The Tornada blows up a desert storm

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The Tornada blows up a desert storm
Qatar Test: Day 1
(14/02/2007)

Multi Monday champion Colin Edwards showed us why, after Nicky Hayden, Lunatic Lorenzo, Casey Stoner, Sete Gibernau and Marco Melandri, he was Yamaha's number one choice to be their number two rider.

The Texan, who often dreams about Assen if he eats too much cheese before bed, set the fastest time on day one of the official MotoGP Paris-to-Dakar test. The safety issue, that HRC sold us, was once again booted in the unprotected soft regions as the American's impressive time of 1min 56.774secs was quicker than last year's fastest race lap set by the fading ex-champ Valentino Rossi.

Despite the pressure of the entire MotoGP field being present and against his run of form the Italian Valentino Rossi didn't crumble under the pressure this time setting the second fastest time within a tartar scraping of Edwards.

Fresh from gaining a distinction from Sete's Clown College of Excellence, Casey Stoner proved that to be funny on the track first you need to be fast on the track. The 14 year old Australian put down his chuzzabong to set a time that was almost as impressive as his own self-esteem. Crucially Stoner was the fastest Bridgestone rider and over half a second faster than his team mate Loris 'the physical results of child smoking' Capirossi.

The fastest rider to almost fall under the black and sinister HRC umbrella was the superb widescreen-friendly American Kenny McRoberts Jnr. Many had believed that the 800cc engine would further expose Junior's power-to-weight ratio but the American coated his critics in low-fat dressing and tossed them on to the salad bar by setting the fourth fastest time. This result helped strengthen the belief that HRC are a bit rubbish at building frames.

Nicky Hayden WC flushed away his recent beefs with his new Honda to set a time only three tenths shy of Edwards. Hayden, known as the 'Kentucky Kid' as an amalgamation of his birth location and having an education proportion to an average four year-old, was immediately on the pace meaning the sickly wussy "we need more power but I'm sure my boys at Honda will come through" comments were thankfully kept to a minimum.

Haystack's partically portioned team-mate Pedrosa was less impressive finishing day one in tenth. The smile-shy little git found he could only slowly improve as his Intel Celeron processor struggled to cope with the sheer mass of raw data being inputted.

After Suzuki's Phillip Island nightmare it was a welcome relief for Comical Denning and his army to see Hooligan Hoppers back on form. The angry American publicly kicked the crap out of his Suzy here last year but was more relaxed this time out finishing in Edwardth position.

Then, closely behind, came the rest. So closely in fact that positions 3rd to 15th were all covered by less than a second.

On the Ellison side of the timesheets Ilmor GP team again struggled but were at least a metric inch closer from the pack racing away miles ahead.
Returning from his horrific injuries and stuck to the back of the times like a Dunlop clad limpet was the antique Ulsterman Jeremy McWilliams. The Lepricorn of MotoGP struggled to even walk yet alone ride despite him using the latest Irish method of a 'Guinness Chamber' to speed up his healing process.


1. Colin Edwards USA Factory Yamaha Team (M) 1min 56.774secs
2. Valentino Rossi ITA Factory Yamaha Team (M) 1min 56.891secs
3. Casey Stoner AUS Ducati Marlboro Team ( 1min 56.960secs
4. Kenny Roberts USA Team Roberts (M) 1min 57.064secs
5. Nicky Hayden USA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 57.070secs
6. John Hopkins USA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP ( 1min 57.350secs
7. Loris Capirossi ITA Ducati Marlboro Team ( 1min 57.360secs
8. Carlos Checa SPA Honda LCR (M) 1min 57.370secs
9. Alex Barros BRA Pramac d'Antin MotoGP ( 1min 57.690secs
10. Dani Pedrosa SPA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 57.700secs
11. Randy de Puniet FRA Kawasaki Racing Team ( 1min 57.730secs
12. Marco Melandri ITA Gresini Honda ( 1min 57.760secs
13. Alex Hofmann GER Pramac d'Antin MotoGP ( 1min 57.800secs
14. Shinya Nakano JPN Konica Minolta Honda (M) 1min 57.850secs
15. Chris Vermeulen AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP ( 1min 57.900secs
16. Makoto Tamada JPN Tech 3 Yamaha (D) 1min 58.408secs
17. Olivier Jacque FRA Kawasaki Racing Team ( 1min 58.740secs
18. Toni Elias SPA Gresini Honda ( 1min 59.400secs
19. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Tech 3 Yamaha (D) 1min 59.740secs
20. Shinichi Ito JPN Ducati ( 1min 59.966secs
21. Andrew Pitt AUS Ilmor GP (M) 2min 1.677secs
22. Jeremy McWilliams GBR Ilmor GP (M) 2min 10.341secs

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 14 2007, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Texan, who often dreams about Assen if he eats too much cheese before bed,

I think we are witnessing a very good thing. Namely the evolution of Valentino Rossi and how he utilizes his teamates. I will explain myself. In the past being Rossi's teamate meant you were to help develop the bike and rack up the bulk of the testing laps. Then when race day came you were never to get in Rossi's way and finish in a respectable position somewhere in the top ten. When Rossi was on the Honda it was no problem he had a bike that was waaaaayyy better than everything on the track so his one-man show could flourish and he was mostly unchallenged. Fast forward to present day, the Yamaha has not been the equal of the honda. It took a rider of unparallelled skill (shameless Rossi fan plug ) and the best mechanic team in the business to make a winner out of the M-1. With the horrible job Yamaha did with the M-1 we watched Rossi push the limits of his considerable talent ( ) and even showsigns of vulnerability. Yamaha understood what needed to be done. Colin will be needed to fly as Rossi's wing-man. Why, you ask? I will tell you why. Points, Colin will be needed to take points away from the opposition. I think it's about time they release the shackles from Colin edwards and we will see what a good team these two proven winners can be working together both off and on the track.

Man I cannot wait for the new season to start.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 14 2007, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>from www.motogpnews.com...

Haystack's partically portioned team-mate Pedrosa was less impressive finishing day one in tenth. The smile-shy little git found he could only slowly improve as his Intel Celeron processor struggled to cope with the sheer mass of raw data being inputted.

Yamaha 1-2 again, they're looking strong! Hopefully Colin can keep up with Rossi and the others in the races now though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Feb 14 2007, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think we are witnessing a very good thing. Namely the evolution of Valentino Rossi and how he utilizes his teamates. I will explain myself. In the past being Rossi's teamate meant you were to help develop the bike and rack up the bulk of the testing laps. Then when race day came you were never to get in Rossi's way and finish in a respectable position somewhere in the top ten. When Rossi was on the Honda it was no problem he had a bike that was waaaaayyy better than everything on the track so his one-man show could flourish and he was mostly unchallenged. Fast forward to present day, the Yamaha has not been the equal of the honda. It took a rider of unparallelled skill (shameless Rossi fan plug ) and the best mechanic team in the business to make a winner out of the M-1. With the horrible job Yamaha did with the M-1 we watched Rossi push the limits of his considerable talent ( ) and even showsigns of vulnerability. Yamaha understood what needed to be done. Colin will be needed to fly as Rossi's wing-man. Why, you ask? I will tell you why. Points, Colin will be needed to take points away from the opposition. I think it's about time they release the shackles from Colin edwards and we will see what a good team these two proven winners can be working together both off and on the track.

Man I cannot wait for the new season to start.

I disagree with a almost all of what is said here. Idealy the second Yamaha rider should have been taking points from Hondas all along, but he has been underacheiving. I doubt things will change, Edwards has not been shackled. Also, he is not a proven winner, he hasn't won a race since he came to gp. And just to add, the yamaha has been an equal, and arguably superior bike since 2005 started.

so to summaries, i think we will see rossi utalizing as much as he can from every advantage he can possibly gain, but i don't think Edwards' role has changed. I would like to see his results change, but i'll need to see it to believe it, because so far, nothing is new.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 15 2007, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I disagree with a almost all of what is said here. Idealy the second Yamaha rider should have been taking points from Hondas all along, but he has been underacheiving. I doubt things will change, Edwards has not been shackled. Also, he is not a proven winner, he hasn't won a race since he came to gp. And just to add, the yamaha has been an equal, and arguably superior bike since 2005 started.

so to summaries, i think we will see rossi utalizing as much as he can from every advantage he can possibly gain, but i don't think Edwards' role has changed. I would like to see his results change, but i'll need to see it to believe it, because so far, nothing is new.

Wether or not we agree on Colin's skill or not is a matter of opinion. Personally I think he has in fact been under-utilized, but this remains to be seen. I will refer you to the Incident race where Dani punted Nicky from his bike, how fast was Edwards?

The fact that you think the Yamaha has been Honda's equal is an illusion. Rossi has made the bike seem this way by virtue of his superior skill. To illustrate that fact look at the number of race wins from the time he was with Honda to the time he has been on Yamaha. You will notice a sharp decrease in winning percentage. It is not possible that he has lost that much skill. Everyone in the Gp paddock realizes that the Honda has been a superior machine. When you Had Rossi's unequaled skill together with the Honda's mechanical superiority it created an almost unbeatable package. Why is it so difficult for people to admit that what we are witnessing in Rossi's career is pure unadulterated genius on a race bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Feb 16 2007, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wether or not we agree on Colin's skill or not is a matter of opinion. Personally I think he has in fact been under-utilized, but this remains to be seen. I will refer you to the Incident race where Dani punted Nicky from his bike, how fast was Edwards?

The fact that you think the Yamaha has been Honda's equal is an illusion. Rossi has made the bike seem this way by virtue of his superior skill. To illustrate that fact look at the number of race wins from the time he was with Honda to the time he has been on Yamaha. You will notice a sharp decrease in winning percentage. It is not possible that he has lost that much skill. Everyone in the Gp paddock realizes that the Honda has been a superior machine. When you Had Rossi's unequaled skill together with the Honda's mechanical superiority it created an almost unbeatable package. Why is it so difficult for people to admit that what we are witnessing in Rossi's career is pure unadulterated genius on a race bike.

You say how fast was edwards, and i will answer not fast enough to be on the podium. given that two guys who are obviously better than him went down, a 4th place was a bit of a gift.

I am not going to try and take away from what rossi has done, it is incredible. But the reason Rossi is winning less races is not just because of his bike. For a start, he won as many in 2005 as he did on his honda, so that quite strongly backs up my point. Secondly, Rossi's isn't as far ahead as he was because the electronic systems and TC are allowing more guys to get the best from their machines, reducing Rossis advantage. And he wasn't riding at his best last year (one of the most competative years ever) and he payed for it.

I think Rossis factory change is an impressive move, but it gets over hyped, as if the yamaha continues to be some kind of Dog, when in fact it was inferior in 2004, but since then that has not been the case.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 16 2007, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You say how fast was edwards, and i will answer not fast enough to be on the podium. given that two guys who are obviously better than him went down, a 4th place was a bit of a gift.

I am not going to try and take away from what rossi has done, it is incredible. But the reason Rossi is winning less races is not just because of his bike. For a start, he won as many in 2005 as he did on his honda, so that quite strongly backs up my point. Secondly, Rossi's isn't as far ahead as he was because the electronic systems and TC are allowing more guys to get the best from their machines, reducing Rossis advantage. And he wasn't riding at his best last year (one of the most competative years ever) and he payed for it.

I think Rossis factory change is an impressive move, but it gets over hyped, as if the yamaha continues to be some kind of Dog, when in fact it was inferior in 2004, but since then that has not been the case.

My friend, while I respect your opinion we must agree to disagree on this point. I will grant you that Colin does need to prove himself in the Motogp arena. I do not agree that the M-1 has been Honda's equal. I do think you do make some very valid points about the electronics giving more riders a chance at being in the mix of things. I hope Colin doesnt make a liar out of me this year though.

yeah i think we will have to leave it, we can't really work out how good the bikes really are without riding them, so its just opinions. And i too hope we see an improvement in Colins success this year, he is an excellent lovable character and i would love to see him nearer the front than in the past.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Feb 16 2007, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do not agree that the M-1 has been Honda's equal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 16 2007, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah i think we will have to leave it, we can't really work out how good the bikes really are without riding them, so its just opinions.

I am sorry to come in a bit late and when you already kind of dropt it, my only questions on leveled bikes (Honda and Yamaha) would be why have most riders complained that they are not equal? Most Honda riders would not give up that sit (Hayden, Melandri, Elias, Roberts for the engine) and most would want it more than anything (Checa, Nakano). It’s not clear to me other than for a better bike. Many more cases than those involved wanting a Yamaha sit!

Believe me if the yamaha was as good as rossi made it(05 and 06 factory bikes), but rossi wasn't riding it then a LOT of people would want that ride. But as it stands, non of the serious guys really want to play second best to rossi in that team. I mean if you could be a works honda rider, would you tyake colin edwrds' job??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2007, 03:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Believe me if the yamaha was as good as rossi made it(05 and 06 factory bikes), but rossi wasn't riding it then a LOT of people would want that ride. But as it stands, non of the serious guys really want to play second best to rossi in that team. I mean if you could be a works honda rider, would you tyake colin edwrds' job??



Still not convinced completely Tom, because when Rossi had it all his way, meaning the best bike on the grid back at Honda, which was from ’00 till ’03… There were a least a couple of great riders: Barros (his worst of them 4 seasons was on the Yamaha and did much better on a satellite Honda). Biaggi (’00, ’01, ’02 complained about Yamaha and wanted Honda which he got a satellite in ‘04). Gibernau (crappy ’00 on a satellite Honda unlike Rossi, really tough ’01 & ’02 with susuki, and great ’03 with Honda). Melandri (in ’03 could have done better on a Honda I guess). And so on, that had Rossi on a Honda (factory ride on ’02 and ’03) and still others wanted a Honda ride.

I mean those four years Rossi was there and others also wanted a Honda ride!

Thats because realistically speaking the honda was the only bike worthy of the world championship untill Jeremy Burgess sorted out the yamaha and the Ducati-Bridgestone partnership started to work.

From 2002-04 if you realistically wanted to be world champion, a Honda bike was the ONLY option. Then Rossi moved to yamaha in 2004, Honda is still the best option, but the ducati is a little better. For 2005 and 2006, the championship could have been taken on a honda or a yamaha, outside shot for Ducati.

If you are a rider wanting to be world champion in 05 or 06, and you were given the choice between two equal bikes (Honda and yamaha) but you could be a honda top man, compared to rossis backup rider. I know what i would choose.

Plus, honda is a safer option, they have larger resources and smart money would say its good to stick with them for the rule change. So from a career point of view the honda is a good way to go, and this i don't doubt. But for actual on track performance, the yamaha has been as good as the honda for a couple of years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2007, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Plus, honda is a safer option, they have larger resources and smart money would say its good to stick with them for the rule change. So from a career point of view the honda is a good way to go, and this i don't doubt. But for actual on track performance, the yamaha has been as good as the honda for a couple of years.

I agree that there are more to the rider preferences than performance alone, however I think it's not only those factors that count . In '04 the Yamaha were clearly underpowered compared to the Honda. Even slightly so in 05, and both reliability and chassi problems in '06. Of those years '05 were probably Yamahas best year. Bur in my opinion the interesting part is what hapens this year.

As stable and good their bike look right now I guess the big truth of how good the Yamaha is will be decided by how well Edwards does it this year. It's hard to decide how fast the bike is with rossi on, ecept that is is faster than the rest on most occations. His ability to adapt and how fast he is put an unmeasurable factor into the equation. In my opinion Edwards is as fast as any other rider out there, except Rossi, and if he's suddely there regulary in the fight for the podium (as he himself has said he will be, on a couple of occations now) we see that as a result of a bike that are competetive with the Hondas, not because the tornado has become so much faster or that the yamaha is better than the other bikes. Well if Rossi and Edwards take 1 & 2 the three first races that might be the case, but but that would surprice me a lot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2007, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Plus, honda is a safer option, they have larger resources and smart money would say its good to stick with them for the rule change. So from a career point of view the honda is a good way to go, and this i don't doubt. But for actual on track performance, the yamaha has been as good as the honda for a couple of years.

Hypothetically speaking, which rider (from anyone on the grid) other than Rossi could have taken the title on a Yamaha in ’05 or ‘06? I can see your point on a Bridgestone/Ducati because Capirossi was a closer possibility in ‘06.

On the other hand, you rather said it yourself… Honda is safer way to go for resources or rule change or some other reasons, which is kind of the point, it is a bit easier for riders on Hondas and a bit of a disadvantage for none Honda riders!

Just a bit.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 17 2007, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that there are more to the rider preferences than performance alone, however I think it's not only those factors that count . In '04 the Yamaha were clearly underpowered compared to the Honda. Even slightly so in 05, and both reliability and chassi problems in '06. Of those years '05 were probably Yamahas best year. Bur in my opinion the interesting part is what hapens this year.

Yes i agree, the 05 yamaha was still slightly underpowered, but had advantages in other areas, it was more nimble, and its corner entry stability was what made honda build nicky hayden his "evo" bike. The 2006 situation is a good example of how the superior honda resources help. The 06 yamaha was as good on the track when it worked, but the engine broke down a few times. That is less likely at Honda.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Feb 17 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hypothetically speaking, which rider (from anyone on the grid) other than Rossi could have taken the title on a Yamaha in ’05 or ‘06? I can see your point on a Bridgestone/Ducati because Capirossi was a closer possibility in ‘06.

On the other hand, you rather said it yourself… Honda is safer way to go for resources or rule change or some other reasons, which is kind of the point, it is a bit easier for riders on Hondas and a bit of a disadvantage for none Honda riders!

Just a bit.



I think no other rider could have beaten rossi on that yamaha, rossi had one of the greatest years of his career so far. But i don't think the overall performance of most of the top riders would not have been that different if they were using yamahas (if you hypothetically rule out the fact that they would have to adapt to new machinary and maybe tires).

The main difference would be that riding the same bike as rossi makes it harder to win, because if hes struggling with tires or chassis set-up, the chances are you are too. On a honda, a rider can take advantage every time things don't work out for rossi in the setup/tire department. Also when everythings working fine for everyone, a honda rider will have different strengths and weakneses to rossi, making it possible to not directly out ride him. On a matching bike that is not such an option.

I do understand that Rossi gave himself a disadvantage moving to yamaha. At fisrt that disadvantage was big, but by the first race it was smaller, by mid season it was smaller still. By the start of 2005 the bike disadvantage was actually gone, and the remaining factor for rossi was now that he was going to be swarmed by honda riders with bikes working well in different areas to his. I think that issue was not THAT big, but made dogfights a little harder for him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2007, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes i agree, the 05 yamaha was still slightly underpowered, but had advantages in other areas, it was more nimble, and its corner entry stability was what made honda build nicky hayden his "evo" bike. The 2006 situation is a good example of how the superior honda resources help. The 06 yamaha was as good on the track when it worked, but the engine broke down a few times. That is less likely at Honda.
I think no other rider could have beaten rossi on that yamaha, rossi had one of the greatest years of his career so far. But i don't think the overall performance of most of the top riders would not have been that different if they were using yamahas (if you hypothetically rule out the fact that they would have to adapt to new machinary and maybe tires).

The main difference would be that riding the same bike as rossi makes it harder to win, because if hes struggling with tires or chassis set-up, the chances are you are too. On a honda, a rider can take advantage every time things don't work out for rossi in the setup/tire department. Also when everythings working fine for everyone, a honda rider will have different strengths and weakneses to rossi, making it possible to not directly out ride him. On a matching bike that is not such an option.

I do understand that Rossi gave himself a disadvantage moving to yamaha. At fisrt that disadvantage was big, but by the first race it was smaller, by mid season it was smaller still. By the start of 2005 the bike disadvantage was actually gone, and the remaining factor for rossi was now that he was going to be swarmed by honda riders with bikes working well in different areas to his. I think that issue was not THAT big, but made dogfights a little harder for him.

Hey Tom. I think you are forgetting how bad the 2006 Yzr M1 really was. Rossi and Colin both had to switch to the 2005 Chassis due to unsolvable front end chatter. Rossi was forced to charge to the front in most races. This was because they were to change their race/qualifying strategy. They had to concentrate on setting up the bike for the race as best as they could. After that they counted on Rossi's ability to charge to the front early. This illustrates what I said earlier that Rossi had to push very hard all race long because the Yamaha cocked up the M-1.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Feb 18 2007, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Tom. I think you are forgetting how bad the 2006 Yzr M1 really was. Rossi and Colin both had to switch to the 2005 Chassis due to unsolvable front end chatter. Rossi was forced to charge to the front in most races. This was because they were to change their race/qualifying strategy. They had to concentrate on setting up the bike for the race as best as they could. After that they counted on Rossi's ability to charge to the front early. This illustrates what I said earlier that Rossi had to push very hard all race long because the Yamaha cocked up the M-1.

Granted, this years bike had a few issues, but about twice every year you'll hear honda guys asking for last years chassis back because they have either huge chatter or no front end feel. The difference is that the aren't valentino rossi. And as for "yamaha" ruining the bike. I think Rossi got a bit lazy over winter and start of last year, maybe he should have spent less time tarting around in cars and done more testing milage.

And just to draw a comparison, the yamaha had a chassis that wouldn't let it qualify well, but the honda had a clutch that made starts near impossible. sounds about even to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 18 2007, 04:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Granted, this years bike had a few issues, but about twice every year you'll hear honda guys asking for last years chassis back because they have either huge chatter or no front end feel. The difference is that the aren't valentino rossi. And as for "yamaha" ruining the bike. I think Rossi got a bit lazy over winter and start of last year, maybe he should have spent less time tarting around in cars and done more testing milage.

And just to draw a comparison, the yamaha had a chassis that wouldn't let it qualify well, but the honda had a clutch that made starts near impossible. sounds about even to me.

You make a good point about Rossi becoming a bit complacent, maybe he has had his wakeup call. The Honda on the otherhand and the clutch issues was only complained about ironically by their championship winner, Nicky Hayden.