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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Mar 2 2008, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look at the 250 noobs... Lorenzo first in qatar night test but i could count how many times hes rode a motogp bike with my hands.

Thats nothing new
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 2 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And furthermore don't forget that according to the Rossi fans that bike is the worst bike in history .... so if he was on a real bike ...... wow he would be lapping everyone else!!
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Surely he's riding the 2008 bike, not last years? & I'm sure no one has commented on that one before it has raced.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Mar 3 2008, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Surely he's riding the 2008 bike, not last years? & I'm sure no one has commented on that one before it has raced.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 2 2008, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When as rider selects a team to ride for they are taking a risk. the riders who manage these risks best will achieve more. For example some riders value continuity and company loyalty over endlessly chasing the best equipment, it may seem a poor decision but for the sake of the riders phsycology it may be a smaller risk than team hopping. Make any sense?

Not really. If I understood your first post a riders legacy are largely made by his tactical team/equipment dispositions. Loyalty surly isn't a smart move here, nither are challenges.
I can't dispute that making all the "smart" moves will give a rider better results, but does it make him a better rider?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 2 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not really. If I understood your first post a riders legacy are largely made by his tactical team/equipment dispositions. Loyalty surly isn't a smart move here, nither are challenges.
I can't dispute that making all the "smart" moves will give a rider better results, but does it make him a better rider?

Loyalty may not appear a smart move, but if changing teams is going to have a negative affect on a riders phycology, it is smarter to stay. Similarly taking on challanges (Rossi 04 obvious example) may appear to be self harming, but if it provides him with motivation that would otherwise be absent, is a far less risky decision than it first seems. I do not think that making the smart moves will have a large affect on a riders actuall skill or technique, but it will help them get results which ultimately is the only true measure of success, as it is the very reason why they race in the first place.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 3 2008, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do not think that making the smart moves will have a large affect on a riders actuall skill or technique, but it will help them get results which ultimately is the only true measure of success, as it is the very reason why they race in the first place.

And I guess that sums it up. If you think success is the very reason they race in the first place then I feel sorry for you. I mean, it must reflect on your own view of the world, and success measured by outsiders are only given very few and probably none of us here.
I'm not ruling out success as one of the factors, but I would imagine that interest or even passion for what you are doing must be a huge factor when it comes to specialized sports like this. If success was the all important goal there are so many other things you can do with less risk and better odds than becomming a motorbike racer and hope for the world championship in MotoGP.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 2 2008, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And I guess that sums it up. If you think success is the very reason they race in the first place then I feel sorry for you. I mean, it must reflect on your own view of the world, and success measured by outsiders are only given very few and probably none of us here.
I'm not ruling out success as one of the factors, but I would imagine that interest or even passion for what you are doing must be a huge factor when it comes to specialized sports like this. If success was the all important goal there are so many other things you can do with less risk and better odds than becomming a motorbike racer and hope for the world championship in MotoGP.

To take the risks these guys take and make the commitment and sacrifices of normal life that they do speaks for how dedicated they are to winning the world championship, thats what they opperate for, and thats why they are there. These are proffessional sportsmen, there are few people in the world more competative
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 3 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To take the risks these guys take and make the commitment and sacrifices of normal life that they do speaks for how dedicated they are to winning the world championship, thats what they opperate for, and thats why they are there. These are proffessional sportsmen, there are few people in the world more competative

Dedicated for sure, but don't you think there is a lot more going into that dedication than winning the championship. For many of them there has been a long way to get there and little to earn so far.

Besides, here we talk about those very few that reached MotoGP. What about all those that never get outside national series but work hard in those series for a decade. Surly those guys have the same dedication, maybe even the same talent, but wrong nationality or bad timing.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 3 2008, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dedicated for sure, but don't you think there is a lot more going into that dedication than winning the championship. For many of them there has been a long way to get there and little to earn so far.

We seem to agree completely here, the riders who actually make it to motogp are obviously the ones who wil aim for nothing except for being the best in the world.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 1 2008, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Watch yourself with that quote Tom! I agree with you but the Schwantz thing can hit some raw nerves!


I also have to say that it would take a lot to convince even a long time Rossi fan like me that Rossi was a better rider than Stoner last year.

Will Stoner equal Vale's achievements? Well certainly not in the lower classes, and he has a bit to go on the big bikes.

Pete
I actually agree that stoner is unlikely to win 5 motogp championships, and I also don't discount vale's chances of adding to his current tally. I think stoner rode at least as well as vale last year, but this does not make him equivalent overall to someone who has performed over many years.

We will all have to wait and see what transpires this year.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 3 2008, 03:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We seem to agree completely here, the riders who actually make it to motogp are obviously the ones who wil aim for nothing except for being the best in the world.

I think that Colin Edwards summed it up in the movie "Faster". He said something along the lines of, everybody is out there riding like hell, risking their lives, for what...A couple of points. He didn't say much but it gave some perspective into his motivations and mindset.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 3 2008, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We seem to agree completely here, the riders who actually make it to motogp are obviously the ones who wil aim for nothing except for being the best in the world.

Well, I guess my point was that there are lots of others with the same goals but with less luck and/or ability. But I'm not the one to say they are not just as serious and sacrifice just as much.
 
The more I read Stoner's comments the more I am inclined to adjust my previous position on the matter concerning Rossi not speaking to him. I am convinced that the comment about Rossi not speaking to him is an affirmation that he has the Doctors respect and attention as a legitimate threat. We just need to look back to his relationship with Gibbers, or Hayden in 2006. If Rossi does not see you as a threat you can be pals, but if you are seen as a title contender then you get the cold shoulder, as it should be the stakes in MotoGP are too high to "love your enemy". What do you guys think about my theory?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 3 2008, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The more I read Stoner's comments the more I am inclined to adjust my previous position on the matter concerning Rossi not speaking to him. I am convinced that the comment about Rossi not speaking to him is an affirmation that he has the Doctors respect and attention as a legitimate threat. We just need to look back to his relationship with Gibbers, or Hayden in 2006. If Rossi does not see you as a threat you can be pals, but if you are seen as a title contender then you get the cold shoulder, as it should be the stakes in MotoGP are too high to "love your enemy". What do you guys think about my theory?

I never saw Rossi fall out with Hayden... its kind of impossible not to like a fun guy like Nicky.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 3 2008, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, I guess my point was that there are lots of others with the same goals but with less luck and/or ability. But I'm not the one to say they are not just as serious and sacrifice just as much.

OK i must not have explained well enough, sorry. I'm not trying to suggest that riders who don't make it to motogp just don't care enough, but rather everyone who does make it will have no aims other that being the best. Not one motogp rider would say "i don't really mind where i finish i just ride around for fun" that attitude would not get them to this level.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 4 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OK i must not have explained well enough, sorry. I'm not trying to suggest that riders who don't make it to motogp just don't care enough, but rather everyone who does make it will have no aims other that being the best. Not one motogp rider would say "i don't really mind where i finish i just ride around for fun" that attitude would not get them to this level.

I guess we agree.
What I ried to get through is that I doubt that those few that make it to the top would ever say:
"Motorbikes isn't really my thing. I'm just in it for the money and fame. " :)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 4 2008, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess we agree.
What I ried to get through is that I doubt that those few that make it to the top would ever say:
"Motorbikes isn't really my thing. I'm just in it for the money and fame. " :)

Oh well if i gave the impression i thought that then i wasn't clear, i don't think that would ever be the case. My bad
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Mar 3 2008, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I never saw Rossi fall out with Hayden... its kind of impossible not to like a fun guy like Nicky.


What I meant to imply was that if Rossi stops talking to you it is an unofficial sign that you have arrived as a legitimate title threat, not that they had any sort of falling out.
 

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