Turncoat.
As your new persona is "The Contrarian", are you allowed to re-invent your past?
Stoner might retire by the end of 2012 season.
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Turncoat.
As your new persona is "The Contrarian", are you allowed to re-invent your past?
Not that it is necessarily going to happen (the championship wins I mean), but if he retired at the end of 2014 with 3 wins in succession with honda plus the ducati championship, at age 27 or whatever, I think it would create rather than taint a legend.
If rossi had retired as the title holder at the end of the 2009 season as he had previously intimated he might, his legend would be absolutely unchallenged, there would be no rider with an arguably superior record over part of his career, it was generally accepted he was better than ago, with ago's greater number of championships tempered by less arguable bike superiority, etc etc. If stoner and lorenzo had then proceeded to win 5 championships or whatever it would still be the case that rossi had beaten them and had even stoner 2 championships to one head to head. I think there is a fair chance rossi will still end up being regarded as the GOAT in the long term, but unless he somehow comes up with another championship a la ago on the yamaha, his post 2009 career has definitely detracted from his goathood.
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Only if we wanted to engage in fun meaningless discussions. The lessons of 2011 continue to be ignored it seems. Les we forget the turn of fortunes a season can make for arguably the Goat, which would equally apply to a presumptive Goat.
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Do u have something to debate or u just gonna spit into the wind?
If stoner retired at the end of 2014 rather than making him the goat it would mean he had given up any chance of being the goat. Retiring at the top (if he was still at the top) in sports is always cool though imo.
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Or u could spin it (if u were so inclined) as he doest want to continue in an environment that is increasingly difficult to win. Going into this season it looked to be an
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Rules have always been arbitrary. Everybody is subject to them. What is the message when one refuses to race because rules have changed? Also, do fortunes change when rules change?
Seems to me parenthood is the most reasonable reason to leave the sport. Not that any reason isnt good enuf, but certainly not all equally defendable.
He has stated that CRT is not for him. Maybe he is wrong & they will still be exciting to ride. But that seems to be his way of thinking right now, rightly or wrongly.
Since when do we have to defend someone who wants to retire anyway? Some media people here have suggested he try to go after Doohans 5 titles and over 50 race wins.
He has also said that he isn't interested in doing so. Again that's his choice. If he retired next year or the year after then as far as I'm concerned good luck to him.
I will have enjoyed his journey & wish him & his family the best. The show goes on just the same.
One more thing Jum. Since when is a title easy to win? You of all fans should know it isn't. Every title is earned.
He came to a team in 2011 that had an incumbent alien,yet signed on the dotted line & backed himself in to beat the Puig/Pedrosa team & he did.
This year the Yamaha is at least an equal right now, so Lorenzo still has a good chance to claim a 2nd title.
I think Casey has enough faith in his ability to still be a major contender regardless of rules or regulations.
He has been away from his home since he was 15 as well. Maybe he has just had enough.
He came to a team in 2011 that had an incumbent alien,yet signed on the dotted line & backed himself in to beat the Puig/Pedrosa team & he did.
This year the Yamaha is at least an equal right now, so Lorenzo still has a good chance to claim a 2nd title.
I think Casey has enough faith in his ability to still be a major contender regardless of rules or regulations.
He has been away from his home since he was 15 as well. Maybe he has just had enough.
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Ive had a chance to meet Stoner a few years back. TBH I thought he might be a nice guy but his wife was very controlling with other girls around. We just wanted to say hello, but the look she gave us, and then to him, could have turned us to stone. I think she's wearing the pants in that relationship. With him having a kid she is unable to travel as frequently and I'm sure she is making him feel guilty about being away from her. I actually feel a bit sorry for him.
If he was to retire I would say it was because of her.
If he was to retire I would say it was because of her.
He has always stated when the time comes he'll walk - after all those years away from home, 2 x WC's possibly 3, $$ set up for the rest of my life if Adrianna asked me to come home no more play I would listen ! for a little while anyway LOL.......
Motochick good points but thats not new - partner/wife etc has always presented jealousies and in the paddock heck what do you expect LOL......
Motochick good points but thats not new - partner/wife etc has always presented jealousies and in the paddock heck what do you expect LOL......
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You are right Frizz, I remember him saying this, and he added he might even leave the sport over it. I remember it because when he did say this it created a bit of a firestorm around here.
We don't buddy, but certainly much will be said on the subject (rightly or wrongly), especially if he were to leave early. Hence my opening post on the thread. Where I said: "...his legacy will be debated, just like now Rossi's is being debated. I ‘suspect’ if he does leave early, it will reflect just how harsh his [Stoner] fans are now proposing Rossi's legacy is "tainted"." The point being that if he were to leave early, what people might say about it in response would be correlated ("reflect") to the reasons he gives. I suggest that this response would be of the same vein as those proposing Rossi's legacy is tainted, that is, I "suspect" it might be equally harsh.
Like I said: "Stoner can retire when ever he wants for what ever reason he wants. Its his life." (see my first post on the thread) But as much as you or me might want people to accept it without question and just wish him the best, it is a bit unrealistic. Especially now that many are currently hard at work “tainting” the legacy of his greatest rival (rightly or wrongly). There are many ways of looking at it my dear friend. There is a fine line between “retire” and “quit”. Who here likes a quitter? In the end, I suspect those who are going to hate Stoner will do so even if Jesus Christ himself came down from heaven and asked Stoner to retire. Some still might call it ‘throwing in the towel’. What can we do about it?
Certainly. I've gone back to edit out the word "easy" and replaced it with "may not have required supreme effort every moment of the season". I don't think every title, though all earned, have required a supreme effort every time. I think titles have all had their challenges, but the modern championship campaigns have needed increasing amounts of commitment. Do you agree? I wonder if (and we are ALL speculating here right? rightly or wrongly) Casey has looked ahead and given it some thought about the level of commitment he would need to undertake to beat guys like Lorenzo who are refocused, riding well, and on a machine that rivals his own. You know buddy, I never question his illness, nor did I question him when he revealed his arm-pump issues, so perhaps he has considered his own health and decided its too much to endure to carry on winning. I say this because (and not to reopen a massive tangent) I believe when he had his illness, it was caused by stress, a severe fitness regiment, and pressure, etc. Maybe he simply doesn’t want to go through this again and risk injury, as parenthood makes one see things in a completely new perspective.
Now has this kept any one of US from speculating? You mentioned a change in rules my be the issue bothering him, others have suggested its just contract negotiations as usual, others have suggested he doesn’t care about money, another suggested it would just be cool if he left on top, etc. (These are the sane people, just wait unit the crazies, for and against, start to speculate).
Casey also said he wouldn’t go to Japan, but he did. Resolve is relative. Last year’s title was a route by GP standards. Does that mean it was “easy”? No. But this year so far (and its early) looks to be a bit more challenging. Would you agree? So again, perhaps the new daddy has looked ahead and realized, damn, I’m going to need to be in supreme shape, focus, commit max time, and all the rest of it. And perhaps he said, you know, I don’t want to do it, its just not worth it, I’m gonna leave. Is that retiring or quitting? Sure, we all would love to simply believe the loftiest intentions, but that is also just speculation on OUR part right?
I personally haven’t had much reason to disbelieve Casey. But I also think he has sometimes said some things that he might have wanted to rephrase (well at least I hope so). He may say, you know, I just don’t like the new tires and bikes, I’m gonna retire. Then I might post, dude, Casey’s acting like a ..... (he’d never read it nor ever care). He may say, you know what, I just want to spend time with my wife and daughter and be happy. Then I might post, dude, that is very cool and smart, I totally respect and admire you for it (he’d never read it nor ever care). For the most part we are all just babbling fools when it comes to discussing riders, especially their private lives. Does he have to defend retiring? No. But you can bet people will talk about it in a positive or negative way (rightly or wrongly).
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That would depend on how one looked at it, did he retire or quit? If he retired on top, I suppose it would look legendary. But if it was perceived as quitting, then it would be infamy rather than fame. Who likes a quitter? A legend yes, a tainted legend.
Its an interesting argument. So if a rider retires so as not to lower his winning ratios, his Goathood would better be in tact? I guess Doohan was luck to leave so suddenly then. (I'm being a sarcastic .....) I'm not so sure my friend. I'm still grappling myself with it. I'm a bit conflicted with this idea that if you hang around much after you've won a but of titles, that those titles are any less bright. I've argued something entirely different about Rossi's titles (something lost of a few neobops), but I don't think I've made the case any tarnishing from hanging around after said titles.
I guess it has some neat cool factor that I don't quite understand. But its very tricky my friend. If it looks like one quit, people generally don't have kind feeling about quitters. I just hope that if he does hang up the boots, that he thinks about a good reason to tell the public or they will publish some negative words about it (rightly or wrongly). If he says he is leaving because of the rules, bikes, tires, I personally wouldn't have much respect for it (sorry if I disappoint my remaining Stoner fan friends). If he were to say, I just want to hang out with the family and go fishing with my daughter, I would say, man, this guy is to be admired and respected.
I am not conflicted at all. People keep on at a job or quit a job for all kinds of reasons. If someone else thinks it demeans earlier victories, let them.
In Rossi's case, it is easy to see why he stays, even if he isn't winning. He is popular. He thrives on attention. He wants to be 'The Guy'. His titles will never go away just because he stays on in the sport he loves after his best years are behind him. I think people are far too critical.
If we look at it logically, since he took Ducati's contract, he has netted €30M. He has been in the news - a lot. He has had the ultimate compliment paid to him by Ducati that they turned their whole philosophy of chassis design on its head, just to accommodate him.
He has a ready scapegoat - Stoner's last season on the GP10 only netted 3 wins. It's obvious that the bike is at fault. Why should he quit?
As to Stoner, he doesn't care for the popularity contest, he doesn't like crowds and the limelight - he would rather be chasing chooks on the farm back home. He also has nothing to prove, having beaten the GOAT and proven that he can ride a bad bike, better.
While it may be a marketing ploy to raise the contract stakes, I don't think anyone at HRC doubts for a second that if he set his mind to it, he would be gone. The HRC boss said as much recently.
Given Stoner's distaste, not only for CRT, but for the direction they are taking MotoGP, I think it would be an easy decision for him to make - the lovely Adriana, a nice bush block, a hot boat and time spent raising his daughter - or the grind of hauling a win out of a pigs ear when the new regs come in 2014?
I know what I would do...
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So he only wants a one year contract even though Honda offered two. This confirms what Stoner mentioned in an interview with Daryl Beattie before PI last year, when he admitted that its not the same as it was, he's losing the passion for racing.
Then again, whats his motivation to keep doing the same thing over and over? Good for him then, moving on to the next life challenge when the time is right. Sometimes that is the hardest thing to do, not the easiest.
Wayne Rainey once said something about holding on too tight, being too intense, winning totally dominating his life. http://www.motorcycle.com/products/wayne-rainey-his-own-story-3956.html
Then again, whats his motivation to keep doing the same thing over and over? Good for him then, moving on to the next life challenge when the time is right. Sometimes that is the hardest thing to do, not the easiest.
Wayne Rainey once said something about holding on too tight, being too intense, winning totally dominating his life. http://www.motorcycle.com/products/wayne-rainey-his-own-story-3956.html
