In 2010 Lorenzo was superior to Rossi. The WC says it is so. If you really want to discount this based on caveats then lets start dissecting Rossi's WC's on the same basis. How about year 1 of the 990's when most of the field were still on 500's and when a worthy competitor finally got a Honda 990 he beat Rossi. So are you happy to discount his WC as only one because he was the only one with a good bike? What about SNS?
The previous 2 seasons Lorenzo was a rookie and in his second year. Rossi had been in the top class for many years. I can not see how anyone with a rational mind can suggest that this had no bearing. When Lorenzo had sufficient experience he beat Rossi. In Lorenzo's rookie season he fell and injured him self several times. Based on your rational Rossi only beat Lorenzo because Lorenzo was injured.
How many WC's does a rider need to win before they are better then Rossi today? I would suggest that you confuse career stats for performance level now. Sure Rossi has 150 WC's but that does not mean that a rider can not surpass his ability in a current season.
Rossi prevented Stoner coming to Yamaha in 2007. Edwards was Rossi's personal tester for how many seasons? Rossi complained that Lorenzo should not get the bike that he developed and that Lorenzo should develop his own bike. Rossi forgets that he is an employee and he does not own Yamaha so as soon as Lorenzo challenged he offered an ultimatum and Yamaha reminded him that he was an employee and if he did not like it he could seek employment elsewhere. Suggesting it was just money is naive.
Joined Feb 2007
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Hayden? If Yamaha built a more reliable bike that year Hayden wouldnt have been champ.
If you're going on experience, Casey won his first WC on his 2nd year in the big class, sure Jorge took the fight to Vale in his 2nd year but he didnt win. 2010 was different, it was looking like another great battle between the 2 but Rossi nailed himself and we didnt get to see the outcome.
Quit trying to put Rossi down, aye he's not the be all and end all, he's achieved some amount though, more than most ever will!
While the quotes do sound like something Marco Melandri would say, I'm not so sure about this rumor. But supposing Rossi did want to run his own team, he'd be smart to leave MotoGP behind. The Flamminis would probably give him a chunk of the action if he rode in WSBK, and his old Yamaha M1 (I meant R1) no longer has a factory team to support it. Rossi could line up 4-5 million in sponsorship and a SBK costs a fraction of MotoGP kit. Add in some kick backs from the Flamminis, bonuses from his personal sponsors who expect him to win, and Yamaha performance bonuses; Rossi would have a lucrative season riding a bike he likes.
I'm seeing less and less reasons for Rossi to continue swimming upstream.
The fuel-limited regulations are an obscure nightmare. I appreciate that Honda want to work on partial-throttle fuel efficiency, but most of the advancements are the result of mechanical innovations that will never be production relevant. When will cars or bikes have pneumatic valves, complicated zero-shift (or whatever they call it) gearboxes, and advanced back-torque clutches to help step the engines down from 18,000rpm in the most fuel efficient way possible? In light of CAFE 2025, do Honda really have the time or the money to continue chasing this rabbit?
Honda have a religious devotion to two things: 1. Winning 2. Preventing horsepower regulations (b/c that's how SBK works). Honda's religion is wrecking the sport. Even if MotoGP had 24L and 81mm bore at 1000cc, upstarts are not going to touch Honda. If they legalize variable intake and exhaust it would only move the "elite" engine builders farther up the road from the upstarts.
Commodore Ezpeleta better be polishing his cannons b/c if all of the swirling rumors are true, his sport is in dire straights. Rossi cannot remain uncompetitive. Honda cannot have a 1 second advantage over the entire field. Suzuki cannot drop out or finish dead-last on their 800. WSBK cannot continue to inherit GP talent; especially GP winning talent. Kids can't get stuck in Moto2.
I'm seeing less and less reasons for Rossi to continue swimming upstream.
The fuel-limited regulations are an obscure nightmare. I appreciate that Honda want to work on partial-throttle fuel efficiency, but most of the advancements are the result of mechanical innovations that will never be production relevant. When will cars or bikes have pneumatic valves, complicated zero-shift (or whatever they call it) gearboxes, and advanced back-torque clutches to help step the engines down from 18,000rpm in the most fuel efficient way possible? In light of CAFE 2025, do Honda really have the time or the money to continue chasing this rabbit?
Honda have a religious devotion to two things: 1. Winning 2. Preventing horsepower regulations (b/c that's how SBK works). Honda's religion is wrecking the sport. Even if MotoGP had 24L and 81mm bore at 1000cc, upstarts are not going to touch Honda. If they legalize variable intake and exhaust it would only move the "elite" engine builders farther up the road from the upstarts.
Commodore Ezpeleta better be polishing his cannons b/c if all of the swirling rumors are true, his sport is in dire straights. Rossi cannot remain uncompetitive. Honda cannot have a 1 second advantage over the entire field. Suzuki cannot drop out or finish dead-last on their 800. WSBK cannot continue to inherit GP talent; especially GP winning talent. Kids can't get stuck in Moto2.
Sure, no doubt rossi was still pretty close to his peak at the start of 2010 prior to his shoulder injury, and won a race against jorge late in the year with shoulder, post broken leg and all. Jorge is pretty damn good though, and what surprised me in 2009 was that even though rossi won the championship handily and deservedly he had no answer for jorge at a few tracks, with jorge and team in only his second year seemingly even bettering him in setting up the bike at those tracks, something I thought I would never see.
What this year proves is that a bike that doesn't suit valentino's riding style exists (not that this is a point in favour of the bike concerned), and that much previous criticism of stoner's riding often by rossi fans would perhaps better have been directed at the bike, since stoner would now appear to have had little choice about how he rode the thing.
Exactly. I intepreted some of kropotkin's sigh as reflecting all this. Rossi remaining uncompetitive apart from meaning ducati are no good under the current rules makes most of carmelo's marketing of the sport for a decade look silly, and if he is parachuted into a factory honda or whatever with any suspicion of undue influence the sport looks like wwe wrestling.
Can`t see Ducati pulling out of MotoGP.Where else would they be able to advertise their bikes on track (please dont say WSBK !!! Its hardly the Ducati championship that it was,Is it ? ).They are a small firm and actually need those bikes on show out there.Don`t think they will go until they have at least one more title under the factory belt and even then they`ll be back with a full effort in WSBK to keep ,as I said,the bikes in the public eye.
I think Krop's sigh was a journalist's lament. The summer break has only just started, and the Italian press has already turned the rumor machine up to feverish levels. I'm sure he is as tired of addressing Rossi-gossip, as he is of clearing his site of Stoner vs. Rossi combatants.
In a broader sense, though, I think you are correct. If Rossi does pull the ripcord and land successfully on a competitive bike somewhere else, it will intensify cat calls from Rossi-haters, and from concerned fans who've seen strange goings on since 2008 when he started the season on a Bridgestone-shod M1. Krop will surely be sighing heavily if discontentment proliferates.
Joined Feb 2007
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My conversation has been about how the others (Stoner Lorenzo Pedrosa) are better and has not been about putting Rossi down. Rossi can not be considered the best for ever. Rossi has also been around along time and has been politically active through out that time. The political activity has landed him where he is today. When others suggest that Rossi is still the best and indicate that no other rider will ever be able to be considered better I will argue against it. Sure perhaps no one will ever beat Rossi's stats but that does not mean that another rider on the track at the same time can not be a better rider. It is my view that there are at least 2 riders who are better than Rossi right now regardless of what bikes any of them are on. Stick the 4 of them on stock anything and at best I think Rossi would come third in the majority of races.
Good points.
However i do believe that while Rossi may not have the outright speed of Casey, he can match Jorge and Dani and i think he's mentally stronger than the lot of them. Racing isnt a time trial and IMO noone on the grid has his racecraft, though Jorge and especially Casey aren't far off. The Honda clearly gives Casey the confidence to hold back and attack when he feels comfortable, similar to Rossi when he was on the Honda...
Joined Jul 2011
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Dont Know
Honda actually has failed to win the championship or constructors title for the whole 800 period. I doubt the Honda itself has a second advantage over the field. The riders might have something to do with it. Afterall, the Ducati now has a seamless shift gearbox just like the Honda.
My problem all along has been the application of different standards to riders other than rossi, particularly by a certain element among fandom, rather than doubts about rossi's quality as a rider.
I think stoner and lorenzo are too good for rossi to dominate as he did the likes of biaggi and gibernau, and dani on his day can smoke all 3 of them. Unless his injuries have permanently affected him though, particularly in his mental approach, I lack your complete confidence about other riders winning the championship with rossi on a factory honda or yamaha as well. As has been said he still looked to have most of what he had previously as recently as in the late season win in 2010. However, as you and others have also said rossi is where he is through his own choices and has to bear the consequences of that.
I also think as someone also said that there is a problem in the bike vs alien ratio, with the msma and dorna having painted themselves into a corner with the excessive cost of producing a bike with a winning chance under the current regulations. If you want to argue that nobody was worrying about the future of the sport and the escalating basic problems in the sport as long as rossi was winning and the ratings were good I might agree with you.
Yes that would be right; VR can only ride the easyrider (please refer to the attached picture of VR's
Gresini Honda)
…but when VR is called for to do the real business then he can’t! 9 times world champ? He should be able to ride anything and everything! Or can he?
It just proves that the teams that VR raced with to win the W/C’s were all top units just like throughout Lorenzo’s career so far, and that is why they have achieved what they did. Surely, VR and JB should be able to develop and make the Ducati into a W/C bike just like Stoner did in 2007!
This absolutely proves what a genius Stoner’s riding and setup’s were and are, he did that with the Ducati and now he’s doing it and being consistent and leading the W/C with HRC!
Gresini Honda)
It just proves that the teams that VR raced with to win the W/C’s were all top units just like throughout Lorenzo’s career so far, and that is why they have achieved what they did. Surely, VR and JB should be able to develop and make the Ducati into a W/C bike just like Stoner did in 2007!
This absolutely proves what a genius Stoner’s riding and setup’s were and are, he did that with the Ducati and now he’s doing it and being consistent and leading the W/C with HRC!
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Joined Jul 2011
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I'll make a wild, crazy prediction that Rossi will get his alloy delta frame, but not from Ducati. He'll sign up with Suzuki. They have a secret test of the GSXR superbike vs the Motogp bike. Rossi will say the superbike is better and Suzuki will finally do what many have wanted and base the motogp bike on the superbike. Rossi brings Fiat sponsorship, Suzuki make a half decent bike with an inline four and Rossi wins Misano. Suzuki are saved.
Ducati meanwhile look for another alien. None are interested. So they take the next best thing, forming an American dream team. Thats right they sign up Spies, whos had enough of being in Lorenzo's land. Spies and Hayden use their superbike experience to get Ducati back on track. The Italians feed Spies plenty of spaghetti bolognaise, he gains weight, gets his concentration back and wins Leguna. Hayden wins Indy. Ducati are saved.
Ducati meanwhile look for another alien. None are interested. So they take the next best thing, forming an American dream team. Thats right they sign up Spies, whos had enough of being in Lorenzo's land. Spies and Hayden use their superbike experience to get Ducati back on track. The Italians feed Spies plenty of spaghetti bolognaise, he gains weight, gets his concentration back and wins Leguna. Hayden wins Indy. Ducati are saved.
