Stoner threatens to leave MotoGP over rules

ROCKGOD01 said:

In relation to some of the things I have read here regarding cost/ expenses, etc. One thing that I know I will catch all kinds of hell for but...whatever.. Bring back tobacco money, not just Marlboro with no advertising markings anywhere, but genuine advertising as they used to be able to do. We are all adults here, I know I can choose what I do with my life and don't need some ..... in office telling me what I can and can't do. The debate about kids is pretty much moot, kids don't spend the money on GP and it just isn't the demographic at all. Hey most of us here grew up just fine with watching Schwantz and his Lucky Strike bike, or Lawson, and really any and all of the other tobacco sponsored bikes. For one, that in no way made me want to smoke a cig. I don't smoke today as it is so by them saying it is so influential well, it just isn't.

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I think like this too. But governments have banned tobacco advertising. So no use being a sponsor, can't run the name on the bike. Same weak governments don't actually ban tobacco, just say it's bad then apply ridiculous tax to grab the cash.

birdman said:

I think like this too. But governments have banned tobacco advertising. So no use being a sponsor, can't run the name on the bike. Same weak governments don't actually ban tobacco, just say it's bad then apply ridiculous tax to grab the cash.

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They don't ban tobacco outright because they are afraid of the tobacco lobby. This is a good thing, however, as banning tobacco would probably work out as well as the eighteenth amendment did.

Kropotkin said:

They don't ban tobacco outright because they are afraid of the tobacco lobby. This is a good thing, however, as banning tobacco would probably work out as well as the eighteenth amendment did.

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18th amendment?????

Kropotkin said:

There is no rev limit in MotoGP. Ducati would never have agreed to it, and would have violated it, as the desmo system allows them to disregard any rev limit. There are certain practical limits, which are between 19 and 20K, because that's where the optimum borestroke point is for a powerful engine that still has some kind of torque. It took a lot of browbeating, threats and intimidation to get the MSMA to agree to the 81mm bore, there is no way they would agree a rev limit among themselves.





Unless of course the Illuminati made them do it.

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I don't believe everything is a pattern. I believe that business people and shareholders believe or expect that everything is a left-brained modelling exercise or a pattern. Business executives and engineers run every major motorsports series on earth, and they've patterned and cloned everything they make. I'm not creating a pattern, I'm looking for a pattern or a model that someone else has created. I've already read the things you've read, and I've taken the derivative.



If intelligent people run things, and intelligent people create patterns, does the man-made world have patterns? Five minutes in business school will teach you the answer to that question. I'm not really interested in figuring out whether patterns should or shouldn't exist. They do exist; therefore, I'd like to use them to figure out what people will do next. I can respond accordingly. Game theory.



Rossi said a rev limit exists. He rides MotoGP bikes and he worked for the manufacturer who was allegedly behind the push for a 19,000rpm rev limit in 2008. It's his credibility on the line. A rev limit fits the general pattern of engineering, cost cutting, and racing governance. I didn't make the pattern.



I'm not obsessed with rev limits. I'm obsessed with the people who are obsessed with rev limits.

Not sure why we are having a rev limit conversation...again. I thought it had all but been extinguished a few years ago when Ducati was reving to astronomical figures, and for a momement there was talk on the table to cap revs. I remember it was so obvious it was just an attempt by the powers that be to slow Duc down. If anybody cares to look, there was a thread to this topic. Which ended with the talk of proposal dying its deserving death. No rev limit. Period.

Its so much easier being dumb. I dont have to try to understand what you guys are talking about

I can just enjoy watching all the shiny bikes go vroom vroom really fast around the track

Who the hell limits revs? I want to see that ish scream over 20k.............. RPM's for the Muther effin win !

mylexicon said:

I think 600s might actually be cheaper if they kept the 21L rule. The fuel restrictions would be moot, and the engines wouldn't rev much higher than the 800s.

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My favourite capacity is still 750cc from way back. Honda RC30 oh yeah. Wish motogp went to 750 and stayed there.

mylexicon said:

I don't believe everything is a pattern. I believe that business people and shareholders believe or expect that everything is a left-brained modelling exercise or a pattern. Business executives and engineers run every major motorsports series on earth, and they've patterned and cloned everything they make. I'm not creating a pattern, I'm looking for a pattern or a model that someone else has created. I've already read the things you've read, and I've taken the derivative.



If intelligent people run things, and intelligent people create patterns, does the man-made world have patterns? Five minutes in business school will teach you the answer to that question. I'm not really interested in figuring out whether patterns should or shouldn't exist. They do exist; therefore, I'd like to use them to figure out what people will do next. I can respond accordingly. Game theory.



Rossi said a rev limit exists. He rides MotoGP bikes and he worked for the manufacturer who was allegedly behind the push for a 19,000rpm rev limit in 2008. It's his credibility on the line. A rev limit fits the general pattern of engineering, cost cutting, and racing governance. I didn't make the pattern.



I'm not obsessed with rev limits. I'm obsessed with the people who are obsessed with rev limits.

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Lex, i had stopped responding to u after u said u were unmoved by a video of a grown ... man with a weapon beating the .... out of a little girl. But this above posts i just had to quote. U are definately a weird dude.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Its so much easier being dumb. I dont have to try to understand what you guys are talking about

I can just enjoy watching all the shiny bikes go vroom vroom really fast around the track

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Bro, dont let the long posts fool u. There aint too many smart people here. Lots a dumb ... nerds mainly with access to Google.

Jumkie said:

Bro, dont let the long posts fool u. There aint too many smart people here. Lots a dumb ... nerds mainly with access to Google.

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Speaking from experience I see.



You really can't blame Stoner for voicing his opinion albeit, over the top as far as saying he's willing to quit the sport altogether. I wouldn't want to race against people who are inexperience but are able to afford a ride in the 'premier' class of motor bike racing just because daddy is able to afford it or because sponsors want to put their name out there. Reason why? Well...... what if in practice or qualifying they impede you and ruin your lap time, or worse cause injury to you because of their lack of experience, and if not that, because of the lack of performance in their CRT machine. Even in practice runs, these CRT bikes have proven so far that they are well down below on the timesheets, even with experienced riders. Meaning what if in a race while battling up front with the factory and satellite teams, these CRT riders are being lapped and could possibly change the outcome of a race? Stoner has a valid point, as I'm sure most factory and satellite riders feels the same way. This is the top of the food chain prototype racing, it should be that way. Dorna fucced up with cost measures and stupid silly rule changes every year and now trying to cover their ....

record skipped.

Jumkie said:

Lex, i had stopped responding to u after u said u were unmoved by a video of a grown ... man with a weapon beating the .... out of a little girl. But this above posts i just had to quote. U are definately a weird dude.

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I'm not worried about making roll call for the lynch mob. I'm interested in understanding why the vid is released 7 years after-the-fact, and how the judicial system can remedy the situation.



I'm not interested in whether or not Krop thinks I'm sane. I'm concerned with understanding the officials and executives who use engineering models and business models to govern their sports.



Rossi said the sport is rev limited. Part of the MSMA was pushing for rev limits in 2008. Next year, Ezpeleta is pushing for rev limits. Moto2 is rev limited. Moto3 is rev limited. BSB is rev limited. I'm a weirdo who is obsessed with rev limits? Surely, you jest.

Jumkie said:

Well buddy, i call ........ on both counts (with all due respect of course). The doomsdayers to the 800 formula said performance would be lost from 990s to 800s, stating it was just a kneejerk reaction to Katos death. Yet performance increased. Im not sure what "candid & blunt" comments of Stoner u are referring to. Perhaps his "candid & blunt" comments concerning Motegi?

On count 2, its nice & refreshing that at least we can speak from a point that he suggested early retirement as a result of proposed changes, as oppose to Mental & the gang who seem to downplay and deny this part to the point of debating its very existence.



It is true, he can retired whenever he feels like it. Tomorrow would be an equally valid time as last week or next week. I find the double standard a dastard point from peeps that are not applying the same standard these particular peeps applied to Rossi. It appears one rider's motives as oppose to the other were not given the benefit of the doubt. Notice they tried to say it was different, and explained away there lack of consistency and with it their credibility. I suppose threatening to leave the sport and ensuing discussion depended on the fan u were asking.

Edit: it seems this thread has become very toxic. So when u read my posts, imagine i just came back with and ice cold beer, handed it to u and said, ok, lets talk about this... Thats the tone u should read me with. I donr want u to leave in haste like my old buddy Mental who seems to be having a fit, even though it was he who drew first.

So, gulp gulp... i dont think its fair for the same peeps who raked Rossi through the coals now turn a sympathetic shoulder to Stoner for essentially the same thing. Or they both had a right to whine to the point of throwing the sport on its face or neither did. If we are to apply the same standard, then a few on this thread gotta retract all the .... they gave Rossi. It seems only fair, eh good buddy?

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I don't believe I personally have done much in the way of raking rossi through the coals, other than when he torpedoed stoner at jerez, and even not affected by high quality pinot noir I still consider that to be an egregious error.



Rossi reputedly threatened to quit if he was not given bridgestones for 2008. I have never said he did so, nor am I aware of any evidence this is true, but if so this is rather different, imo, than saying that if motogp becomes a non-prototype formula rather than the pinnacle of bike racing stoner has apparently always aspired to then he may lose interest. Again imo, he is not attempting to bargain.

cliché guevara said:

yes but valve springs don't rev past a maximum of 16.500rpm

the problem with increasing revs is more friction and thus higher fuel consumption. trust me on this, somewhere i've got an interview with furusawa in a german motorcycle magazine and in that interview he states explicitly that its the fuel limit why it doesn't make sense to look for even more revs.



i too believe that there may be a sort of gentlemens agreement as you've said, but if there was an understanding to not rev past 19k then it would have nothing to do with valve springs



edit: what about 600s?i'm curious to know why you think 600s would be cheaper (thanks for the tech talk ,really appreciate it

so awesome to have a discussion on a motogp forum

)

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The R6 revs to 17500rpm and thats a road bike !

michaelm said:

Rossi reputedly threatened to quit if he as not given bridgestones for 2008. I have never said he did so, nor am I aware of any evidence this is true, but if so this is rather different, imo, than saying that if motogp becomes a non-prototype formula rather than the pinnacle of bike racing stoner has apparently always aspired to then he may lose interest. Again imo, he is not attempting to bargain.



You are correct I am considering the mental anarchist line for different reasons. If my character is to be assassinated (not by you) for having a contrary opinion, then I also can find alternative diversions, perhaps thereby demonstrating I am similar to the rider I support.

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Don't worry about character assassination (not by you) good buddy, all you have to do is reread this thread and you'll find Mental, Mr. Squigz, and Birds, etc., who once counted me a Stoner defender ally, saying now what a ....... I am for daring to point out Stoner is the best rider on the planet with a mild public speaking problem.



Anyway, let us break bread together, eh Mike. Well now, it sounds to me you are doing what Mental did, that is, interpreting motives based on your personal view of a rider. You say "this is rather different" but its exactly the same! Bargain has nothing to do with it (your motive interpretation), but rather, a rider not wanting to be part of a competition that supposedly doesn't interest them.



Notice the similarities in the next sentences with only the rider names changed:



Rossi said he wasn't interested in racing in a sport he felt wasn't going to offer him what he perceived as top equipment. So he threatened to rather retire.



Stoner said he wasn't interested in racing in a sport he felt wasn't going to offer him what he perceived as top equipment. So he threatened to rather retire.



The the same .... for both, despite you now, and others before you, trying to paint it as something "different". Who is to say either of their motives are pure and right? That's your argument right, motives? You and others here are now going to Stoner's defense that he has the God given right to call it quits when ever he want. Ok, no argument. But your defense is Stoner's motives are pure and Rossi's motives were un-pure because it was a bargain. But as you see above, its just a matter of not being interested (according to either rider) in racing on what either perceived as top equipment. Its the same ....! And either, by your logic and others defending Stoner's comments, had the right to retire based on their logic. At the time I called ........ on Rossi, and today I'm calling ........ on Stoner. And more to the point, I'm calling ........ on those using the double standard.



I'll add, they are empty threats, as I predict Stoner will take the field at Qatar. After all, there will be CRTs running around on the same grid, and at that point he [Stoner] WILL be PART of it. At which point, his threads will ring very hollow (not that some Stoner fans will point it out). If we are to believe that Stoner "is a straight talker" and "means what he says" then he's leave rather than making empty threats. So far he is starting to accumulate examples that are exactly opposite of what we are to believe about the determination of his pronouncements, eh.

`No one man is bigger than his sport` .....don`t know who said that but its grade A true.Stoner leaves,Vale leaves.So what,theres a whole new class waiting to burst thru on 1000cc`s .They go and others replace them.So like I said...No one man etc.

birdman said:

My favourite capacity is still 750cc from way back. Honda RC30 oh yeah. Wish motogp went to 750 and stayed there.

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My wish too bud....on cleanburn tech 2strokes.I swear this`ll come full circle one day.

mylexicon said:

Rossi said the sport is rev limited. Part of the MSMA was pushing for rev limits in 2008. Next year, Ezpeleta is pushing for rev limits. Moto2 is rev limited. Moto3 is rev limited. BSB is rev limited. I'm a weirdo who is obsessed with rev limits? Surely, you jest.

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Rossi said something in Italian, to an Italian reporter, who wrote something down which may or may not have accurately reflected his words. That article was then read by an Italian who lived in the US for a long while, and translated - rather badly, as most things on twowheelsblog are - into English.



You are obsessed with rev limits, and no rev limits existed (up until the introduction of the 81mm bore) in MotoGP.



For the record, I think you are one of the most intelligent people I have encountered on any of the motorcycling forums, and I always enjoy reading your posts. Unfortunately, you completely lose the plot when it comes to rev limits.



Honestly, it's like watching Biaggi race. You know he is one of the fastest racers on the face of the planet, then all of a sudden he does something unbelievably boneheaded. There's a cognitive dissonance at what you know Biaggi is capable of at his best and what he can occasionally do. The two just don't match.



Actually, it's more like having a conversation with someone who seems completely rational and intelligent and then starts ranting about thermite and controlled demolition...

Kropotkin said:

Rossi said something in Italian, to an Italian reporter, who wrote something down which may or may not have accurately reflected his words. That article was then read by an Italian who lived in the US for a long while, and translated - rather badly, as most things on twowheelsblog are - into English.

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