Tardozzi: Stoner is the best rider in MotoGP

Hopefully Rossi and JB will go to Ducati in 2011, or Stoner will go to Yamaha, and then lets see how Stoner and Rossi match up.
I think in 2007 the Ducati was a better bike, pretty even in 2008 and the Yamaha well ahead in 2009.
I think Stoner has improved since 2007.

See what Lorenzo says about Stoner;
http://www.crash.net/motogp/video/155538/1..._interview.html
"aside from Rossi, Stoner is definitely the toughest competitor. If he's in shape, and the track and his bike are fine, he's almost invincible"

Not much to debate here.
Stoner is the fastest and 2nd best overall rider in MotoGP.
Considering the last 3 years, number of wins, fast laps, pole positions... etc.

I wouldn't say he is currently the best, because as we all know he finished 4th overall this season while Rossi did his thing. But i'd say hes got as good chance as anyone to be champion next year. It is as legitimate to claim he is the best now as it was to claim Rossi was the best in 07, a fairly common opinion but not one i agree with.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 10 2010, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not much to debate here.
Stoner is the fastest and 2nd best overall rider in MotoGP.
Considering the last 3 years, number of wins, fast laps, pole positions... etc.


Absolutely. I,ve been saying this for ages. Stoner has to be fit and stay healthy and win more races than the rest and THEN we can call him the best.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 10 2010, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My statement had nothing to do with rossi. It had to do with cs not having what it take to be the best. Could I be wrong? Sure, only time will tell. But I stand by he will never be consider the best. There is more to this sport to just being fast, and I don't see casey ever having the "it" factor to make him the best. When rossi is gone, the torch willl be passed to Lorenzo or Spies or someone else not in gp right now. But it won't be the feeble minded boy from oz.
Leaving aside rossi, which I feel is justifiable in the context of this thread since tardozzi would seem to have done so, it is a matter of historical fact that stoner is capable of winning 10 races in a premier class season. Please name riders in the field other than rossi with this proven capability. For that matter the list of riders with this proven capability in premier class gp racing history is quite a short one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 10 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies is better than Stoner in every way..yeah i said it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
Fair comment in the context of this thread. As someone whom I can't quite seem to recall said, "we'll see".

I have some remaining concerns about his size in the current formula, particularly if the bikes are de-powered for longevity this year. The guy is ice cool and methodical, and certainly it seems unlikely that he will beat himself or be susceptible to any mindgames which may be employed against him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jan 10 2010, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely. I,ve been saying this for ages. Stoner has to be fit and stay healthy and win more races than the rest and THEN we can call him the best.

yeah cs only needs 6 more championships in the top class...then back track for a 125 and 250 championship..then he'll be right there

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 11 2010, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Fair comment in the context of this thread. As someone whom I can't quite seem to recall said, "we'll see".

I have some remaining concerns about his size in the current formula, particularly if the bikes are de-powered for longevity this year. The guy is ice cool and methodical, and certainly it seems unlikely that he will beat himself or be susceptible to any mindgames which may be employed against him.

when the big boy bikes return...it'll be all Spies

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Jan 11 2010, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... Nuts, Tardozing also implied the Duc wasn't a ..... to ride...

Where does he say that ?

In fact Tardozzi is pretty much sayibg that Duc's success is solely down to Stoner,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 11 2010, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Leaving aside rossi, which I feel is justifiable in the context of this thread since tardozzi would seem to have done so, it is a matter of historical fact that stoner is capable of winning 10 races in a premier class season. Please name riders in the field other than rossi with this proven capability. For that matter the list of riders with this proven capability in premier class gp racing history is quite a short one.
Its not about the other riders. Its about the "if he stays healthy" and the "if his bike is perfect" situation. The other people I think capable of winning 10 races are all not as seasoned as him yet, Lorenzo and Spies. Quite possibly one of the rookies as well in a few years. So I my eyes if he wants to be anything more than really fast he better start maturing right now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 11 2010, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its not about the other riders. Its about the "if he stays healthy" and the "if his bike is perfect" situation. The other people I think capable of winning 10 races are all not as seasoned as him yet, Lorenzo and Spies. Quite possibly one of the rookies as well in a few years. So I my eyes if he wants to be anything more than really fast he better start maturing right now.
He has done it , as have few others in history (most of whom were fairly healthy and all of whom had adequate machinery), the others haven't, end of story.

The corollary of your argument would seem to be that mick doohan is greater than rossi since he had a fused ankle in his seasons with 10 or more wins, not that I can in all conscience agree with you.

Dont count 2006 as Stoner was Rookie, now you see:

PODIUM:
2009:
Rossi: 13
Stoner: 8

2008:
Rossi: 16
Stoner: 11

2007:
Rossi: 8
Stoner: 14

WIN:
2009:
Rossi: 6
Stoner: 4

2008:
Rossi: 9
Stoner: 6

2007:
Rossi: 4
Stoner: 10


Rossi 's chart is up, Stoner's chart is going down. 2007 is the transition year. So you can see how good your Stoner are compare to Rossi.

People dont know who CAN ride faster because they are on different bike. I sure that they dont want to know that, they only know who is the winner in the race.

Next year will be disappointed, MotoGP is becoming F1. the percentage contribution of the bike into result becomes bigger and bigger.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 10 2010, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do believe that Tardozi was referring to Stoner as the best RIDER in MotoGP. It seems some of you place higher value on PERSONALITY and therefore come to some sort of fancifully conclusion that because Stoner does not have the flamboyant personality of the euro's he is not as good a rider. This is probably where the fans and the people on the inside differ. An insider like Tardozi probably doesn't give a .... about flamboyance he only cares about how fast you can ride a motorcycle and how many races you can win for him. On this note Stoner is clearly on par with Rossi because since Stoner has been racing in MotoGP (besides his rookie year on a low grade satelite bike) he has matched Rossi for wins and has one championship to Rossi's 2. If you take into consideration Rossi's vast experience he has to draw on in comparison to Stoner's then it would not be rediculous to say that in the absence of Rossi like experience to match someone like Rossi you must be drawing on some other component to be successful. Perhaps this is what Tardozi is commenting on - Stoner's undeniable talent and skill at riding a motorcycle faster than any other human being on Earth.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nghiemlong @ Jan 11 2010, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dont count 2006 as Stoner was Rookie, now you see:

PODIUM:
2009:
Rossi: 13
Stoner: 8

2008:
Rossi: 16
Stoner: 11

2007:
Rossi: 8
Stoner: 14

WIN:
2009:
Rossi: 6
Stoner: 4

2008:
Rossi: 9
Stoner: 6

2007:
Rossi: 4
Stoner: 10

Thats exactly why I say he is not maturing. Not to mention, tossing cookies in ones helmet, getting a severe case of road rage, taking two months off after a month off over a "mystery" illness, making bad tire choices for the team, he is not getting better at the media, and his inability to notice his surroundings like when its cold and windy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 11 2010, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He has done it , as have few others in history (most of whom were fairly healthy and all of whom had adequate machinery), the others haven't, end of story.

The corollary of your argument would seem to be that mick doohan is greater than rossi since he had a fused ankle in his seasons with 10 or more wins, not that I can in all conscience agree with you.
Why in the hell did you write end of story, and then continue the argument?
Anyway I am saying there is a lot more to being the best than being fast. I didn't say .... about being the toughest, but we can definitely threw him out of the toughness category. End of story in that chapter for sure. My argument was that he will never be the best just faster than everyone most of the time, but he is waayyyy to stupid to ever be the best. 10 wins a few years ago, so ....... what?? I can tell you this it's only going to get harder for him to repeat that feat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 11 2010, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats exactly why I say he is not maturing. Not to mention, tossing cookies in ones helmet, getting a severe case of road rage, taking two months off after a month off over a "mystery" illness, making bad tire choices for the team, he is not getting better at the media, and his inability to notice his surroundings like when its cold and windy.
Always the determining factor when considering that greats and the also-rans...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 11 2010, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why in the hell did you write end of story, and then continue the argument?
Anyway I am saying there is a lot more to being the best than being fast. I didn't say .... about being the toughest, but we can definitely threw him out of the toughness category. End of story in that chapter for sure. My argument was that he will never be the best just faster than everyone most of the time, but he is waayyyy to stupid to ever be the best. 10 wins a few years ago, so ....... what?? I can tell you this it's only going to get harder for him to repeat that feat.
I don't follow why you keep claiming him to be stupid? He appears to be just as intelligent as any other rider out there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 11 2010, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Always the determining factor when considering that greats and the also-rans...


I don't follow why you keep claiming him to be stupid? He appears to be just as intelligent as any other rider out there.


He doesn't make smart choices. Donny for one, Valencia for two. The smart rider or "better" rider would have just followed suit at donny knowing he could win on an even playing field, not having to go against the grid to beat them. He always said the thing rides better in the cold and wet. Why make a extreme decision?

At Valencia a smart rider would have know it was cold and took it a little easy on the warm up. Especially with his unusual approach to warm up laps. A smart rider is aware of things like that, and Casey is not. He is just stupid fast, and he will continue to have dramatic crashes until he smartens up and becomes more aware of everything going on around him.

I predict he will have more years like his rookie season in motogp. Probably as soon as the season after next with the 1000's coming back. He will ride to hard and crash often not even finishing in the top 6 below Nicky.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 11 2010, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He doesn't make smart choices. Donny for one, Valencia for two. The smart rider or "better" rider would have just followed suit at donny knowing he could win on an even playing field, not having to go against the grid to beat them. He always said the thing rides better in the cold and wet. Why make a extreme decision?

At Valencia a smart rider would have know it was cold and took it a little easy on the warm up. Especially with his unusual approach to warm up laps. A smart rider is aware of things like that, and Casey is not. He is just stupid fast, and he will continue to have dramatic crashes until he smartens up and becomes more aware of everything going on around him.

I predict he will have more years like his rookie season in motogp. Probably as soon as the season after next with the 1000's coming back. He will ride to hard and crash often not even finishing in the top 6 below Nicky.
Donny was a gamble, but based on his fitness at the time, he wasn't going to fight at the front if it stayed dry anyways. He said so himself.

As far as Valencia, he's been doing that sort of a warm up lap for a long time and it hadn't bitten him before. It's not as if Valencia 2009 was the first cold race he had taken part in. The tire wasn't up to temp. as he thought it was, it gave and over the top he went. If he's done it countless times successfully, I don't see how one error makes his decision to do so stupid.

MdubSTYLIE, this forum needs people like you.

Some stats on your favorite rider 20 wins 34 podiums and has started from pole 18 times since entering motogp in 2006. Not bad for a ''Stupid'' person.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 11 2010, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He doesn't make smart choices. Donny for one, Valencia for two. The smart rider or "better" rider would have just followed suit at donny knowing he could win on an even playing field, not having to go against the grid to beat them. He always said the thing rides better in the cold and wet. Why make a extreme decision?

At Valencia a smart rider would have know it was cold and took it a little easy on the warm up. Especially with his unusual approach to warm up laps. A smart rider is aware of things like that, and Casey is not. He is just stupid fast, and he will continue to have dramatic crashes until he smartens up and becomes more aware of everything going on around him.

I predict he will have more years like his rookie season in motogp. Probably as soon as the season after next with the 1000's coming back. He will ride to hard and crash often not even finishing in the top 6 below Nicky.

You are becoming - in relationship to Stoner
what Pinky has been to Hayden. You are thinking
with some other part of your physique other than
the one between your ears. With all the absurd
predictions you're making - you invite others to
to stake your membership here on them. The
constant baseless accusations against Stoner
paints a picture in my mind of high school
hallway bullies who can't resist picking on nerds
who are 100 time smarter than themselves. The
fact that Stoner is so mild mannered and non-macho
pisses you off so much that it makes you say irrational
things that are not based in any logical or rational thinking.
If you'd been following MotoGP back in the '80s you would
have doubtless hated Freddie Spencer too. He was a major
(born again Christian no less) nerd too. He also suffered from
depression; doubtless you'd have said his mind was weak.

Tardozzi did NOT say Stoner is the "greatest of all time", it seems this has been the typical debate fallacy premise to defend. He did say: "Ducati has the best rider in the championship, Casey Stoner – and I say that with no fear of being misinterpreted." Perhaps he added "and I say that with no fear of being misinterpreted." because he knew the only people 'misinterpreting' are a peculiar brand of fan. The statement means he is the best rider currently. Considering that Casey beat Rossi in 3 of the last 4 races (might have been 4/4 had he not tossed it in Valencia, oh, and before people say this is proof he is a tosser ,no pun intended, remind us of Indy please), so it doesn't seem that far fetched to make such a statement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 11 2010, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tardozzi did NOT say Stoner is the "greatest of all time"

The statement means he is the best rider currently.

Thank you Jumkie! Its odd that so many people have trouble understanding this. It comes up again and again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>So I my eyes if he wants to be anything more than really fast he better start maturing right now.

He is already far more than really fast! WORLD CHAMPION, if you care to remember