Stoner's main skill?

J4rn0 · Apr 1, 2011

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]Both Dovi and Rossi are acknowledging that throttle control is an area where Stoner is better than them... This is the most interesting bit of interview in a long time. [/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]I find that these are really good insights on Stoner's style: the finest throttle control combined with a remarkable use of the rear brake. Nothing unheard of, but it is interesting listening to his rivals acknowledging it.

From GpOne:

Dovi was impressed with Stoner's throttle control when looking at the Honda telemetry. Has Rossi compared his Ducati data with Stoner's?

Rossi: "Casey is very good at opening the throttle and straightening up the bike, but I understood this without looking at the telemetry. This is something that, especially with the spec tires which give less performance, is important for going fast. It's a trick, but it's a difficult one that Casey knows how to do pretty well. It's also important because riding like that puts the bike in less trouble, so we may need to learn it..." [/font]

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[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"][/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]And Capirossi:[/font]

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[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]Our season will be an uphill battle – admitted Loris Capirossi – the bike will improve for sure, because it has a lot of potential. We need more time, but the GP11 is more competitive than we have seen thus far. Looking at Stoner's telemetry with the Ducati, you can understand that he rides it very well, but it's also true that his style cannot be replicated; he really uses the rear brake a lot, and he's applying a lot of pressure on it in situations where it's difficult to do so. In situations where I'm not able to do the same. On the contrary, he is very smooth on the front brake, using constant pressure with it."

So maybe Melandri was right to say that only Stoner could ride the Ducati?

“No, Melandri made a mistake because he got frustrated and stopped trying."

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[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"] Full Rossi interview:[/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]http://www.gpone.com...di-losailq.html[/font]

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[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]Dovi and Capi interview:[/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]http://www.gpone.com...non-piegaq.html[/font]

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heyhuub · Apr 1, 2011

There was an interview about 2 weeks ago with Stoner, don't know where it was.

In it he compared Pedrosa and Hayden to himself. Dani had perfect smooth throttle control to get the bike out of a corner without any fuss. Nicky was very good at spinning up the rear and sliding but had little throttle control when doing that.

Stoner himself said he has pretty much the perfect in between, spinning up the rear all the while keeping perfect throttle control. With this he can blast a bike out of the corner like Pedrosa, but unlike Pedrosa he can do it with a spinning tyre for better control in most situations.

I remember something like this.

BarryMachine · Apr 1, 2011

J4rn0 said:
straightening up the bike, but I understood this without looking at the telemetry. This is something that, especially with the spec tires which give less performance, is important for going fast. It's a trick, but it's a difficult one that Casey knows how to do pretty well. It's also important because riding like that puts the bike in less trouble, so we may need to learn it..

This is the bit I still think folk are not getting, or perhaps trivializing too much. I think it is the bit he picked up from his dirt days.

I also don't think Rossi is interpreting it correctly yet, because its no just to get more grip, but to actually lose grip when needed. Essentially the throttle is used gently once traction is broken and the lean angle of the bike adjusted ( along with body placement ) to balance the grip. But I'm not going there again cos I don't think it can be taught in words

Nice to see Rossi is on the case though. As I've said before though its something kids learn here in Aust. so lets hope Rossi is not too old to learn.

dwoodhouse · Apr 1, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Nice to see Rossi is on the case though. As I've said before though its something kids learn here in Aust. so lets hope Rossi is not too old to learn.

Why that's quite generous of you Barry.

BarryMachine · Apr 1, 2011

woody996 said:
Why that's quite generous of you Barry.

Not really ..... it merely fits with my theory on Rossi and what he needs to ride the Duc.

J4rn0 · Apr 1, 2011

BarryMachine said:
This is the bit I still think folk are not getting, or perhaps trivializing too much. I think it is the bit he picked up from his dirt days.

I also don't think Rossi is interpreting it correctly yet, because its no just to get more grip, but to actually lose grip when needed. Essentially the throttle is used gently once traction is broken and the lean angle of the bike adjusted ( along with body placement ) to balance the grip. But I'm not going there again cos I don't think it can be taught in words

Nice to see Rossi is on the case though. As I've said before though its something kids learn here in Aust. so lets hope Rossi is not too old to learn.

Well, we are not talking about the basics here, those have surely been mastered by riders like Dovi and Vale, but adapting those dirt track tricks to MotoGP at grand prix speeds, on tarmac, with those highly evolved tires, is a completely different story. What Stoner does is not trivial at all, and I doubt that there are many Aussie kids (or adult riders) who could replicate it

BarryMachine · Apr 1, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Well, we are not talking about the basics here, those have surely been mastered by riders like Dovi and Vale, but adapting those dirt track tricks to MotoGP at grand prix speeds, on tarmac, with those highly evolved tires, is a completely different story. What Stoner does is not trivial at all, and I doubt that there are many Aussie kids (or adult riders) who could replicate it

Certainly not at Stoners skill level but, I think you are wrong about the technique, many a little tacker does it, especially a kid who won 41 titles.

And to assume that it is not a skill transportable to tarmac is somewhat naive.

It is certainly a skill I have not observed in Rossi. I have even said before he seems to ride corners like he is on railway tracks.

I also think it is a lot to do with what folk refer to as Stoner wrestling with the bike. And some of it is likely deliberate. This you never see Rossi do, he is a "don't sneeze whilst cornering type"

J4rn0 · Apr 1, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Certainly not at Stoners skill level but, I think you are wrong about the technique, many a little tacker does it, especially a kid who won 41 titles.

And to assume that it is not a skill transportable to tarmac is somewhat naive.

It is certainly a skill I have not observed in Rossi. I have even said before he seems to ride corners like he is on railway tracks.

I also think it is a lot to do with what folk refer to as Stoner wrestling with the bike. And some of it is likely deliberate. This you never see Rossi do, he is a "don't sneeze whilst cornering type"

Certainly Rossi skills (or Lorenzo's, for that matter) are different from Stoner's but make no mistake, they can be as effective. The European style needs a well balanced bike, that's all. You already see that Stoner's "tricks" give him less of an advantage on his teammates on the Honda, compared to what we used to see at Ducati. This observation makes me think that on a Yamaha, the best balanced bike of them all, probably the advantages of his peculiar style would be the least.

This said, I always loved his way of riding and never believed it was based on the electronics. His riding has always been special, and all those who have eyes have seen it from the beginning. We'll see how he'll further evolve on the Honda, he may even bring it to a totally new level -- he's still young. Who knows. But seeing him 'tame' the Ducati, well, that was something unique and it's a pity we are not going to see that any more.

cliche guevara · Apr 1, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Certainly Rossi skills (or Lorenzo's, for that matter) are different from Stoner's but make no mistake, they can be as effective. The European style needs a well balanced bike, that's all. You already see that Stoner's "tricks" give him less of an advantage on his teammates on the Honda, compared to what we used to see at Ducati. This observation makes me think that on a Yamaha, the best balanced bike of them all, probably the advantages of his peculiar style would be the least.

This said, I always loved his way of riding and never believed it was based on the electronics. His riding has always been special, and all those who have eyes have seen it from the beginning. We'll see how he'll further evolve on the Honda, he may even bring it to a totally new level -- he's still young. Who knows. But seeing him 'tame' the Ducati, well, that was something unique and it's a pity we are not going to see that any more.

couldn't agree more .

stoner certainly can make the most out of a inferior machine but it would be a bit too much to assume that on equally "good" bikes lorenzo and rossi wouldn't be in his league because of only one of the many criteria that make a rider fast

i was always hoping stoner and rossi would switch bikes with each other but the hondas good enough to finally see stoner on a well sorted bike.

stoner has proven that he can make the most of a bad bike that at least had good top end power.lets see how much he benefits from having a good chassis now too

BHarvey · Apr 1, 2011

This may be why Stoner prefers a more responsive engine character and less TC than others, so he can balance an unbalanced bike.

michaelm · Apr 1, 2011

heyhuub said:
There was an interview about 2 weeks ago with Stoner, don't know where it was.

In it he compared Pedrosa and Hayden to himself. Dani had perfect smooth throttle control to get the bike out of a corner without any fuss. Nicky was very good at spinning up the rear and sliding but had little throttle control when doing that.

Stoner himself said he has pretty much the perfect in between, spinning up the rear all the while keeping perfect throttle control. With this he can blast a bike out of the corner like Pedrosa, but unlike Pedrosa he can do it with a spinning tyre for better control in most situations.

I remember something like this.

It was posted on here. From memory he said he could ride both ways as circumstances demanded rather than saying he could do both simultaneously.

michaelm · Apr 1, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Certainly Rossi skills (or Lorenzo's, for that matter) are different from Stoner's but make no mistake, they can be as effective. The European style needs a well balanced bike, that's all. You already see that Stoner's "tricks" give him less of an advantage on his teammates on the Honda, compared to what we used to see at Ducati. This observation makes me think that on a Yamaha, the best balanced bike of them all, probably the advantages of his peculiar style would be the least.

This said, I always loved his way of riding and never believed it was based on the electronics. His riding has always been special, and all those who have eyes have seen it from the beginning. We'll see how he'll further evolve on the Honda, he may even bring it to a totally new level -- he's still young. Who knows. But seeing him 'tame' the Ducati, well, that was something unique and it's a pity we are not going to see that any more.

I thought your comparison to hailwood (with rather less titles of course) was a good one. I am also rather hoping he is not showing everything he has got on the honda, but based on his history this is an optimistic view

.

Anders · Apr 1, 2011

Stoner seems to use the same style on the Honda as he did on the Ducati ,picking it up out of corners,being beside the bike more on acceleration.Good.It's fun to watch.I thought he would change that but apparently not needed.

To get more grip,using bigger part of the tire.

The part about the heavy use of rear brake,didn't Capirossi speak about that at the Valencia test after the 2006 season if i remember correctly?

Jeez,I'm a nerd!! I just thought about what an outsider (normal person) would think about that.I actually remember an interview from 2006 about riding tecnique!!

Jumkie · Apr 1, 2011

As our UK friends say... Bullocks. The only throttle control Casey has is turning up the dial on his TC. I saw it clearly from the TV.

(In case you're wondering, yes, I paid for the High Rez HD package).

sli-woody · Apr 1, 2011

"The only throttle control Casey has is turning up the dial on his TC"

Thats why he fought his way thro the British club levels of racing to be where he is.....

He is a top rider.

He has his faults, but dont dismiss his talents. Everyone has TC.

Jumkie · Apr 1, 2011

sli-woody said:
"The only throttle control Casey has is turning up the dial on his TC"

Thats why he fought his way thro the British club levels of racing to be where he is.....

He is a top rider.

He has his faults, but dont dismiss his talents. Everyone has TC.

Stick around, you will eventually see the humor in my post you replied to friend.

lad · Apr 1, 2011

Jumkie said:
As our UK friends say... Bullocks. The only throttle control Casey has is turning up the dial on his TC. I saw it clearly from the TV.

(In case you're wondering, yes, I paid for the High Rez HD package).

I saw it too on the HD. He has the throttle nailed wide open, even upon entry and right through the turns. The Honda TC and the rest of the package is so superior to the other makes (especially the Duc) it's a joke. Seeing Stoner just nail it out of the pits and then close the throttle six laps later is certainly enlightening!

dwoodhouse · Apr 1, 2011

Talk about unfair advantages. I can't believe that ducati let stoner take his super duper TC software to Honda and left old mr Rossi with nothing.

Talpa · Apr 1, 2011

woody996 said:
Talk about unfair advantages. I can't believe that ducati let stoner take his super duper TC software to Honda and left old mr Rossi with nothing.

I hope his main skill is boning his gorgeous wife! Cause he sure is missing out on plenty with that ring on......

BarryMachine · Apr 1, 2011

Talpa said:
I hope his main skill is boning his gorgeous wife! Cause he sure is missing out on plenty with that ring on......

Comeon Talpa ...... everyone is posting some pretty good tongue in cheek stuff here but pretty on topic ........ and you come out with some crap about his missus

Resubmit fella .......

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