The Untouchables

Keshav · Dec 12, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Irony is you calling us punters in spite of exhibiting on numerous occasions how little you actually know about motor racing at large.

Anyway, this is another Kesh tactic, say something equally moronic to the position in the debate he runs away from, he gets called on it, and then he turns around and tries to attack every one as being "nobodies" or some variation thereof of this.

But let's not lose sight of what really matters here, Kesh was once again proven wrong when it came to the nature of the Ricardo Tormo Circuit. Instead of being a man and just admitting he got it wrong, Kesh still is trying to engage in subterfuge.

Guys, I was thinking of borrowing a page out of Kesh's playbook.

I've got a fridge FILLED with beer, and plenty of hard liquor to chase it down with.

I figure I can get rip-roaring ....-faced drunk, go out driving, and see if I get pulled over for the inevitable DWI. Now once I wind up in court, I'm going to stand up in front of the court in front of the judge and present my defense. I think the judge should be willing to cut me a break. I'm going to tell him that I was merely "advancing an idea" that I could successfully drive while intoxicated, and not cause any accidents, serious injuries, and/or even death. That I stand here before the court is EVIDENCE that my hypothesis was successfully advanced from idea to reality. THEREFORE, it is nothing more than a scientific experiment that has been successfully proven.

Surely this has to work, right?

After all, Kesh thinks saying "advancing an idea" is a proper defense to use regardless of whatever the overwhelming evidence may indicate to the contrary.

So I see no reason why this can't be successful.

Have you noticed that the more I withdraw from the conversation - the more overwrought your replies become? As my interest wains - your attempts to draw me back in become increasingly melodramatic and frenzied.

JPSLotus · Dec 12, 2015

You're like a ........ fortune cookie, each bit of "wisdom" that comes out of the inside is even stupider than the last.

I'm literally laughing as a type this.

Keshav · Dec 12, 2015

JPSLotus said:
You're like a ........ fortune cookie, each bit of "wisdom" that comes out of the inside is even stupider than the last.

I'm literally laughing as a type this.

I see your desperate pretense of obtuseness and awkwardly fallacious non sequitur response as a diversion from the fact that you have no congruent rejoinder, while needing to keep your head up in front of the peanut gallery, whilst trying to maintain the hollow and wholly unconvincing pretense of victorious laughter at a joke that fails to be the least bit funny

and I raise you genuine chortling, several guffaws, a generous helping of snickering, a pinch of snorting, folded into a fluffy layer of cackling sprinkled with a snowy dusting of cachinnation, a heaping helping of howling merriment all of which is covered in a thick buttery frosting of eye-watering hillarity as a result of the sight of you floundering in your clumsily bumptious attempts at repartee.

BTW - have you noticed how often you use the word "literal"? Did you know that being overly literal and uncontrollable misdirected hostility is considered to be one of the top ten signs of adult autism?

Keshav · Dec 12, 2015

michaelm said:
My equanimity can fray at 2 am in the morning.

Just to be clear, this is an issue in regard to which I have strong convictions, independent of your particular stance, and involves the entire integrity of the sport imo. The problem is not you or any other individual poster speculating on a motogp forum, that happens all the time obviously and is a large part of the nature of forums/fora , and hence why I haven't blamed Rossi previously for the diminishment of championship wins by his rivals.

Birdman said something perceptive as is his wont in a post a couple of years ago, that Rossi actually uses his fan base as a weapon against his rivals, a conclusion he had drawn back when he was an (obviously rare) Max Biaggi fan, which in all honesty hadn't occurred to me; I had purely blamed the crazy element among his fans for the persecution of Stoner for instance.

The problem is that it is Rossi who has made what is at best speculation but which he has made out to be fact, very publicly including in an official press conference in the case of the allegations concerning the PI race, and deliberately mobilised his fan base against MM imo, and in the full knowledge that whatever happened in the last 2 races it was unlikely Jorge would be credited with having fairly won the championship, as (again imo) he actually did.

I consider his behaviour to be unethical and to have brought the sport into disrepute. In fact, the word "chickenshit" which has been applied by others is apposite in my view.

Again, Rossi could have subverted any potential conspiracy by being fast enough to beat Lorenzo in particular, or MM for that matter, in the last 3 races. I agree with Povol that not being fast enough to do this, which he seems to have realised in advance, was his real problem. No shame in him not being as fast at age 36 as riders as good as MM (whom he still beat in the championship of course) and JL, in their prime and both with their acts together late season, remarkable that he got so close and it could very legitimately have been speculated imo that things would have been different against a 25 year old Rossi even in terms of raw pace, before Rossi poisoned the well.

Thank you for your considered (and as usual eloquent) response. I have no argument with what you've said. Maybe the only significant place we diverge is that I just don't feel as passionately concerned as regards to the consequences of the whole fiasco. Seems like I am a bit more detached on this subject - because there's really nothing any of us can do to alter the course of history.

Come next year - there will be good racing. There will be much excitement about how the bikes and the riders adapt to the new rubber and the new electronics and new riders and new marques which I anticipate will overshadow this tempest in a teapot faster than we think. The Rossi nutcases will return like the swallows to Capistrono - but who really cares? Marquez is not going to be assassinated. Rossi, knowing that his time has passed, will make the best of it and the world will roll on. Every year at end of season we fans roll out our projections about the nature of the coming season and they are pretty much always miles from the mark. Que sera sera mon frere.

Keshav · Dec 12, 2015

MdubSTYLIE said:
Trying to make this worse are you? He just stated his opinion. Is this what we missed out on when we were gone? Is this is the harmonic forum you always talk about? Now excuse me I have some popcorn to finish eating.

I hope you remembered to ask for extra butter for the hole in the bottom of bucket.

JPSLotus · Dec 12, 2015

Keshav said:
I see your desperate pretense of obtuseness and awkwardly fallacious non sequitur response as a diversion from the fact that you have no congruent rejoinder, while needing to keep your head up in front of the peanut gallery, whilst trying to maintain the hollow and wholly unconvincing pretense of victorious laughter at a joke that fails to be the least bit funny

and I raise you genuine chortling, several guffaws, a generous helping of snickering, a pinch of snorting, folded into a fluffy layer of cackling sprinkled with a snowy dusting of cachinnation, a heaping helping of howling merriment all of which is covered in a thick buttery frosting of eye-watering hillarity as a result of the sight of you floundering in your clumsily bumptious attempts at repartee.

BTW - have you noticed how often you use the word "literal"? Did you know that being overly literal and uncontrollable misdirected hostility is considered to be one of the top ten signs of adult autism?

Did you know that studies have been done, where people who insist on using too many big words in an effort to try and make one sound smarter than they actually are, wind up looking stupid?

This is from a journal called Applied Cognitive Psychology and was written by a professor at Princeton. It's an interesting read.

http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/semantics/ConsequencesErudite.pdf

In your need to try and appear as if you have superior intelligence to me, or even others --which you don't-- you manage to completely .... that up as well.

Congratulations Kesh...you really have a way of making yourself look subsequently dumber with each post you make. I'm kind of impressed actually. But on the bright side, it makes it a cakewalk to point out everything that is wrong with you.

michaelm · Dec 12, 2015

Keshav said:
Thank you for your considered (and as usual eloquent) response. I have no argument with what you've said. Maybe the only significant place we diverge is that I just don't feel as passionately concerned as regards to the consequences of the whole fiasco. Seems like I am a bit more detached on this subject - because there's really nothing any of us can do to alter the course of history.

Come next year - there will be good racing. There will be much excitement about how the bikes and the riders adapt to the new rubber and the new electronics and new riders and new marques which I anticipate will overshadow this tempest in a teapot faster than we think. The Rossi nutcases will return like the swallows to Capistrono - but who really cares? Marquez is not going to be assassinated. Rossi, knowing that his time has passed, will make the best of it and the world will roll on. Every year at end of season we fans roll out our projections about the nature of the coming season and they are pretty much always miles from the mark. Que sera sera mon frere.

I ended up supporting Lorenzo quite strongly for the 2015 title and having quite a degree of emotional investment in him, although I would have had no problem acknowledging a Rossi win had that occurred and which he looked likely to achieve by entirely fair means for much of the season. It was the PI press conference and events surrounding that which annoyed me, in particular that VR seemed to think that nobody should be allowed to race him except Jorge while being happy to keep the lead he had obtained when everyone was racing Jorge.

I am also giving him retrospective blame for the persecution of Casey Stoner by that element of his fandom which I think strongly contributed to his disillusionment with the sport; I was very happy for Casey to do what was best for him but still miss watching him ride, which I suspect I could have done for longer in the absence of all that nonsense.

Gaz · Dec 12, 2015

michaelm said:
I am also giving him retrospective blame for the persecution of Casey Stoner by that element of his fandom which I think strongly contributed to his disillusionment with the sport; I was very happy for Casey to do what was best for him but still miss watching him ride, which I suspect I could have done for longer in the absence of all that nonsense.

Mike, this is actually a very interesting point you raise.

Just how much of CS's disillusionment was the persecution that he felt he received from the fandom as like you, I do suspect that it was not insignificant given that his young family were with him and had been said to have been present when the abuse occurred on some rare occasions.

I do wonder (not aimed at you with this) but just how much of the famed 'Rossi mindgames' is the environment that is created or generated if/when VR decides to label you as his villain rather than any direct comment from VR himself?

The last few races and the ensuing circus environments away from the racing have (to say the least) been rather interesting

birdman · Dec 12, 2015

michaelm said:
My equanimity can fray at 2 am in the morning.

Just to be clear, this is an issue in regard to which I have strong convictions, independent of your particular stance, and involves the entire integrity of the sport imo. The problem is not you or any other individual poster speculating on a motogp forum, that happens all the time obviously and is a large part of the nature of forums/fora , and hence why I haven't blamed Rossi previously for the diminishment of championship wins by his rivals.

Birdman said something perceptive as is his wont in a post a couple of years ago, that Rossi actually uses his fan base as a weapon against his rivals, a conclusion he had drawn back when he was an (obviously rare) Max Biaggi fan, which in all honesty hadn't occurred to me; I had purely blamed the crazy element among his fans for the persecution of Stoner for instance.

The problem is that it is Rossi who has made what is at best speculation but which he has made out to be fact, very publicly including in an official press conference in the case of the allegations concerning the PI race, and deliberately mobilised his fan base against MM imo, and in the full knowledge that whatever happened in the last 2 races it was unlikely Jorge would be credited with having fairly won the championship, as (again imo) he actually did.

I consider his behaviour to be unethical and to have brought the sport into disrepute. In fact, the word "chickenshit" which has been applied by others is apposite in my view.

Again, Rossi could have subverted any potential conspiracy by being fast enough to beat Lorenzo in particular, or MM for that matter, in the last 3 races. I agree with Povol that not being fast enough to do this, which he seems to have realised in advance, was his real problem. No shame in him not being as fast at age 36 as riders as good as MM (whom he still beat in the championship of course) and JL, in their prime and both with their acts together late season, remarkable that he got so close and it could very legitimately have been speculated imo that things would have been different against a 25 year old Rossi even in terms of raw pace, before Rossi poisoned the well.

Well I put to you Rossi's fans are actually more powerful than he is. Leaders are only powerful in that they control subjects. This is going to extremes, but Hitler was not a power unto himself now was he? Not an impressive physical specimen. Not an Olympian athlete. Just a dude with a moustache. Yet he did motivate, in ways the world has basically never seen. Descent people did unthinkable things. In the name of a cause. To be champions of the world I assume? Humans remain primitive at their core. I certainly am.

Ok so Rossi is no Hitler, Oxley thinks he is a good decent human, but then curiously goes on to say many racers are not descent humans? I found that particularly odd. Being a good human and a good sportsman tends to be a bit of a contradiction philosophically speaking. For example in sport its acceptable, even desirable to take advantage of any weakness of the opponent, even when it doesn't exist - hi Casey. Fans dont exactly feel sorry for the opposition. Yet to be a good descent human, we need to protect the weak.

In my initial assessment of Oxley I wasnt so much surprised he needed to say Rossi was a decent human, as if that was under debate (as in what does he know of Rossi we dont?) but why he mentions sportsman often arent?

Ok so Rossi conducts his fans like the maestro he is. Yes, that's his greatest power, over Dorna and the opposition apparently. It is clear post PI Rossi did not want Iannone to be the subject of the fanbase hate. Whats interesting is how quickly Rossi himself redirected them to away from Iannone to Marquez. So I conclude he could now just as easily put them to ease with Marquez, but as far as I know he has let them persist, even though they threaten.

birdman · Dec 13, 2015

Keshav said:
I see your desperate pretense of obtuseness and awkwardly fallacious non sequitur response as a diversion from the fact that you have no congruent rejoinder, while needing to keep your head up in front of the peanut gallery, whilst trying to maintain the hollow and wholly unconvincing pretense of victorious laughter at a joke that fails to be the least bit funny

and I raise you genuine chortling, several guffaws, a generous helping of snickering, a pinch of snorting, folded into a fluffy layer of cackling sprinkled with a snowy dusting of cachinnation, a heaping helping of howling merriment all of which is covered in a thick buttery frosting of eye-watering hillarity as a result of the sight of you floundering in your clumsily bumptious attempts at repartee.

BTW - have you noticed how often you use the word "literal"? Did you know that being overly literal and uncontrollable misdirected hostility is considered to be one of the top ten signs of adult autism?

Yet autism is a laughing matter oh enlightened one?

michaelm · Dec 13, 2015

birdman said:
Well I put to you Rossi's fans are actually more powerful than he is. Leaders are only powerful in that they control subjects. This is going to extremes, but Hitler was not a power unto himself now was he? Not an impressive physical specimen. Not an Olympian athlete. Just a dude with a moustache. Yet he did motivate, in ways the world has basically never seen. Descent people did unthinkable things. In the name of a cause. To be champions of the world I assume? Humans remain primitive at their core. I certainly am.

Ok so Rossi is no Hitler, Oxley thinks he is a good decent human, but then curiously goes on to say many racers are not descent humans? I found that particularly odd. Being a good human and a good sportsman tends to be a bit of a contradiction philosophically speaking. For example in sport its acceptable, even desirable to take advantage of any weakness of the opponent, even when it doesn't exist - hi Casey. Fans dont exactly feel sorry for the opposition. Yet to be a good descent human, we need to protect the weak.

In my initial assessment of Oxley I wasnt so much surprised he needed to say Rossi was a decent human, as if that was under debate (as in what does he know of Rossi we dont?) but why he mentions sportsman often arent?

Ok so Rossi conducts his fans like the maestro he is. Yes, that's his greatest power, over Dorna and the opposition apparently. It is clear post PI Rossi did not want Iannone to be the subject of the fanbase hate. Whats interesting is how quickly Rossi himself redirected them to away from Iannone to Marquez. So I conclude he could now just as easily put them to ease with Marquez, but as far as I know he has let them persist, even though they threaten.

I think Oxley knows Valentino quite well personally, and was actually his biographer.

Everything I have ever heard suggests Valentino is a convivial and charming fellow away from racing.

He has obviously been a ruthless competitor on track, to which as a big Mick Doohan fan I can't take much exception.

It is the off track manipulation to which I have come to object, which he didn't need in his heyday but perhaps still employed, and which he has now employed rather openly in pursuit of a 10th title which he absolutely in no way required to validate his career in any case.

Keshav · Dec 13, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Did you know that studies have been done, where people who insist on using too many big words in an effort to try and make one sound smarter than they actually are, wind up looking stupid?

This is from a journal called Applied Cognitive Psychology and was written by a professor at Princeton. It's an interesting read.

http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/semantics/ConsequencesErudite.pdf

In your need to try and appear as if you have superior intelligence to me, or even others --which you don't-- you manage to completely .... that up as well.

Congratulations Kesh...you really have a way of making yourself look subsequently dumber with each post you make. I'm kind of impressed actually. But on the bright side, it makes it a cakewalk to point out everything that is wrong with you.

Of course as a wise man once said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. :happy:

Keshav · Dec 13, 2015

michaelm said:
I ended up supporting Lorenzo quite strongly for the 2015 title and having quite a degree of emotional investment in him, although I would have had no problem acknowledging a Rossi win had that occurred and which he looked likely to achieve by entirely fair means for much of the season. It was the PI press conference and events surrounding that which annoyed me, in particular that VR seemed to think that nobody should be allowed to race him except Jorge while being happy to keep the lead he had obtained when everyone was racing Jorge.

I am also giving him retrospective blame for the persecution of Casey Stoner by that element of his fandom which I think strongly contributed to his disillusionment with the sport; I was very happy for Casey to do what was best for him but still miss watching him ride, which I suspect I could have done for longer in the absence of all that nonsense.

Again, with you... "110%"

Keshav · Dec 13, 2015

birdman said:
Yet autism is a laughing matter oh enlightened one?

Heaven's no. Very much the opposite. When it goes undiagnosed it's quite sad. Tho they say laughter is the best medicine.

I hear that ASPD makes life tragically difficult for the sufferer and those around him as well.

MdubSTYLIE · Dec 13, 2015

Did somebody say cigar?

gekko1ro · Dec 13, 2015

JohnnyKnockdown · Dec 13, 2015

JPSLotus said:
You're like a ........ fortune cookie, each bit of "wisdom" that comes out of the inside is even stupider than the last.

I'm literally laughing as a type this.

Fuggin hilarious JPS!!

Keshav · Dec 13, 2015

"I know how this all ends. After a couple of thousand more words, dickwaving and chest-puffery, all the antagonists are going to realise the futility of attempting impose one's perception on another....

...riiiight"

Dr. No

Little Walter · Dec 13, 2015

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Fuggin hilarious JPS!!

I give up. Trying for a while and can't place the face of you new avatar. Who is that?

Jumkie · Dec 13, 2015

Little Walter said:
I give up. Trying for a while and can't place the face of you new avatar. Who is that?

It's a self portrait.

The Untouchables

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