stoner not happy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 1 2008, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Equipment is never going to be equal outside of a total spec series, but i don't think this alters a sense of equality in achievement in the world championship. A rider must take on board career management, meaning that it is their responsibility to use the circumstances to make their way to the best possible teams and equipment. Factory riders aren't drawn out of a hat, they are selected by impressing the right people, taking the right risks and achieving the right things. For this reason i don't believe a rider can be critisized for having the best equipment, as they are responsible for the positiont they find themselfes in by account of their own actions.
I agree with this and had not read your post earlier; my later post is largely made redundant by what you said.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 2 2008, 05:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner's first year on the Duc.

Rossi's 4th year on the Yamaha.

And Rossi could not set it up??

And the Yamaha/ Team is the top team out there for as long as Rossi's team was there.

Surely you can see thats a bit of an anomaly?

I would have thought that after 4 years Rossi had the best bike for Rossi ....


Its all just a silly excuse ..... riders age ..... get used to it. Not many riders last at the top as long as Rossi but one does have to look at it as a reason for the decline in performance. Surely all the anomalous excuses you spout would steer you in that direction


no i wasnt having a go barry u miss the point

you say stoner first year on the duke surley it was everyones first year on the 800???
and thats exactly where it failed to suit the rider, the yam wasnt fast enough for a start.....
different electronics.....underpowered motor... shreded tyres......the duke just sutied casey better than the yam for rossi thats all i was saying....

just because its his 4th year doesnt mean the bike is better yes they try and build it around him but never seem to do that exactly how its needed, look what happend with the first generation of the 800,
id call changing to a new motor drastic wouldnt you so if the bike is like you say sooo perfect why would they be making such huge changes eh?????, clearly yam didnt get it rite.... with there springs, and i dont think the michelins were to clever either do you?? i also think the IL engine should be made to V configuration.

stoner and ducati hit the nail rite on the head it was a perfect match why do you think they didnt need to do alot to it this year they just changed a few bits, its just like if they changed the bike drasticly maybe stoner wouldnt dominate so much thats why they test to if the bike has evolved into something better, honda is a good example so like you say if they get better by the year why are honda using last years engine????

here:

saturday march 1st
repsol honda

All six Honda riders are still using a spring-valve engine design, with the factory team's new-for-2008 pneumatic-valve powerplant not yet performing at a high enough level to race.

get better every year do they barry............?????????????????

doesnt mean they make the bike better every year some do some dont, i think u should think hard about saying the bike gets better every year its not always true.....

like i said many things come into play you totally miss the point on purpose lol, all this ties in with who is the best rider, if they aint got the tools how can they do the job and not every one got the rite tools all of the time and thats why its hard to say who the best rider is.

stoner bike was a perfect match for him rite out of the box something most riders dont find.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 2 2008, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>because a rider may have never been given that perfectly suited bike in his career, but rossi seems to overcome this to a certain degree.

Could you explain this to me please?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 2 2008, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner bike was a perfect match for him rite out of the box something most riders dont find.

I can remember when the Ducati was "the best bike", and was the reason Stoner ws doing so good.

Indeed some folk even said "anyone could in on the Duc.", or "Rossi could win on the Duc.! .... remember that?

The Yamaha is a good bike ..... Lorenzo will show that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 2 2008, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could you explain this to me please?


yes thats all i meant by that tom was that rossi seems to still ride the bike to the limit even if the setup isnt that good or atleast he used to, he seems to extract the maximum potential out of the bike to a certain level even if it isnt that good on that day, like the same way he extracts the maximum performance out of worn tyres were as for some other riders it seems to make a big dent in there performance.
ive always wondered how rossi would be on the ducati, i mean if he could adapt to that also it would be the ultimate for me because then id know that he really can ride anything.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 2 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can remember when the Ducati was "the best bike", and was the reason Stoner ws doing so good.

Indeed some folk even said "anyone could in on the Duc.", or "Rossi could win on the Duc.! .... remember that?

The Yamaha is a good bike ..... Lorenzo will show that.


you just dont give up do you barry lol, you still miss the point i didnt say it was or wasnt the best bike its just more suited to stoners style more than other riders that all i was trying to say, and thats the reason he extracts the max potential out of it.

soz posted twice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 2 2008, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he seems to extract the maximum potential out of the bike to a certain level even if it isnt that good on that day,

I would say this is an essential skill posessed by all motogp world champions, points cannot be given away because the bike isn't perfect.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 2 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would say this is an essential skill posessed by all motogp world champions, points cannot be given away because the bike isn't perfect.


But come on Tom, surely Rossi should get points for arriving at the track.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 2 2008, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this is why i support rossi but for many other reasons also, i would say he was the best (as a all rounder) because the way he just is with a bike, even if hes not winning he always seems to squeeze the best out of a bike to the maximum of what it can give even if its not as fast as others, he also adapts very well to what ever he is riding and you cant deny that because even tho he isnt WC he still finishes near the top.
You are perfectly entitled to be a rossi fan . He has certainly given you much justification for supporting him over the years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 2 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you just dont give up do you barry lol, you still miss the point i didnt say it was or wasnt the best bike its just more suited to stoners style more than other riders that all i was trying to say, and thats the reason he extracts the max potential out of it.

What is to give up? You are still spouting Rossifan drivel.

And yes I do miss your point ..... precisely becasue it is drivel.

It would be a sad day if ever I got your point.

Your point was .... Poor old Rossi was given a bum bike by Yamaha ....... I disagree .... the Yamaha was a very good bike, reason would dictate that it is the best out there for Rossi. Perhaps the reason I still don't get it in your book is because you have failed to put forward any cojent argument justifying this. You have spouted idim and doctrine but not backed it with fact.

In the past you and many other Rossi fans have even gone as far as to say .... if Rossi was on the Duc. he would win ....... or ..... Stoner won because of the Duc. being "the best bike out there .... or ..... the electronics Stoner employs rides the bike for him ....... surely you remember all that crap!?

You are still spouting drivel ..... therefore I don't ( and never will ) get your point. To my own credit I would say ( patting my own back )

Do we again have to return to Kevin Schwantz comments after test riding each bike?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Mar 3 2008, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do we again have to return to Kevin Schwantz comments after test riding each bike?

what would be the pertinence there?

Adding the opinion of someone who actually rode the bikes wouldn't be pertinent? Or indeed more worthwhile than the opinion of someone that didn't?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 2 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would say this is an essential skill posessed by all motogp world champions,
Important but not nesesarry. We've seen riders winning without using the bike close to it's full potential.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Mar 2 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Both of those points are utter bollocks IMO

I give Doohan credibility because he was riding back in the 90s on the mighty 500s... these bikes today just because you can ride them doesn't really say much.

Look at the 250 noobs... Lorenzo first in qatar night test but i could count how many times hes rode a motogp bike with my hands.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 2 2008, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Consider this:

A rider comes in and totally wins everything .... but he rides for only a year then retires .... where would you place him?

Your asking to judge a rider on one season, he would be behind riders who have won it multiple times statistically.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 1 2008, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Equipment is never going to be equal outside of a total spec series, but i don't think this alters a sense of equality in achievement in the world championship. A rider must take on board career management, meaning that it is their responsibility to use the circumstances to make their way to the best possible teams and equipment.
So, what you say is that a rider is never better than what equipment is offered to him, or in rear occations selected by him?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Factory riders aren't drawn out of a hat, they are selected by impressing the right people, taking the right risks and achieving the right things. For this reason i don't believe a rider can be critisized for having the best equipment, as they are responsible for the positiont they find themselfes in by account of their own actions.

So a rider selecting lesser equipment is a worse rider?
Interesting pov.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 2 2008, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, what you say is that a rider is never better than what equipment is offered to him, or in rear occations selected by him?

A rider can be better than his equipment because abilities do not stay constant throughout a riders career, but they are in the position they are for a reason.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 2 2008, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So a rider selecting lesser equipment is a worse rider?
Interesting pov.

When as rider selects a team to ride for they are taking a risk. the riders who manage these risks best will achieve more. For example some riders value continuity and company loyalty over endlessly chasing the best equipment, it may seem a poor decision but for the sake of the riders phsycology it may be a smaller risk than team hopping. Make any sense?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Mar 3 2008, 07:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look at the 250 noobs... Lorenzo first in qatar night test but i could count how many times hes rode a motogp bike with my hands.

And furthermore don't forget that according to the Rossi fans that bike is the worst bike in history .... so if he was on a real bike ...... wow he would be lapping everyone else!!