Stoner threatens to leave MotoGP over rules
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Thanx for the tip? Actually the reverse is also true. Anyway, i was laughing simply because it sounded funny. And because it reminded me of when Stoner said something in English (at Silvertone), to an English reporter, who wrote something down which may or may not have accurately reflected his words (but by most accounts was a straight quote). That article was then read by English speakers who lived in the US & other English speaking countries, and translated/interpreted - rather badly, as most things on Powerslide are - into English. At which point we debated in English what Stoner said in English and what he actually 'meant'. Though his words in English were pretty clear.
(insert English humor here)
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Thanx for the tip? Actually the reverse is also true. Anyway, i was laughing simply because it sounded funny. And because it reminded me of when Stoner said something in English (at Silvertone), to an English reporter, who wrote something down which may or may not have accurately reflected his words (but by most accounts was a straight quote). That article was then read by English speakers who lived in the US & other English speaking countries, and translated/interpreted - rather badly, as most things on Powerslide are - into English. At which point we debated in English what Stoner said in English and what he actually 'meant'. Though his words in English were pretty clear.
(insert English humor here)
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Thanx for the tip? Actually the reverse is also true. Anyway, i was laughing simply because it sounded funny. And because it reminded me of when Stoner said something in English (at Silvertone), to an English reporter, who wrote something down which may or may not have accurately reflected his words (but by most accounts was a straight quote). That article was then read by English speakers who lived in the US & other English speaking countries, and translated/interpreted - rather badly, as most things on Powerslide are - into English. At which point we debated in English what Stoner said in English and what he actually 'meant'. Though his words in English were pretty clear.
(insert English humor here)
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what a ....... I am
All you had to say, thanks for the clarification.
In all seriousness I wish you would post more on Hayden. Have you forgotten about your boy lately? How do you reckon he will go next year with 1000cc and an alloy frame? I reckon if he hangs around until 2013, once Rossi clears off Hayden will get some updates and be in prime position
(to be taken out again by Pedro with one race to go, or maybe Bautista in the last race. At least with the new frame he will be running fast enough during practice to escape Stoner's wrath)
Yes another off topic diversion.
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Me too, please keep posting, I missed the earlier stuff. What would Rossi be refering to? He would be the one guy I would nominate sitting in on the secret meetings. But I think he would only say in public the bike has a rev limiter, to protect the engine, not actually rev limited. To me in 2007 there was some sort of Japanese agreement to slow down. The early speed difference to Ducati was too much to be discounted without further question.
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I cannot fathom a scenario that has Hayden on factory machinery absent Rossi. If Nicky is wearing red in 2013, it will be aboard the factory 1199 in SBK. That will be Ducati's first year back with a full factory squad in SBK and I suspect they'll be looking for a big name rider to launch that effort.
Otherwise, I suspect Nicky will clutch on to GP with all of his effort and end up on a reasonable CRT bike/team for at maximum, 2 additional seasons.
Who will have Rossi in 2013? Honda? No. Yamaha? No. Ducati? Certainly! Suzuki will still be absent. I think Rossi returns to Ducati in 2013 and Nicky is unfortunately shown the door.
Don't worry about character assassination (not by you) good buddy, all you have to do is reread this thread and you'll find Mental, Mr. Squigz, and Birds, etc., who once counted me a Stoner defender ally, saying now what a ....... I am for daring to point out Stoner is the best rider on the planet with a mild public speaking problem.
Anyway, let us break bread together, eh Mike.Well now, it sounds to me you are doing what Mental did, that is, interpreting motives based on your personal view of a rider. You say "this is rather different" but its exactly the same! Bargain has nothing to do with it (your motive interpretation), but rather, a rider not wanting to be part of a competition that supposedly doesn't interest them.
Notice the similarities in the next sentences with only the rider names changed:
Rossi said he wasn't interested in racing in a sport he felt wasn't going to offer him what he perceived as top equipment. So he threatened to rather retire.
Stoner said he wasn't interested in racing in a sport he felt wasn't going to offer him what he perceived as top equipment. So he threatened to rather retire.
The the same .... for both, despite you now, and others before you, trying to paint it as something "different". Who is to say either of their motives are pure and right? That's your argument right, motives? You and others here are now going to Stoner's defense that he has the God given right to call it quits when ever he want. Ok, no argument. But your defense is Stoner's motives are pure and Rossi's motives were un-pure because it was a bargain. But as you see above, its just a matter of not being interested (according to either rider) in racing on what either perceived as top equipment. Its the same ....! And either, by your logic and others defending Stoner's comments, had the right to retire based on their logic. At the time I called ........ on Rossi, and today I'm calling ........ on Stoner. And more to the point, I'm calling ........ on those using the double standard.
I'll add, they are empty threats, as I predict Stoner will take the field at Qatar. After all, there will be CRTs running around on the same grid, and at that point he [Stoner] WILL be PART of it. At which point, his threads will ring very hollow (not that some Stoner fans will point it out). If we are to believe that Stoner "is a straight talker" and "means what he says" then he's leave rather than making empty threats. So far he is starting to accumulate examples that are exactly opposite of what we are to believe about the determination of his pronouncements, eh.
My point was that I personally have not accused rossi of any malfeasance in acquiring bridgestone tyres, or anything else other than the jerez torpedo, probably an error of judgement, and the gibernau torpedo, probably not an error of judgement. I was one of the few who supported roger in the endless tyre war threads in arguing that rossi was entitled to go after the best tyre, so I don't see how I am applying any double standard to stoner, particularly since I have also never contended that rossi threatened to retire if he did not obtain the bridgestones. I am not responsible for what other stoner fans say about rossi, or what they say about stoner for that matter.
If you want to accuse stoner of anything at present it is of backing his current employer's stand, which I agree may not be in the longterm interests of motogp.I am also sure he will turn up at qatar 2012, particularly as he will be riding a prototype hrc 1000 bike. The next year would be the test if it is a purely crt formula, although he has left himself wriggle room on this occasion; the headline rather than stoner himself said he threatened to quit, and I have never seen anything from stoner which indicates that he considers that the sport won't continue without him. My attitude to "prototype" racing was pretty similar to his, and to povol's, until quite recently, and has only changed because it now seems financially unsustainable.
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Apparently Rossi is off playing in rally cars while the unlimited testing Ducati is being tested by Checa? Seems like a lack of urgency. I think Rossi has given the middle finger to Ducati already. They want him testing the bike to get some return on their investment, he is only interested in one last title. So 2013 I would bet Rossi to Yamaha, not Honda too many waiting in the wings (Bradl and Marquez).
No one wants Ducati. They are stuck with Hayden. Stuck with? Rossi was competitive enough to beat Lorenzo at the end of 2010. Hayden has been competitive with Rossi, so would Hayden be able to beat Lorenzo on a Yamaha. I would speculate yes, he would and maybe would be going better than Spies.
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Those women are huge! (not fat)
Rossi back at Yamaha huh? Who knows. I think this picture represents Nicky taking a good look at his future. I'm not even so sure I think that's a bad thing. If this turns out to be a quality machine, I'd love to see NH put a WSBK title on the mantle while he's still young enough to pull it off.
Rossi back at Yamaha huh? Who knows. I think this picture represents Nicky taking a good look at his future. I'm not even so sure I think that's a bad thing. If this turns out to be a quality machine, I'd love to see NH put a WSBK title on the mantle while he's still young enough to pull it off.
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My bet is you would not put that point to Povol.. Of course not, after all he blindly fights stoners corner even tyhough he is a Hayden fan
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Havent forgot dude. I had a mildly amusing run in with him last week. I just been lazy to upload pic from fone to computer to post. I promise i'll get to it tomorrow.
About 1000s, im not gonna speculate much beyond he will perform about as good as the Goat. Which if u think about it, thats pretty awesome.
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My bet is you would not put that point to Povol.. Of course not, after all he blindly fights stoners corner even tyhough he is a Hayden fan
No of course not Povol is a pro prototype legend who I always agree with blindly and he won the bet on CRT, its time for Jumkie to pay up, maybe even double pay up since they are also slower than moto2!!
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You're WAY ahead of yourself there! They will not be slower than Moto2 with continued development. I suspect that on a track which showcases horsepower, they'll be quite a bit faster than M2 bikes. Settle down a bit, the speed is coming! We're not going to see 1000cc GP numbers but I think we'll see something just a bit north of SBK numbers from these guys. Especially once Edwards and RdP are healthy and the bikes are sorted.
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Havent forgot dude. I had a mildly amusing run in with him last week. I just been lazy to upload pic from fone to computer to post. I promise i'll get to it tomorrow.
About 1000s, im not gonna speculate much beyond than to say he will perform about as good as the Goat. Which if u think about, thats pretty awesome.
At the Ducati 1199 unveiling?
Would you rather Hayden second fiddle motogp or top dog SBK? To me SBK would gain him nothing, just a re-run of Checa amoung many others. I predict one win for Hayden next year on the GP12 version 5.
Its true Levi they always pick the leggy girls and its hilarious seeing shorty riders gazing up. Dont fight me with logic, has nothing to do with it, CRT is slower, Povol won, Jumkie pay up.
(Yes it was pretty awesome from Hayden this year, never dropped his head, without the latest updates, cudos to him, stay in motogp)
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Yes, but it didnt stop u good friend, from making the point that in Rossi's case it was a "bargin" tactic. Once u did that, u included urself. So yes, ur included based on ur previous post. (or would u like to detract?)
Yes, he will aboard a "prototype" as u and Pov define it (which ive argued, is simply a creation based on arbitrary rules, would u like to argue this point with me, Pov failed spectacularly). HOWEVER, the series will have CRTs in 2012, and when Stoner takes the field, he will IN FACT be part of that. Unless he leaves. So it matters not that he be on a "prototype" bike as he and u and Pov see it. Its the series that has moved on, the SERIES he says he would walk away from.
About CRTs verses "prototype", see my takes on the issue in other threads. 500s were no less or more "prototype" than 990s, than 800s, than CRTs. Pov, like Casey suggested they'd walk away from the next formula change stating it was because they would no longer be "prototype" racing. What made the formula such in their eyes? Because there was a fuel limit? Because there was an engine limit? Because there was a displacement change? This is an argument that if u argue LOGICALLY you will not be able to hold the position. 500s, 990s, 800s, all creations of rules. Man made rules. Arbitrary rules, my fine friend.
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the seasons not even started ! Do you have a crystal ball ? Im going to start calling you Mystic Megg
I had to dumb ... nerd Google that. Yes its fine to refer to me as Sir Mystic Megg. But no more predictions until both you and Jumkie pay up. Crystal balls dont come cheap.
I could write a book of conjecture and theory on these questions.
Long story short, the pattern I'm looking for is horsepower limitation (I didn't create the pattern). Every major car racing series has them.
F1- displacement limit, bore limit, rev limit
LMP1/2 - displacement, air restriction
NASCAR - spec engine, air restriction
GT1/2/3 - air restriction, performance balancing (different rules for each car)
DTM - displacement, air restriction
IndyCar - spec engine, rev limit, boost limit (2012)
WTCC - capacity, rev limits
WRC - capacity, air restriction, boost restriction
In motorcycling, the FIM is much less transparent. We know Moto2 and Moto3 are horsepower capped with rev limits. BSB will be horsepower capped with rev limits (though they won't reveal the actual rev ceiling). Only God knows how many horsepower limits are in AMA now that DMG (NASCAR, basically) owns it. WSBK was horsepower capped with air-restrictors, but those rules were abandoned in 2004 and replaced with a rulebook that supposedly tolerates any power output. In reality, we have no idea what the FIM homologation papers say for SBK racing. Those papers supersede the rulebook. Interestingly, the WSBK rulebook does restrict the Ducati 1198R, the least powerful bike on the grid.
MotoGP is legitimately the last major racing series on the planet earth that doesn't have a horsepower restriction. Instead, MotoGp is fuel limited. If MotoGP was rev limited to 19,000rpm it wouldn't have affected the horsepower during the race b/c the 21L rule is more intrusive. If the 19,000rpm rev limit was introduced via private contract before 2010 (before the strict engine life rules), it would only have stopped the manufacturers from wasting money on 21,000rpm-qualifying-grenades. See? A 19,000rpm rev limit isn't so insane, is it? The manufacturers probably would have wanted it, imo. Dorna probably would have wanted the rev limit, as well, b/c it cuts costs and improves safety. In 2011, the fuel efficiency advanced so rapidly that the 19,000rpm limit (if it exists) may come into play at some circuits, but it certainly didn't slow Honda/Stoner much. The sport is still fuel-limited for all intents and purposes. Rossi appeared to have said that the 19,000rpm rev limit is real. He rides MotoGP bikes, and he was employed by the manufacturer who allegedly proposed the rev limit. I'm inclined to believe him.
Motorcycle racing is not car racing, but the ICE physics are the same, and motorcycle engine builders studied the same material as the car engine builders. Many of engine builders construct both moto and car engines. Furthermore, sanctioning bodies have attempted to control horsepower since the first formulas were written. Displacement was once regarded as a horsepower cap of sorts, but the sanctioning bodies had no idea how high the engines could actually rev (or how much it would cost). Bore/stroke limits, air-restriction, and rev limits are all effective for regulating horsepower and reducing the rev ceiling. Lower rev-ceiling = lower cost (or so the theory goes).
Regarding the Duc in 2008, don't look at the revs, look at the tires. MotoGP had several rounds of emergency tire meetings. Michelin and Bridgestone come from F1 where they had a controlled-tire war. Imo, the wrote some rules to keep the tire war going without getting someone killed. I think the rules may only have governed the front tire which controls corner entry. Rossi/Burgess out-developed Stoner/Preziosi in 2008 and beyond. Bridgestone out developed Michelin. When Michelin left, Bridgestone was control supplier. When Stoner left, Ducati hired Rossi/Burgess to help them do what they haven't been able to do since 2008--engineer a bike to work with the tires. Yikes.
Not sure if you heard, but Dorna hired the former director of Bridgestone racing as a consultant. I'm optimistic Dorna are working on a set of rules to bring the tire war back. Imo, the first set of rules (2008) failed b/c Bridgestone developed the front tire with squishy edges. If the front tires were profile-controlled (like the WSBK tire war rules), a tire with a squishy edge would have made it impossible to regulate the size of the contact patch. Michelin bailed b/c they didn't want to bring F1 optimum-contact-patch technology to GP. They probably didn't have stuff as good as Bstone, either.
