stoner not happy

Casey would have been better off keeping his mouth shut no this one IMO. Its not going to do him or his career any benefits to come out and say these things.

Bring the 990's back so everyone can STFU

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skid @ Feb 26 2008, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Seriously phleg all jousting aside, to make a credible, positive argument for introducing a rev limit in motoGP, you must show us how it is either beneficial or completely necessary. "If you are HRC" does tick both those boxes I guess

You seem to assume that this issue can't be overcome by Honda within the next full 12 months, because that's the first time any possible rule change will have any effect what so ever.
If they don't get their rev limit they will eventually do like they did in SBK and exploit the ruels as they are (RC51), and build an engine reving faster and pulling more power then Ducati ever will, but they don't have to like it. Problem is, Ducati will like it even less, simply because they will have lost the battle. The SBK history will not repeat here, as motoGP is the japanese domain, while sbk were Ducati's. That's why they will continue to spend the moeny nesesarry to stay on top. Yamaha and Honda will not pull out, they will just make faster and more expencive machines then any other can afford. That's the reality we might face in '09/'10. Is that something we want? NO! I'm not saying it's going to happen but casey's outburst might hint in the direction that Ducati have more in storage and if that's the case and we see another season where they fly away on the straights '09 look like Hondas year and '10 with half the grid of today. That's when you should go over to Duacati Racing and congratualte them with a hard fought "victory".

Stoner's seems to be inconsistent about reasons for complaints.. Is it because the Japanese are trying to make his bike slower? Or is it becuase he is not being given enough credit? If last year's result was becuase of his skill, as he claim, then why is he concerned about the possible changes in regulation? All this whining, while he is still the champion. If he startes losing this season, I predict that he will become another Max Biaggi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Feb 26 2008, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner's seems to be inconsistent about reasons for complaints.. Is it because the Japanese are trying to make his bike slower? Or is it becuase he is not being given enought credit? It last year's result was becuase of his skill, why is he concerned about the any possible changes in regulation? All this whining, while he is still the champion. If he startes losing this season, I predict that he will become another Max Biaggi.
-excellent .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 26 2008, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
LMAO! , where do you find all these hilarious images?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 26 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....... hell., that stoner can be a whiner at times ,
if it wasn't down to the bike then why are you so scared about a rev limit ??

That is a good question isn't it....but hey Stoner doesn't have to be consistent with what his fans say of him...of course he is a kid

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it just me or does it sound like a deja vue? Anyone remember the "Numbers don't 1ie" thing.
To me that was an obvious sign of someone in a very defensive position.
This look so much the same, alltoug a very different issue.
To attack Honda and Yamaha for soemthing they want in '09, obviously because he does think the desmo valve give them a significant advantage and at the same time expressing anger for not giving him credit beacuse "all" claim it's the bike is a contradiction as clear as it gets. Sounds like the worst worshippers on this forum.

Of course this is based on how it came out in the press. I would not be surpriced if the angle was entirely different in the actual interview. If he laughed about the propsal instead of expressing anger the picture would have looked sooo much better.
Sometimes atacking is in reality the defencive move, just like this look like.
I don't know if his odds went up or down with this one, but it doesn't look good for him if Yamaha and Honda really made the improvements they say they do.

That's because the debate is with the most narrow-minded "worshippers" like the guy you see in the mirror. Here you are chastising Casey for something that clearly is a pathetic power play by the two Jap brands, and your reaction is to say its some psychological "defensive" shortcoming on the part of the rider? .... man, I know those special glasses you have make everything look "different" but do they also make you dumb in the process?

The issue reminds you of the "numbers don't lie" thing because the world of motorcycle racing has a bunch of one-sided, narrow minded, blind-cheerleading-Rossi-worshippers that refuse to give credit to the rider when he does the business and wins a title (PLEASE, not to be confused with actual fair & balanced Rossi fans who I have come to appreciate). The irony of course is, you go around singing your boy Rossi's praises when he does win all those titles (chalking it up to HE-is-the-man), but when he doesn't win then come out the long and pathetic list of excuses: <u>tires (your favorite)</u>, engine, reliability, power, traction control, bla, bla, bla, etc, etc.

Get a grip man. You sound stupid. Look in the mirror when you come out with such ........ .... and ask yourself, am I the rossi-pinky of the forum?

(BTW, don’t go crying foul here, afterall, how was it that you put it so eloquently? Oh yeah: “.... YOU Jumkie”. Haha, nice one, very articulate, clever, and original.)

I'm not a fan of Stoners, but I don't see this as whinging, more a case of pointing out the obvious.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 26 2008, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....... hell., that stoner can be a whiner at times ,



if it wasn't down to the bike then why are you so scared about a rev limit ??


Nicely done buddy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 27 2008, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's because the debate is with the most narrow-minded "worshippers" like the guy you see in the mirror. Here you are chastising Casey for something that clearly is a pathetic power play by the two Jap brands, and your reaction is to say its some psychological "defensive" shortcoming on the part of the rider? .... man, I know those special glasses you have make everything look "different" but do they also make you dumb in the process?

The issue reminds you of the "numbers don't lie" thing because the world of motorcycle racing has a bunch of one-sided, narrow minded, blind-cheerleading-Rossi-worshippers that refuse to give credit to the rider when he does the business and wins a title (PLEASE, not to be confused with actual fair & balanced Rossi fans who I have come to appreciate). The irony of course is, you go around singing your boy Rossi's praises when he does win all those titles (chalking it up to HE-is-the-man), but when he doesn't win then come out the long and pathetic list of excuses: <u>tires (your favorite)</u>, engine, reliability, power, traction control, bla, bla, bla, etc, etc.

Get a grip man. You sound stupid. Look in the mirror when you come out with such ........ .... and ask yourself, am I the rossi-pinky of the forum?

(BTW, don’t go crying foul here, afterall, how was it that you put it so eloquently? Oh yeah: “.... YOU Jumkie”. Haha, nice one, very articulate, clever, and original.)


nice

Unfortunately the brick wall you are consistently smashing your head against will not be moved.
Now try to imagine the different responses if Valentino was riding for Ducati? Might happen sooner than you think. ( 2009? ) You will then witness as many about faces, as you would at a Military parade.

Good to see Casey is pissed at them ..... bodes well for his season now .... look what he showed the hecklers at Donnongton 07

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Feb 26 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> nice

Unfortunately the brick wall you are consistently smashing your head against will not be moved.
Now try to imagine the different responses if Valentino was riding for Ducati? Might happen sooner than you think. ( 2009? ) You will then witness as many about faces, as you would at a Military parade.
same could be said if your boy went from lcr to repsol...childish un fact full response, pure speculation

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You seem to assume that this issue can't be overcome by Honda within the next full 12 months, because that's the first time any possible rule change will have any effect what so ever.
If they don't get their rev limit they will eventually do like they did in SBK and exploit the ruels as they are (RC51), and build an engine reving faster and pulling more power then Ducati ever will, but they don't have to like it. Problem is, Ducati will like it even less, simply because they will have lost the battle. The SBK history will not repeat here, as motoGP is the japanese domain, while sbk were Ducati's. That's why they will continue to spend the moeny nesesarry to stay on top. Yamaha and Honda will not pull out, they will just make faster and more expencive machines then any other can afford. That's the reality we might face in '09/'10. Is that something we want? NO! I'm not saying it's going to happen but casey's outburst might hint in the direction that Ducati have more in storage and if that's the case and we see another season where they fly away on the straights '09 look like Hondas year and '10 with half the grid of today. That's when you should go over to Duacati Racing and congratualte them with a hard fought "victory".

Here ladies and gentlemen we have a case study in the art of SPIN. However, the object when SPINNING is to be subtle and not appear to be biased, but to make the reader think the argument is being made for benign and generous reasons. Unfortunately the above post has not been able to pull of this delicate balancing act; because it exposed itself to its true and manipulative motives.

Lets break it down, lets look at the characterization and analysis in his statements:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You seem to assume that this issue can't be overcome by Honda within the next full 12 months, because that's the first time any possible rule change will have any effect what so ever.

Well then, here babel trys to make the case that Honda can simply overcome this lack of development . Well then, what is the point here? If they can, then why submit a proposal to limit the competitor that stands to lose the most? There can only be one of two reasons:

A. Honda (& lets not forget about Yamaha) want to bring down cost. This is what babel would like us to believe. (Consider this, of all the long list of possible ways they could have brainstormed, think of the army of smart Japanese engineers and accountants they have) to “bring down cost” the best and only current proposal they could come up with is to reduce revs). Breathtaking, I know.

Or

B. This is a pathetic attempt to change the rules because they are behind the development curve and look very stupid in the process.

I’m going with possibility: B

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If they don't get their rev limit they will eventually do like they did in SBK and exploit the ruels as they are (RC51), and build an engine reving faster and pulling more power then Ducati ever will, but they don't have to like it. Problem is, Ducati will like it even less, simply because they will have lost the battle. The SBK history will not repeat here, as motoGP is the japanese domain, while sbk were Ducati's. That's why they will continue to spend the moeny nesesarry to stay on top.

Here we have a case where babel has totally over simplified the parity of WSBK. (Keep in mind that this series tries to pinion two distinct engine configurations (twins vs fours) on the same track. The pendulum has swung both ways, history shows that beginning in 88, the fours first dominated then the twins (Forgaty 93-98), then a Jap twin (Edwards twice, Honda), then fours (Honda again), then again twin, all the while trying to balance the parity (fair uniformity) of displacement vs horse power, vs torque vs etc, etc. That is a very difficult balancing act. In those years we had 750 vs 900 vs 1000 vs 750 vs 1000 vs 1000 and now 1000 vs 1200. So lets not pretend that the issue can hardly be compared to the two very different series. Today, MotoGP its about making an 800 produce. In this case, Ducati “seems” to be the “better” of the development curves. Now consider, had Casey not existed, then this would undoubtedly NOT have been an issue since Loris did so poorly and we might have seen a Yamaha or Honda as the 07 title. Interesting how you concede that MotoGP is the Jap domain, yet find NO sneaky business with the two most powerful Jap brands making this proposal, have you asked yourself why?

Yet, here babel tries to make the case that:

A. Honda/Yamaha can just overcome this disparity by “exploiting” the rules like they did with the “RC51”. Wow, well then, I suggest they do it.

B. Oh wait, I forgot, its because the richeses most powerful brand with more money than the Lord himself, wants to make it more affordable for “everybody”…..yeah right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha and Honda will not pull out, they will just make faster and more expencive machines then any other can afford. That's the reality we might face in '09/'10. Is that something we want?

“That’s the reality we might face”? On no, it’s the end of the world. Oh my God, run for the hills, the end is coming!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>NO! I'm not saying it's going to happen but casey's outburst might hint in the direction that Ducati have more in storage and if that's the case and we see another season where they fly away on the straights '09 look like Hondas year and '10 with half the grid of today. That's when you should go over to Duacati Racing and congratualte them with a hard fought "victory".


What? “NO! I’m not saying its going to happen…” Ah, I’m so glad you said that, I was already packing my bags for the after-life.

By the way, nice characterization of Casey’s take on the issue; his “outburst”. Haha, are you a reporter in disguise? All this does is further cement that you are simply a sour grapes sour loser, just like the two Jap companies you are now trying to defend.

The ironic thing is I have warmed up to Rossi considerably. In retrospect, I do think he suffered from some bad issue the last two years (but afterall that is racing, so good some bad). I found myself rooting for him several times this year secretly, (albeit against Padrosa) and to keep Stoner at bay from run-away wins. But fans of his like yourself have made it increasingly difficult to argue for the guy when around every corner it’s a dig at Stoner via a defense for something else, in this case Yamaha/Honda (of all people). But I’ll let you know right now (as if you need the heads-up) that I will keep checking your ........ every time you try to make some weak case to apologize for poor performances, or denigrate outstanding performance from his competition. Why you ask? Because its easy to debate such an unconvincing poster as yourself. And its just plain fun. Hahahaha.

Is there anything else you want to enlighten us about? How is the taste of that can of worms you opened up?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2008, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's because the debate is with the most narrow-minded "worshippers" like the guy you see in the mirror. Here you are chastising Casey for something that clearly is a pathetic power play by the two Jap brands, and your reaction is to say its some psychological "defensive" shortcoming on the part of the rider? .... man, I know those special glasses you have make everything look "different" but do they also make you dumb in the process?

If you can't see the contradiction in what he says I guess there is no doubt who wear the glasses Jumkie.
You are behaving just like last time (n d 1) and jump on me just because you refuse to see the obvious. If he is such a wonderful fast rider, doing it all by himslef, then there is no need for worry and he should laugh about it. If this IS a real advantage it will hurt them in the long run, because it will disapear and to go from there will be extreemly expencive.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The issue reminds you of the "numbers don't lie" thing because the world of motorcycle racing has a bunch of one-sided, narrow minded, blind-cheerleading-Rossi-worshippers that refuse to give credit to the rider when he does the business and wins a title (PLEASE, not to be confused with actual fair & balanced Rossi fans who I have come to appreciate). The irony of course is, you go around singing your boy Rossi's praises when he does win all those titles (chalking it up to HE-is-the-man), but when he doesn't win then come out the long and pathetic list of excuses: <u>tires (your favorite)</u>, engine, reliability, power, traction control, bla, bla, bla, etc, etc.
Pathetic is the one who doesn't even see that this has nothing to do with Rossi. This really confirm that YOU are much more pasionate and blinded in your attacs against Rossi fans than I am a Rossi fan. This have become your big crusade and thats to bad.
This is about the rules for '09 and if Yamaha fail to deliver this year Rossi will be gone, and not to Honda, more likely Ducati. So answere me, how could this possibly have anything to do with Rossi? If that was the case and follwing your logic I should opose to the proposal as Rossi might very well benefit from those desmo valves in the not so far away future. And belive it or not, I like Ducati, and I like Stoner, and I were of the few who warned about stoners potential in '06. And if you wonder I consider Stoner on par with Rossi right now. With all the confidence he need (alltough this article sets the first questionsign in that regard) and all the other properties he need to be a great multi champion. That said it will be interesting to see how he handle the pressure both from being a chamion and hopefully with the other riders not standing parked at the exit of the curves.
But I honestly and truly think both Ducati and Stoner has behaved stupid when going out that strong against the proposal from Yamaha and Honda. BTW That's two lables I don't have a strong hart for despite owning a Honda.
But I'm a realist and pushing a substantial advantage (if there is one) will hurt them in the long run because they don't have the muscels to handle those two in the political arena and they don't have the money to follow when the two follow and pass Ducati.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Get a grip man. You sound stupid. Look in the mirror when you come out with such ........ .... and ask yourself, am I the rossi-pinky of the forum?

(BTW, don’t go crying foul here, afterall, how was it that you put it so eloquently? Oh yeah: “.... YOU Jumkie”. Haha, nice one, very articulate, clever, and original.)

I wouldn't dream of screaming foul despite all your lies and .... throwing Jumkie. And why should I, you're not even able to reply so your irational rant stays there undressed and as a document of your "credibility"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>..........
..............
...................
The sound of backpedaling.

Thanks for the “clarifications”.

Give Honda time, they will work out the pneumatic valve system and match the high rev's that the duke is getting with 1950's tech. Don't all the F1 cars run pneumatics? Why aren't the Japanese manufacturers trying out desmo valve tech? Does Ducati own the patent?

I agree what others have said, Ducati are no angels either, with their rule changes that they have "forced" in WSBK. Time will tell if the 1098 starts dominating and will require more handicaps placed on it.

Basically you can win a war through battle (in this case the riders, engineering) or win a war through diplomacy (in this case rules). I seriously doubt that this rule will go through but I don't blame Honda for trying. That said I would rather they would push the engineering aspect, which is the point of the series (the best bikes with the best riders).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2008, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here ladies and gentlemen we have a case study in the art of SPIN. However, the object when SPINNING is to be subtle and not appear to be biased, but to make the reader think the argument is being made for benign and generous reasons. Unfortunately the above post has not been able to pull of this delicate balancing act; because it exposed itself to its true and manipulative motives.

Bla bla bla

Claiming to be a credible man it's surpriceing to see that your refuse the inevidible:
Development go forward. If there is one thing that is certain is that the man and the bike on top won't stay there forever. But what happens when the japanse has spendt what ever it takes to beat Ducati, letting the cost spiral take several revolutions in between? It's not about reducing cost, just a fool belive that. It's about slowin the cost spiral and if the ducati has a substantial advantage today the spiral will start evolving fast.
Because that's the other universial rule you forget: Money rules.
The reason I used the RC51 as an example is that it took some time for Honda to give up on their imensly expensive RC45 and go for a twin configuration at a time where nothing but a twin could win. They took their time but the came around. The big difference is that they regard SBK much less important. Proved by the fact that all the japanese pulled out og SBK when the control tire rule came around. They won't do that in MotoGP and they won't wait that long to come up with the resources needed to beat Ducati either. The question is, should they start spending the money and muscle out Ducati and Kawasaki or should they do an attempt to reduce the cost increase? It's politics and nothing to get really excited about. Of course, now I assume that they've concluded that Ducati has a real advantage and that's where they need to attack. But that's only an assuption for the arguments sake. I have no clue if this is the real deal or not. I guess we will see in little more than a week from now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2008, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The sound of backpedaling.

Thanks for the “clarifications”.

And thanks for your noon existing arguments, allthough I would love to se the gymnastic you use to call that backpedaling.

You're still here?

Ok, lets keep playing then...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would love to se the gymnastic you use to call that backpedaling.

Ok, check below for an example:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 26 2008, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have no clue if this is the real deal or not. I guess we will see in little more than a week from now.
If you can't hear the sound of backpedaling, then you may want to get your ears checked. (But don't go to the same "doctor" that gave you those "glasses" prescription.)

Any more questions?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Feb 26 2008, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope that's not bridges I smell burning...
He must be confident about both ducati's long term prospects in motogp and his long term prospects at ducati, or else he has spoken off the top of his head without thinking which has been known to happen before.

I would have thought he had not so much burnt as vapourised his bridges with honda; if you recall he trashed them last year, saying they didn't give him their good stuff in 2006 and that he suspected that his bike was changed overnight without his knowledge. He has certainly been critical of michelin, and now of yamaha and may be limiting his future options which is one reason he will have trouble winning a lot of world championships.

On the other hand I think what he says is quite valid, and he does have a tendency to tell the truth as he sees it, which is in many ways admirable if not diplomatically sound.