Stoner on a Yamaha instead of Honda???

Viper-7 · Apr 23, 2011

I don't know about everyone else,but I have never been a fan of Stoner going on a Honda

Do you think that it would have been better to see Stoner on a Yamaha??? Him and Jorge would have made a pretty solid team.

Honda have always been known to hold the Bike in higher regard than the rider. Do you think the Stoner-Honda relationship will last?????

J4rn0 · Apr 23, 2011

It will last, and they are going to win championships. For a rider like Stoner, Honda is a good choice because it always provides a pretty good bike without needing too much input from the rider. As Burgess said, at Honda he need not worry about the bike, but just concentrate on winning races. Honda will always be good enough for Casey. Given his capacity to ride whatever he's given at the limit, that's a marriage made in heaven.

Austin · Apr 23, 2011

Bang on, Jarno.

BarryMachine · Apr 23, 2011

Honda will allways be best for Stoner. Yamaha would have been good however I think Honda were specifically after a guy who could find the limits of their bike. They were not happy with the other top riders alone as they did not push the bike hence it was always difficult to find where to develop.

Yamaha will like this in a few years but at present they are too "euphoric" to believe they need much more........... kinda like Ducati however their euphoria was somewhat misplaced ....... ie. they took so long to realise that it was Stoner and not the bike.

Stoner is the best development tool out there bar none, and Honda knew this back in 08.

BarryMachine · Apr 23, 2011

Honda will allways be best for Stoner. Yamaha would have been good however I think Honda were specifically after a guy who could find the limits of their bike. They were not happy with the other top riders alone as they did not push the bike hence it was always difficult to find where to develop.

Yamaha will be like this in a few years but at present they are too "euphoric" to believe they need much more........... kinda like Ducati however their euphoria was somewhat misplaced ....... ie. they took so long to realise that it was Stoner and not the bike.

Stoner is the best development tool out there bar none, and Honda knew this back in 08.

Austin · Apr 23, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Stoner is the best development tool out there bar none, and Honda knew this back in 08.

BarryMachine · Apr 23, 2011

Asstin said:

Don't tell me ....... you reckon Nicky Hayden ........

how ?

bigbang · Apr 23, 2011

Viper-7 said:
Do you think that it would have been better to see Stoner on a Yamaha???

Why would Yamaha want Stoner? They have Lorenzo and Lorenzo beat GOAT Rossi. Thus now Lorenzo is.... GOAT

povol · Apr 23, 2011

Viper-7 said:
I don't know about everyone else,but I have never been a fan of Stoner going on a Honda

Do you think that it would have been better to see Stoner on a Yamaha??? Him and Jorge would have made a pretty solid team.

Honda have always been known to hold the Bike in higher regard than the rider. Do you think the Stoner-Honda relationship will last?????

Is that because you like Stoner, or dislike Honda. I have never understood the feeling of people who just flat out hate Honda. I have friends whos mantra is ".... Honda". I ask them after all Honda has done for the motorcycle world and racing in general, why do you hate them. What it boils down to is the same attitude you see from some in the game of life. They just hate wealth and power. Its always the same, Honda buys the best riders, Honda outspends everyone, Honda doesnt respect their riders, blah blah blah.Honda makes a great product, Honda likes to win, their efficiency in production forces other companies to follow suit. The next time you look at a 180hp technological wonder that you can buy for 12 grand, get down on you knees and thank Honda for what they do.

Viper-7 · Apr 23, 2011

povol said:
Is that because you like Stoner, or dislike Honda. I have never understood the feeling of people who just flat out hate Honda. I have friends whos mantra is ".... Honda". I ask them after all Honda has done for the motorcycle world and racing in general, why do you hate them. What it boils down to is the same attitude you see from some in the game of life. They just hate wealth and power. Its always the same, Honda buys the best riders, Honda outspends everyone, Honda doesnt respect their riders, blah blah blah.Honda makes a great product, Honda likes to win, their efficiency in production forces other companies to follow suit. The next time you look at a 180hp technological wonder that you can buy for 12 grand, get down on you knees and thank Honda for what they do.

Man in no way did I say I hate Honda, I have a 03 Honda 600 sitting in the Bike shed. Honda, even Rossi said have been known to concentrate more on the bike than the rider (maybe its different now).

"I hate Honda", thats quite a conclusion to reach.

J4rn0 · Apr 23, 2011

povol said:
Is that because you like Stoner, or dislike Honda. I have never understood the feeling of people who just flat out hate Honda. I have friends whos mantra is ".... Honda". I ask them after all Honda has done for the motorcycle world and racing in general, why do you hate them. What it boils down to is the same attitude you see from some in the game of life. They just hate wealth and power. Its always the same, Honda buys the best riders, Honda outspends everyone, Honda doesnt respect their riders, blah blah blah.Honda makes a great product, Honda likes to win, their efficiency in production forces other companies to follow suit. The next time you look at a 180hp technological wonder that you can buy for 12 grand, get down on you knees and thank Honda for what they do.

Look well: it's the same reason why many hate Rossi. Too much power, that some fear can be used to bend the rules...

The difference is that Honda is a corporation, not a human being.

J4rn0 · Apr 23, 2011

BarryMachine said:
.....

Stoner is the best development tool out there bar none, and Honda knew this back in 08.

If that was true, Ducati would be the best bike by now -- unless Preziosi & C. are a bunch of idiots of course.

I think it's true that Stoner can take any bike to the limit so he should logically be a great data collection tool, but it's also true that any development made on the basis of his data is likely to be be usable by him only. His style is probably just too peculiar, there is no other rider who can replicate it. It will be interesting to see what happens at Honda with the development of the new 1000cc.

BarryMachine · Apr 23, 2011

J4rn0 said:
If that was true, Ducati would be the best bike by now -- unless Preziosi & C. are a bunch of idiots of course.

I think it's true that Stoner can take any bike to the limit so he should logically be a great data collection tool, but it's also true that any development made on the basis of his data is likely to be be usable by him only. His style is probably just too peculiar, there is no other rider who can replicate it. It will be interesting to see what happens at Honda with the development of the new 1000cc.

No, Stoner knew exactly what the Ducati needed, its just that Ducati were unable to do anything about it . Much the same as we see with Rossi, only at least Stoner did a better job than Rossi has.

Much of the reason Ducati did nothing about the problems seems because they were too busy with "false airs" as to just how good there bike is/was ....... look at what they thought of Melandri

spooky · Apr 23, 2011

BarryMachine said:
No, Stoner knew exactly what the Ducati needed, its just that Ducati were unable to do anything about it. Much the same as we see with Rossi, only at least Stoner did a better job than Rossi has.

And another Stoner/Rossi bashing thread was created!

I don't think Stoner gives a .... who he rides for, as long as they provide a bike that he can consistently win on. Which Honda most certainly do!

BarryMachine · Apr 23, 2011

spooky said:
And another Stoner/Rossi bashing thread was created!

I don't think Stoner gives a .... who he rides for, as long as they provide a bike that he can consistently win on. Which Honda most certainly do!

Oh dear ....... the Oestrogen again

........ some folk say it as it is with Rossi ........ you can boohoo about it all you like ...... it won't change whats going on.

Austin · Apr 23, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Don't tell me ....... you reckon Nicky Hayden ........

how ?

Nicky isn't the best developer out there. He's not bad, but he's definitely not the best. I don't know how you could give that title to anyone other than Rossi.

As far as it being Stoner, I just don't see it. The Ducati has had similar problems during his tenure. Obviously Ducati is doing a lot for Rossi to get the GP11 to work properly, buti think if Nicky is consistently at the front by year's end, and de Puniet is making the occasional push to the leaders, then I say we have our answer. Hands down.

alex29 · Apr 23, 2011

Wasn't Yamaha initially interested in stoner back in 06 and they were talking,even J.B was keen on geting him onboard.

Talpa · Apr 23, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Look well: it's the same reason why many hate Rossi. Too much power, that some fear can be used to bend the rules...

The difference is that Honda is a corporation, not a human being.

Brilliant! I always knew Pov couldn't understand himself

michaelm · Apr 23, 2011

Austin said:
Nicky isn't the best developer out there. He's not bad, but he's definitely not the best. I don't know how you could give that title to anyone other than Rossi.

As far as it being Stoner, I just don't see it. The Ducati has had similar problems during his tenure. Obviously Ducati is doing a lot for Rossi to get the GP11 to work properly, buti think if Nicky is consistently at the front by year's end, and de Puniet is making the occasional push to the leaders, then I say we have our answer. Hands down.

Rossi has a long and proven record as a developer, and it is hard to go past him as the best developer, now or ever.

However for me the jury is out on whether stoner can or can't develop. It partly hinges on whther ducati took any notice of him; I strongly doubt he had much input into the current ducati chassis design philosophy or material. The question still exists as to whether the current ducati is developable; if it can be fixed rossi and jb will do so, but I see little evidence of success on their part thus far.

As for yamaha, I think stoner would be competitive on a yamaha but would not have the comparative advantage he appears to have on rawer/more difficult to ride bikes.

Austin · Apr 24, 2011

Badfish said:
Wasn't Yamaha initially interested in stoner back in 06 and they were talking,even J.B was keen on geting him onboard.

I believe so, may have even been '07. The rumors go something along the lines of JB wanted to work with Stoner at Yamaha once Rossi retired. Rossi didn't want Stoner in the garage. Yamaha sided with Rossi and passed on Stoner.

michaelm said:
Rossi has a long and proven record as a developer, and it is hard to go past him as the best developer, now or ever.

However for me the jury is out on whther stoner can or can't develop. It partly hinges on whther ducati took any notice of him; I strongly doubt he had much input into the current ducati chassis design philosophy or material. The question still exists as to whether the current ducati is developable; if it can be fixed rossi and jb will do so, but I see little evidence of success on their part thus far.

As for yamaha, I think stoner would be competitive on a yamaha but would not have the comparative advantage he appears to have on rawer/more difficult to ride bikes.

True, what some of my post was meant to illustrate, now realizing I only partially brought it up, is that Ducati are moving heaven and earth for Rossi. The Ducati had the same types of issues throughout Stoner's tenure, however Ducati never gave Stoner this much in mid-season development. I think if Rossi can change the Ducati, it'll be hard to argue against him being the best developer on the grid.

But I am quite interested to see what happens to Honda's development in the Stoner era compared to when Pedrosa led development from 2009 on.

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