Tardozzi: Stoner is the best rider in MotoGP

Well they say you're only as good as your last race...oh

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jan 9 2010, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well they say you're only as good as your last race...oh

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Yeah? Were "they" saying that about Rossi after he choked in 2006?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 9 2010, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Calling him the best is a joke. Gb makes some very good reasons why. The girl is fast, but besides that he is a complete tool and knows nothing of what it takes to be a winner. He makes horrible decisions one after another after another. "The best" is a person who does not call in when .... gets tough. He does not let off track issues effect his performance on the track. Casey Stoner is not the best and no matter how many championships he wins he never will be. He is just way to stupid. He reminds me of Cole Trickle. "I just know how to go fast." And thats it.
Are you going to stand by that statement? I don't think that's even Rossi goggles, that's like Rossi lasik surgery. I think if he were to surpass Rossi's totals, however unlikely, that would be justification for him to be considered better than Rossi.

I think he can ride a motorcycle faster than anyone out there right now. But package everything together, experience, intelligence, race craft and overall speed, I still think he falls short of Rossi. Although I will say that in the races he started after his break, he looked every bit as composed and intelligent and fast as Rossi. He could be on the verge of transitioning from rider to racer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 9 2010, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you going to stand by that statement? I don't think that's even Rossi goggles, that's like Rossi lasik surgery.



I think Mdub's problem is not so much pro-Rossi eyesight, but that Casey doesn't satisfy his bizarre pseudo-macho behavioral 'standard.' Being human is just not acceptable, I guess.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I think he can ride a motorcycle faster than anyone out there right now. But package everything together, experience, intelligence, race craft and overall speed, I still think he falls short of Rossi. Although I will say that in the races he started after his break, he looked every bit as composed and intelligent and fast as Rossi. He could be on the verge of transitioning from rider to racer.

I don't see that he needs a whole lot of work. He's no Lorenzo, and has always been a little more cautious when passing, but you seldom see him stuck behind a slower rider for long. He's certainly light-years ahead of fast-but-useless Peddles in the racecraft department. (Of course, who isn't?) Maybe a touch more 'killer instinct' would help, but then again, look at how many times Jorge has wadded it while pushing too hard. It's a fine line to walk; without the ability to read his mind, I can't say that Casey is all that 'wrong' in his approach.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 10 2010, 02:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you going to stand by that statement? I don't think that's even Rossi goggles, that's like Rossi lasik surgery. I think if he were to surpass Rossi's totals, however unlikely, that would be justification for him to be considered better than Rossi.

I think he can ride a motorcycle faster than anyone out there right now. But package everything together, experience, intelligence, race craft and overall speed, I still think he falls short of Rossi. Although I will say that in the races he started after his break, he looked every bit as composed and intelligent and fast as Rossi. He could be on the verge of transitioning from rider to racer.
I agree.And i'm really looking forward to this years season hoping the factories and riders will be at their best.(No crashes in testing and Honda and Ducati catch up)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jan 9 2010, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah? Were "they" saying that about Rossi after he choked in 2006? Yes, it went "Rossi is finished"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 10 2010, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although I will say that in the races he started after his break, he looked every bit as intelligent...I'd like a direct example of that, he was as composed ever, but I don't think that he had do anything that showed a racing intelligence.

Lucky we have guys on here who know way more about MotoGP than Davide Tardozzi to set us straight.

I'm not saying he is the best, or is not the best (and I really don't know - but it would have to come down to Stoner or Rossi), but Tardozzi should know his .... when it comes to Ducati, and the ability of other riders.

Spies is better than Stoner in every way..yeah i said it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif

.... Nuts, Tardozing also implied the Duc wasn't a ..... to ride... Unbiased opinion ya think?

Go Curvey!!! .... 'em all!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 9 2010, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you going to stand by that statement? I don't think that's even Rossi goggles, that's like Rossi lasik surgery. I think if he were to surpass Rossi's totals, however unlikely, that would be justification for him to be considered better than Rossi.

I think he can ride a motorcycle faster than anyone out there right now. But package everything together, experience, intelligence, race craft and overall speed, I still think he falls short of Rossi. Although I will say that in the races he started after his break, he looked every bit as composed and intelligent and fast as Rossi. He could be on the verge of transitioning from rider to racer.

My statement had nothing to do with rossi. It had to do with cs not having what it take to be the best. Could I be wrong? Sure, only time will tell. But I stand by he will never be consider the best. There is more to this sport to just being fast, and I don't see casey ever having the "it" factor to make him the best. When rossi is gone, the torch willl be passed to Lorenzo or Spies or someone else not in gp right now. But it won't be the feeble minded boy from oz.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jan 10 2010, 05:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd like a direct example of that, he was as composed ever, but I don't think that he had do anything that showed a racing intelligence.
How about keeping Rossi at bay in Phillip Island before Rossi couldn't match his pace anymore? I don't know, having the most decorated rider of all time on your backside is a high pressure situation and the old Stoner was susceptible to folding in situations like that. He didn't do anything stupid, he didn't try to pull the pin and leave him straight away, he just continued a strong pace that Rossi eventually couldn't match.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 10 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My statement had nothing to do with rossi. It had to do with cs not having what it take to be the best. Could I be wrong? Sure, only time will tell. But I stand by he will never be consider the best. There is more to this sport to just being fast, and I don't see casey ever having the "it" factor to make him the best. When rossi is gone, the torch willl be passed to Lorenzo or Spies or someone else not in gp right now. But it won't be the feeble minded boy from oz.
What do you mean it doesn't have anything to do with Rossi? You said no matter how many championships Stoner wins, he will never be the best. As it stands, the general consensus is that Rossi is the best. Just because you don't mention him by name doesn't mean he is unrelated to the topic at hand.

I like Lorenzo, but I don't think he has what it takes to beat Stoner. Especially a mature Stoner. When Rossi is gone there will be Stoner and Lorenzo and Pedrosa and potentially Spies, but based on what I have seen from Lorenzo and Pedrosa, they don't have the combination of speed and intelligence that Stoner began to show in 2009. Lorenzo seems to have similar speed, but he got off the thing four times last year. You're never going to win a championship falling off one in four races. I think Pedrosa has that intelligence but doesn't have the pace of the others, maybe it would be different if he were on a Yamaha but right now he doesn't have it week in, week out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 10 2010, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How about keeping Rossi at bay in Phillip Island before Rossi couldn't match his pace anymore? I don't know, having the most decorated rider of all time on your backside is a high pressure situation and the old Stoner was susceptible to folding in situations like that. He didn't do anything stupid, he didn't try to pull the pin and leave him straight away, he just continued a strong pace that Rossi eventually couldn't match.


What do you mean it doesn't have anything to do with Rossi? You said no matter how many championships Stoner wins, he will never be the best. As it stands, the general consensus is that Rossi is the best. Just because you don't mention him by name doesn't mean he is unrelated to the topic at hand.

I like Lorenzo, but I don't think he has what it takes to beat Stoner. Especially a mature Stoner. When Rossi is gone there will be Stoner and Lorenzo and Pedrosa and potentially Spies, but based on what I have seen from Lorenzo and Pedrosa, they don't have the combination of speed and intelligence that Stoner began to show in 2009. Lorenzo seems to have similar speed, but he got off the thing four times last year. You're never going to win a championship falling off one in four races. I think Pedrosa has that intelligence but doesn't have the pace of the others, maybe it would be different if he were on a Yamaha but right now he doesn't have it week in, week out.

There is the key right there. A mature Stoner. You see him maturing someday, I don't. Kinda like an acually lives up to the hype Hopper. He doesn't seem to learn from mistakes and likes to pass blame.

I agree with you on Pedro. But not so much with lorenzo, he seems to be the most "in tune" with all that is going on and learns from his mistakes. He pushes hard now but when/if he matures, he is going to be a "better" "smarter" than casey and pedro, time will tell on Spies.

I dont think it has anything to do with Rossi because that is an unachievable goal. Casey's career is already under the standards and achievements of rossi's. He can never take back the immature years(they aren't even over), which could be said rossi never had any. When you speak "best" about Rossi you speak of possible best of all time. When you speak "best" of stoner you speak of possible best in the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 10 2010, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies is better than Stoner in every way..yeah i said it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
How can you possibly say that? He is damn good no doubt about it but until Spies puts down the slashes in the GP win category he isn't even in the same spaceship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 10 2010, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How about keeping Rossi at bay in Phillip Island before Rossi couldn't match his pace anymore? I don't know, having the most decorated rider of all time on your backside is a high pressure situation and the old Stoner was susceptible to folding in situations like that. He didn't do anything stupid, he didn't try to pull the pin and leave him straight away, he just continued a strong pace that Rossi eventually couldn't match.I feel that falls under composure rather than intelligence.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jan 10 2010, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I feel that falls under composure rather than intelligence.
Well he was intelligent enough to keep his composure.

stoner is the man.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 10 2010, 03:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Calling him the best is a joke. Gb makes some very good reasons why. The girl is fast, but besides that he is a complete tool and knows nothing of what it takes to be a winner. He makes horrible decisions one after another after another. "The best" is a person who does not call in when .... gets tough. He does not let off track issues effect his performance on the track. Casey Stoner is not the best and no matter how many championships he wins he never will be. He is just way to stupid. He reminds me of Cole Trickle. "I just know how to go fast." And thats it.
Did somebody piss in your cornflakes????

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 10 2010, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is the key right there. A mature Stoner. You see him maturing someday, I don't. Kinda like an acually lives up to the hype Hopper. He doesn't seem to learn from mistakes and likes to pass blame.

I agree with you on Pedro. But not so much with lorenzo, he seems to be the most "in tune" with all that is going on and learns from his mistakes. He pushes hard now but when/if he matures, he is going to be a "better" "smarter" than casey and pedro, time will tell on Spies.

I dont think it has anything to do with Rossi because that is an unachievable goal. Casey's career is already under the standards and achievements of rossi's. He can never take back the immature years(they aren't even over), which could be said rossi never had any. When you speak "best" about Rossi you speak of possible best of all time. When you speak "best" of stoner you speak of possible best in the future.
How has Lorenzo learned from his mistakes? His results improved tremendously and he proved quicker than last year, but he still pitched it away four times. The same number as his rookie season. And his goal for 2009 was to be more consistent. He got faster, sure, but I don't think he rode any smarter than he did in 2008.

It's an unlikely goal, I'll concede that. But it is possible. I think Stoner is the strongest of himself, Lorenzo and Pedrosa and foresee multiple championships and race wins once Rossi leaves. It's too early to tell with Spies, like you mentioned, but based on the riders within the series today bar Rossi, I don't think there is anyone as strong as Stoner. I suppose that's the basic disagreement between you and I on the subject.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jan 10 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I feel that falls under composure rather than intelligence.
Fair enough. He's looked every bit as composed as Rossi in the races he started since his comeback and racing intelligence wasn't entirely necessary considering his unmatched pace in his two wins and his decision to settle for a comfortable second when Lorenzo's pace in Estoril was too quick.

I do believe that Tardozi was referring to Stoner as the best RIDER in MotoGP. It seems some of you place higher value on PERSONALITY and therefore come to some sort of fancifully conclusion that because Stoner does not have the flamboyant personality of the euro's he is not as good a rider. This is probably where the fans and the people on the inside differ. An insider like Tardozi probably doesn't give a .... about flamboyance he only cares about how fast you can ride a motorcycle and how many races you can win for him. On this note Stoner is clearly on par with Rossi because since Stoner has been racing in MotoGP (besides his rookie year on a low grade satelite bike) he has matched Rossi for wins and has one championship to Rossi's 2. If you take into consideration Rossi's vast experience he has to draw on in comparison to Stoner's then it would not be rediculous to say that in the absence of Rossi like experience to match someone like Rossi you must be drawing on some other component to be successful. Perhaps this is what Tardozi is commenting on - Stoner's undeniable talent and skill at riding a motorcycle faster than any other human being on Earth.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jan 10 2010, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I feel that falls under composure rather than intelligence.

I feel this statement falls under hair-splitting sophistry.
But WTF - this time of year this is what passes for debate.