ducati have been complaining all season long about the rubber, tech 3 and the factory yamahas have both also complained heavily. And now vito has come out and said that this years rubber is very different to last years, adding serious weight to the whole Rossi/stoner debate. Interesting to note that many aren't referencing this rather valid issue.



Even stoner has had problems with thecurrent bridestone rubber, however Honda seems to be having the least amount of issue. Not surprisingly they also have the highest rubber order on their prod machines....



Talpa i have cut you some slack because i feel for your fragile state, but let the tyre argument go, let the poor frame design go and cut the umbilical chord mate. Vale once was #1 but he aint been there since 2010 when he got spanked by casey on a shut box and lorenzo on the same bike.

Deal with it sunshine...move on.
 

This is not evidence that rossi specifically vetoed stoner though.



As I recall there was some remark by jb in 2007 that he would have liked to work with stoner but valentino wasn't keen, I can't even recall whether the remark was pre-season or during the season, and can't recall the source.



It was far from obvious to most that stoner was championship material prior to the 2007 season, he was even ducati's 4th choice and only signed by them to a 1 year contract, so rossi vetoing him because he was threatened is stretching things in any case.
 
You want rumors? I'll start me some right here:



1. Casey Stoner refuses to go to Motegi, no matter what the FIM report says. This raises Honda's ire, and they sack him at the end of the season for gross insubordination.



2. With a sudden vacancy to fill, there is a rapprochement between Honda and Valentino Rossi. HRC immediately offer Rossi Stoner's now vacant seat, and Rossi gladly accepts, especially having seen the terrifying pace the Honda 1000 sets at the Brno test.



3. With a return to Ducati his last resort (Suzuki, after all, is completely unthinkable), Stoner makes some inquiries at Yamaha. Sensing an opportunity, Lin Jarvis snaps Stoner up at a bargain price. This provides two benefits - it allows Yamaha to retain the #1 plate (Stoner having wrapped up the title at Phillip Island), and restores the two-alien status which Yamaha previously had. Lorenzo is happy enough to accept the situation, as it gives him the chance to prove that he lost to Stoner because of the Honda, not because of his talent. Having two of the four aliens also improves Yamaha's bargaining power, and they finally secure a title sponsor, saving them from having to pull the plug on MotoGP.



4. Ben Spies is offered "the Dovizioso option."



5. With an unfilled (and much-feared) vacancy at Ducati, Bologna goes shopping for the Next Big Thing, and lines up Mr Big Hair himself to take Rossi's place. Simoncelli is happy to take the Marlboro Money, having burned his bridges with HRC by destroying a lot of expensive factory equipment and still not setting foot on the podium. Simoncelli's 2012 looks a little bit like the first half of 2010 for Stoner, looking competitive but crashing out. The bike continues to suck. Nicky Hayden finishes as top Marlboro Ducati rider for the 2nd year running.



I am making all this up, but it is still within the realms of the possible. Will it happen? Probably not. Should it happen? .... yeah!



Now thats more like it, thank .... Brno is this weekend. . . . .
 
You want rumors? I'll start me some right here:



1. Casey Stoner refuses to go to Motegi, no matter what the FIM report says. This raises Honda's ire, and they sack him at the end of the season for gross insubordination.



2. With a sudden vacancy to fill, there is a rapprochement between Honda and Valentino Rossi. HRC immediately offer Rossi Stoner's now vacant seat, and Rossi gladly accepts, especially having seen the terrifying pace the Honda 1000 sets at the Brno test.



3. With a return to Ducati his last resort (Suzuki, after all, is completely unthinkable), Stoner makes some inquiries at Yamaha. Sensing an opportunity, Lin Jarvis snaps Stoner up at a bargain price. This provides two benefits - it allows Yamaha to retain the #1 plate (Stoner having wrapped up the title at Phillip Island), and restores the two-alien status which Yamaha previously had. Lorenzo is happy enough to accept the situation, as it gives him the chance to prove that he lost to Stoner because of the Honda, not because of his talent. Having two of the four aliens also improves Yamaha's bargaining power, and they finally secure a title sponsor, saving them from having to pull the plug on MotoGP.



4. Ben Spies is offered "the Dovizioso option."



5. With an unfilled (and much-feared) vacancy at Ducati, Bologna goes shopping for the Next Big Thing, and lines up Mr Big Hair himself to take Rossi's place. Simoncelli is happy to take the Marlboro Money, having burned his bridges with HRC by destroying a lot of expensive factory equipment and still not setting foot on the podium. Simoncelli's 2012 looks a little bit like the first half of 2010 for Stoner, looking competitive but crashing out. The bike continues to suck. Nicky Hayden finishes as top Marlboro Ducati rider for the 2nd year running.



I am making all this up, but it is still within the realms of the possible. Will it happen? Probably not. Should it happen? .... yeah!



WOW. This would be the best scenario for a fascinating 2012 season!

But point 1 sounds weak.... Casey Stoner and Honda know their interest better don't they...
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Bit different...Max never performed on the factory RC211V and blamed the equipment and the personnel for his shortcomings



Completely different. However, he defied HRC, and HRC punished him. I don't get the vibe that Honda have come over all forgiving in the meantime.
 
No comparison to Biaggi - none. Biaggi accused HRC of sabotaging his career and did it to the press.



Rumors has it that Rossi has had a long talk with some HRC boys.
 
This is not evidence that rossi specifically vetoed stoner though.



As I recall there was some remark by jb in 2007 that he would have liked to work with stoner but valentino wasn't keen, I can't even recall whether the remark was pre-season or during the season, and can't recall the source.



It was far from obvious to most that stoner was championship material prior to the 2007 season, he was even ducati's 4th choice and only signed by them to a 1 year contract, so rossi vetoing him because he was threatened is stretching things in any case.



Thanks for saving me the trouble. Spot on.
 
lorenzo was on different(some might say inferior) rubber than rossi in his rookie season.



concerning lorenzos rookie crahes and rossis mugello crash....i must admit i didn't see it that way before...

lorenzo crashed while being young and hungry, not accepting to play second fiddle,even on inferior machinery challenging the very best right from the start.

rossis crash looks mighty stupid compared to that
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let it go
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Yes, the crashes occurred in very different contexts. Lorenzo's crashes were a result of his burning and intense ambition - he truly wanted to beat the best, and beat him on the same bike. Rossi crashed as a result of messing about on track and not paying the attention that was due.
 
anyone who doesn't like Rossi is someone who doesn't like success. every year, isn't the goal to win the WC? or is the goal to be liked by other riders the most or be the most determined rider, etc? I'd say it's to win the WC. well, he's done that 7 times in the top class while failing 4 times. whatever it took to get there, he did it. he succeeded! plain and simple. guess it must suck for fans of the other riders who fail more often than succeed. sure, Rossi will fail to win this year, but people hating on him for being a winner for so long is a bit ridiculous, IMO.



Despite being a Stoner supporter, I for one can honestly say that I don't hate Rossi at all & certainly not for his successes. This I believe would apply to most so-called "boners" on this site.



The issue I've had with Vale ever since 2004 is his crappy treatment of his fellow competitors on track at various times, whilst still trying to maintain his squeaky clean image with the press & public. Rossi is a great combination of great talent plus strong marketing, which has resulted in the juggernaut that we've witnessed over the last decade.



The problem with that is I believe that Rossi & his fans started to believe his own hype at some stage & this is what annoys me the most...



Rossi no doubt is one of the greatest racers in the history of world motorcycle championship racing and that will stand the test of time... But like all good things, his reign is coming to an end and his fans will need to accept that there are younger, hungrier & regularly faster riders at the pointy end of the grid...
 

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