Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Which I assume is a comeback at Casey's birthday jibe at Lorenzo:
Casey Stoner
your idea was better to stay in the box.
Which I assume is a comeback at Casey's birthday jibe at Lorenzo:
Casey Stoner
your idea was better to stay in the box.His results went south from 2007 till 2011 and he still managed to keep the sunny side up
I think that beating his head against the wall that is the Ducati R&D department took more of a toll than the riding... if you give 100% and know you give 100% and don't win, you can't really go beating yourself up - unless it is for being so stupid as to sign for another year
Stoner has had one season before the monster regs came in Motogp-2006-he came 8th
Or you could look at it from another perspective...
in his first year in MotoGP, with LCR, a team in their first year in MotoGP, on an undeveloped customer RC211V, on customer tyres, with a very limited budget, Stoner managed a pole position in only his second race, followed up with a podium in his third.
He went on to place in the top five four more times that season, despite giving away more than 20km/h to the factory prototypes.
Finishing the season in eighth place, he could take comfort in his rookie season for having achieved a better placing than previous champion Kenny Roberts Jr., double world Superbike champion Colin Edwards and finishing ahead of factory riders John Hopkins, Shinya Nakano, Randy de Puniet, Chris Vermuelen, race winner Tony Elias and veteran riders Sete Gibernau and Carlos Checa.
Losing the rookie championship to Dani Pedrosa on the factory HRC by ten points, Stoner would make up for this in his next season by winning the world championship on the untried Ducati desmosedici 800. Delivering the Italian factory their first GP championship, Stoner also becomes the second-youngest premiere class World Champion in history.
He went on to become the 800cc MotoGP championship's most successul racer, winning a total of 33 races and two championships between 2007 and 2011.
Yep, it's all about the alignment of all of the right components at the right time and place.
After all, even Hayden managed to out-point the field to net a championship, despite only two wins
How's that for an unexpected event?
I think he doesn't like rule changes for the simple reason that they cost teams a lot of money to keep changing, and that cost has seen a lot of potentially competitive teams have to drop out. I feel exactly the same way.
He is railing against Dorna's claim, on one hand, to want to make the series more affordable, while on the other continually changing the rules, thereby making it more expensive, to the extent that now they want to dumb down the series - when it is Dorna, the FIM and MSMA's rule changes that have been the main reason for the expense.
I really think he wants to win on a level playing field, not because the rules make it that he has a machine advantage.
If Dorna has really wanted it to be affordable, they should have instituted the following rules: 1000cc limit. 150kg minimum weight. No exotic materials (carbon fibre, magnesium, unobtainium, etc.) No external electronics (including GPS, ride-by-wire engineering, etc.).
The most efficient formula would have shaken itself out in a couple of years by default. Probably V4 1000s with TC and advanced electronic suspension control. We would now be in year 12 of that formula and would have seen all sorts of teams come up with all sorts of smart engineering solutions to the problem of going faster... instead we have REALLY expensive superbike racing with so many rules it makes Sim City look like Shove Ha'penny.
Thanks. Just make sure you adhere to the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time, it's just rambling. 20% of the time it's useful. That's my goal at least.
Joined Apr 2011
900 Posts | 4+
somewhere else
He also went on to lose the following 3 titles after blitzing the field in 07....... When the others caught up and got the right rubber. Like I said the regs helped him a lot early on
Talpa, ffs. He won a title for a marque for which no-one else has won a gp championship, on a bike which won only one race with a rider other than him ( that other rider generally struggled for podiums) and then in unusual circumstances, and continued to win races for them after 2007 since when no-one else has been able to win races period, including the great valentino.
It seems far more likely that he won in 2007 at a time when honda and/or yamaha didn't have their traditional huge advantage rather than ducati having a massive advantage, or any global advantage at all. Rule changes may have contributed to the traditional powerhouses not having the advantage in 2007 they usually have, but this seems (to me anyway) a rather small thing for you to cling to.
God it is good to see the real Talpa back in all his buck toothed hating glory.
Someone must have hacked his account there for a while as some of the posts contained none of the usual.
Someone must have hacked his account there for a while as some of the posts contained none of the usual.
So did twenty other guys... there can only be one winner.
Saying Stoner 'went on to lose the following 3 titles' is... crap.
How many titles has Rossi lost now? 8? 9? Damn! He's beating Stoner - he's lost 10!
Hayden is the winner here, though - he's lost the title 6 times on the trot!
What evidence do you have to that effect? I doubt you can produce any b/c that's not the way it happened.
After Qatar 2008, there was a battle royale in the Ducati garage between Stoner, the factory techs, and Bridgestone. After an 'easy' WC in 2007, Ducati inexplicably decided to re-engineer Casey's bike, and abandon Ducati DNA by beginning carbon frame development. Bridgestone stopped delivering Casey's 2007-spec tires. Rumors started at Jerez that Casey was losing his mind, and by China 2008 Casey actually spoke to reporters about Bridgestone's refusal to supply his tires. Casey's apparent motivation to go public was his 2008 race time for the Chinese GP, which had risen compared to 2007. Midway through the 2008 season, we had the introduction of a new Rossi-Stoner front Bridgestone, a tire that had squishy edges. No doubt an attempt to increase the contact patch using F1 tire tech. The new Bstone design philosophy was significant b/c it was the opposite of what they had done with Casey in 2007. Back then, Bstone made a very aggressive profile to increase the size of the contact patch, thus increase the grip of the rubber compound. To cope with the additional cornering forces, the tire carcass was made very hard.
Long story short, all signs, from the emergency tire meetings to the introduction of the control tire, point to a set of regulations that upset Stoner's applecart, rather than passing Stoner's tech to the entire paddock. They already had access in 2007, but most riders complained that his stuff was unrideable. To this day, the entire paddock wants to transition away from Stoner's beloved code-24 Bridgestone, BUT Bridgestone have been resistant. With HRC backing, Bstone have preserved the 24 and created a new softer-carcass 21 with identical performance to the 24 (good job Bstone).
Tires started the downward spiral of MotoGP, including Kawasaki's withdrawal after their 2008 offensive was thwarted by shifting tire regs. Tire design was revolutionized by the fuel rules. If pursuit of minimum lap time is the goal, braking wastes time and energy. In an energy shortage, braking or acceleration will have to give. Honda/Yam/Michelin bet acceleration would give (spring valve engines). Ducati/Bridgestone worked to eliminate braking by raising corner entry speed. The tumult that ensued can hardly be classified as beneficial for anyone.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Yep, it's all about the alignment of all of the right components at the right time and place.
After all, even Hayden managed to out-point the field to net a championship, despite only two winsHe managed to stay on the bike when his competitors didn't and managed to finish high up enough on the leaderboard to keep his nose in front.
How's that for an unexpected event?
You should have been here when it happened. A shitstorm of blind hatred from the Rossifans ensued; a pandemonium of mindless rage.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
It would have to be a scanning electron microscope given the "evidence" he has presented so far.....
Cos Electronic Aids are like Bandaids ....... the bigger the cut the more you need
with so many horsepowers you'd need at least 10 electronic aids!!??
You've got electronic aids !!!!
Talps, seriously dude, your posts are speculative .........
You are just one of those people that cannot back down, can you. There are fucken excuses for every time your idol doesn't win, and its always someone elses fault. To bring up the same old arguement (AGAIN), if the 2007 Ducati was so much better than everyone else (although you are really only concerned about the bike with the yellow 46 on the front), what happened to Loris.
Do you think Ducati would have been w/c if they had secured Melandri in 2007 ???
Most rational people will agree that Stoner has been the fastest for most of his time in MotoGP. If you think it would have been any different if the rules stayed unchanged for 2007 with 990's, you are seriously blind !!!!
You can use speculative ........ to support any arguement. It means nothing.
Even if Stoner he had stayed on the LCR bike in 2007, with 2006 990cc regs, he probably would have given the factory teams a big shake.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
"I've always said we know Casey's the guy that's the fastest guy in the world. Maybe over the seasons he hasn't put the championships together, but by far he's the best guy in the world." Cal Crutchlow
If bridgestone are still providing the old hard tyre (I wasn't sure they were), then I have no complaint, and nor should casey. If the new 2012 tyre suits others better than him, then it is the reverse of the previous situation and no concern of his competitors.
I always thought you were on the money about the 2008 tyre situation, and my problem was always the bridgestone tyre ducati took a leap into the void and expended several years to develop being taken away, not bridgestones being made available to other riders.
I think there was more that was odd about ducati than tyres in early 2008 (post qatar anyway) concerning which stoner has made no comment post ducati, not that he has made any comment about the tyres either. His only real criticism of ducati period is that rossi has been given much greater resources than he was.
There was the engine related dnf followed by reversion to the 2007 engine, and the bike not just being unwieldy but not wanting to turn at all at jerez and estoril. I wondered at the time whether this was the result of an attempt to make the bike "handle better". perhaps even at stoner's instigation, as talk that he couldn't dogfight with rossi obviously rankled. If so, it had similar results to the attempts in 2010 and 2011. I am not sure why they went carbon fibre either, although the perceived wisdom at the time did seem to be that it was antiquated and off the pace, and I believe stoner was frustrated they couldn't give him a number 1 and number 2 bike that had more than a passing resemblance to each other.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
You can only lose what you have... i.e. you can only lose the title in the year you are defending it. After that, nothing more to lose.
