Stoner is better than Rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 14 2008, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To be fair to Ducati though, they never competed in the MotoGP premier class before the 4 stroke era, so any comparison with the Japs should take into account the titles won / number of years competing.
Sure, and I realised this when I made the post. I am an infrequent but reasonably successful gambler; my point was that a betting man would have regarded yamaha as far more likely than ducati to win a world championship prior to the 2007 season; if you look at the odds on offer then even after pre-season testing the bookmakers agreed with me, and rossi probably did too .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valerian @ Mar 14 2008, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>La Yamaha coming third in the Championship the year before Rossi was a different third compared to the Ducati third. Yamaha's was a going nowhere third and probably only there because Suzuki and Kwak were no good whereas the Ducati was clearly a good bike and if not for injury of Capirossi would have finished a lot higher.
I agree that capirossi would have got close in 2006 if he had not crashed, and I have also said on this or another thread that excessive triumphalism by stoner fans is a blight, particularly vs rossi.

However to follow your argument further and using only recent history, capirossi wasn't injured in 2007, and where did he finish in the championship on the same bike as stoner?

Geez, Are we doomed to have one of these threads after every race?

Utterly worthless!


Who is better? Only Jesus Christ!

NOTE TO MODS: PLEASE MERGE ALL THESE ....... THREADS

1.Stoner is better than Rossi
2. Stoner is the new Doohan
3. Stoner is NOT the new Doohan
4. If Stoner...wins will he get respect

5. AND EVERY OTHER STUPID ....... THREAD THAT TRIES TO CONVINCE US WHO IS BETTER! (God knows there will be about 10,000 of these before the season ends.)


I HAVE AN IDEA: JUST PIN THESE THREADS UP ON TOP, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GO BACK AND BACK TO THEM ALL ....... SEASON, THIS WAY WE WON'T HAVE A NEW THREAD EVERY 5 MINUTES TRYING TO CONVINCE US WHO THE .... IS BETTER!

LET THEM DEBATE WHO THE HELL IS BETTER STONER VS ROSSI TO DEATH. MAYBE THIS WAY THEY CAN KEEP ALL OF THE ........ IN ONE PLACE!


PIN UP THIS THREAD
PIN UP THIS THREAD
PIN UP THIS THREAD!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 14 2008, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who is better? Only Jesus Christ!
Are you sure?

I think dorna are responsible for this, as they are for most ills in motogp. There should not be a 3 week gap between races this early in the season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 15 2008, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who is better? Only Jesus Christ!
I think Stoner is better!

Ultimately, who is the better rider is at the heart of any discussion about Motogp? Since the rider brings so much to the party as compared to other motorsports, whether a rider has this tyre or that tyre or is on this bike or that is less important relatively than who the rider is. The rider is the most important thing in Motogp. Therefore these types of discussions will continue.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 14 2008, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Geez, Are we doomed to have one of these threads after every race?

Utterly worthless!


Who is better? Only Jesus Christ!

NOTE TO MODS: PLEASE MERGE ALL THESE ....... THREADS

1.Stoner is better than Rossi
2. Stoner is the new Doohan
3. Stoner is NOT the new Doohan
4. If Stoner...wins will he get respect

5. AND EVERY OTHER STUPID ....... THREAD THAT TRIES TO CONVINCE US WHO IS BETTER! (God knows there will be about 10,000 of these before the season ends.)


I HAVE AN IDEA: JUST PIN THESE THREADS UP ON TOP, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GO BACK AND BACK TO THEM ALL ....... SEASON, THIS WAY WE WON'T HAVE A NEW THREAD EVERY 5 MINUTES TRYING TO CONVINCE US WHO THE .... IS BETTER!

LET THEM DEBATE WHO THE HELL IS BETTER STONER VS ROSSI TO DEATH. MAYBE THIS WAY THEY CAN KEEP ALL OF THE ........ IN ONE PLACE!


PIN UP THIS THREAD
PIN UP THIS THREAD
PIN UP THIS THREAD!!!
i got to agree, normally the threads like this wouyld be merged but because there is so so many and every other thread has been infected to end the same its imposable.

i think were all a bit tired of this .... now, surly theres stoner forums dedicated to this .... as there are rossi forums, .... off and post it there i say !!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 14 2008, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i got to agree, normally the threads like this wouyld be merged but because there is so so many and every other thread has been infected to end the same its imposable.

i think were all a bit tired of this .... now, surly theres stoner forums dedicated to this .... as there are rossi forums, .... off and post it there i say !!
Cheer up roger, at least there are almost universally positive comments (as there should be) about james toseland from persons of all religious affiliations.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 14 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Cheer up roger, at least there are almost universally positive comments (as there should be) about james toseland from persons of all religious affiliations.
mabe ive just been here too long.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 14 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>mabe ive just been here too long.
A few wins by riders other than rossi or stoner might quieten these threads down, but perhaps not as much as several wins by rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valerian @ Mar 14 2008, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ultimately, who is the better rider is at the heart of any discussion about Motogp? Since the rider brings so much to the party as compared to other motorsports, whether a rider has this tyre or that tyre or is on this bike or that is less important relatively than who the rider is. The rider is the most important thing in Motogp. Therefore these types of discussions will continue.
Not true!

There are many threads that have been able to discuss aspects about the competition between Stoner and Rossi, that do NOT necessarily turn into, "WHO IS BETTER".

But this one, like many others, tries to answer the question, WHO IS BETTER, as if there is an actual answer some where. Sure I've been suckered into trying myself to answer this, but ...., after about the 18th thread on this, then it gets to be a meaningless shallow debate in the attempt at disguised (poorly at that) people simply rooting for their guy, nothing more.

Who is better Stoner or Rossi?
Who is better Stoner or Doohan?
Who is better Stoner or Rossi, Doohan, Ago, Kenny Roberts Snr, Wayne Rainey, Freddy Spencer, etc etc.
Who the hell knows the answers to such questions?

...., for God sakes, let Stoner win a few before we go comparing him to guys that won multiple titles. (Before I get the hate mail, yes, Stoner has impressed and devastated last year, and it looks like he is poised to continue that, its a joy to watch, though I wish it were my guy).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 14 2008, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i got to agree, normally the threads like this wouyld be merged but because there is so so many and every other thread has been infected to end the same its imposable.

i think were all a bit tired of this .... now, surly theres stoner forums dedicated to this .... as there are rossi forums, .... off and post it there i say !!
+1000000000

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 14 2008, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>at least there are almost universally positive comments (as there should be) about james toseland from persons of all religious affiliations.
Who is better, Toesland or Stoner?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 14 2008, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>mabe ive just been here too long.
Ya think? As of this moment, 6650 posts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 14 2008, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ya think? As of this moment, 6650 posts.
6000 spent arguing with you old friend

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 14 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not true!

There are many threads that have been able to discuss aspects about the competition between Stoner and Rossi, that do NOT necessarily turn into, "WHO IS BETTER".

But this one, like many others, tries to answer the question, WHO IS BETTER, as if there is an actual answer some where. Sure I've been suckered into trying myself to answer this, but ...., after about the 18th thread on this, then it gets to be a meaningless shallow debate in the attempt at disguised (poorly at that) people simply rooting for their guy, nothing more.

Who is better Stoner or Rossi?
Who is better Stoner or Doohan?
Who is better Stoner or Rossi, Doohan, Ago, Kenny Roberts Snr, Wayne Rainey, Freddy Spencer, etc etc.
Who the hell knows the answers to such questions?

...., for God sakes, let Stoner win a few before we go comparing him to guys that won multiple titles. (Before I get the hate mail, yes, Stoner has impressed and devastated last year, and it looks like he is poised to continue that, its a joy to watch, though I wish it were my guy).

Well, of course, no one knows the answers to these questions. There are no answers, just opinions on this matter. I agree that when people start a thread to praise one rider and damn another purely from one side of the argument it's a bit pointless. Comparing one rider to another dispassionatley can be interesting however. Why is Melandri rubbish on the Ducati compared to the wonder that is Stoner? Still early days. How about Rossi out psyching Gibernau and Biaggi? Wasn't that great!

For me, Motogp is about the riders. Not the teams or the bikes, beautiful though they maybe, it's about the duel between men (some hardly men age-wise) at stupid speeds. So, for me, it's about who's the better rider? End of.

Others will disagree and I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Steve

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valerian @ Mar 14 2008, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, of course, no one knows the answers to these questions. There are no answers, just opinions on this matter. I agree that when people start a thread to praise one rider and damn another purely from one side of the argument it's a bit pointless. Comparing one rider to another dispassionatley can be interesting however. Why is Melandri rubbish on the Ducati compared to the wonder that is Stoner? Still early days. How about Rossi out psyching Gibernau and Biaggi? Wasn't that great!

For me, Motogp is about the riders. Not the teams or the bikes, beautiful though they maybe, it's about the duel between men (some hardly men age-wise) at stupid speeds. So, for me, it's about who's the better rider? End of.

Others will disagree and I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Steve

I see your point however there is already a few threads that seem to imply the same topic so to speak. All of the threads need to be combined into a thread called who is currently the best rider or else I am going to start my own thread called "Is Nicky better than Pedro" (just to really piss of my boy Junkie )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 13 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another Statistic ...

Since Stoner has been in motogp 511 points against Rossi's 493 ..... so he must have surpassed Rossi on that score at Qatar
I realise that you can prove anything with statistics, but I was wondering where you got your numbers for this one from.

I make it 511 for Stoner (119 + 367 + 25) to 499 for Rossi (247 + 241 + 11)

Another interesting one is to take Stoner's 2006,7 seasons & first race from 08 against Rossi's 2000,1 & 1st race from 02

Stoner .. 119 + 367 + 25 = 511
Rossi .... 209 + 325 + 25 = 559

plus there were only 825 points avail to Rossi in those 33 races (16 per season in 2000/1) whereas there were 900 available to Stoner (17 races in 06, 18 in 07)

but rossi wasnt racing agianst the best rider of the last 5 years. i.e doohan.

whereas stoner is still battling aginst the champion in the last 5 years. rossi.

take out rossi last season and stoner would of won at least 3 more races???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 15 2008, 07:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but rossi wasnt racing agianst the best rider of the last 5 years. i.e doohan.

whereas stoner is still battling aginst the champion in the last 5 years. rossi.

take out rossi last season and stoner would of won at least 3 more races???
Boy are you going to get flamed for that one.

You forget that Hayden won in 2006??

As far as removing Rossi, in the races Rossi finished 1st, Stoner finished 5th, 4th, 2nd and 3rd so he would likely have won 1 more race, not 3.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Mar 15 2008, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I realise that you can prove anything with statistics, but I was wondering where you got your numbers for this one from.

I make it 511 for Stoner (119 + 367 + 25) to 499 for Rossi (247 + 241 + 11)

Another interesting one is to take Stoner's 2006,7 seasons & first race from 08 against Rossi's 2000,1 & 1st race from 02

Stoner .. 119 + 367 + 25 = 511
Rossi .... 209 + 325 + 25 = 559

plus there were only 825 points avail to Rossi in those 33 races (16 per season in 2000/1) whereas there were 900 available to Stoner (17 races in 06, 18 in 07)

I understand completely that you guys are only having a bit of fun here with the stats but I'd like to add into the mix a reminder that Rossi walked straight into his first 500cc season in the year 2000, basically riding Mick Doohan's factory NSR ( regardless of the sponsor painted on the side ).

Along with this he also had the majority of Mick's mechanics & team plus help from Mick himself, who would've been stoked to help his new charge into a position of beating Alex Criville from the very start! ( Which completely mentally destroyed Alex in 2000 I think! )

Rossi's transition onto the very well sorted & relatively well behaved 2000 NSR ( which had won the previous 6 straight championships ) was probably just a tad easier than Stoner's first go into the 990's, on a satellite machine & b grade rubber from Michelin.

The following transition for Rossi in 2002 was onto the awesome RC211V which has been unanimously considered to be the "ultimate" bike to have in the 990 era & which he made made effective use of in both '02 & '03.

Vale in this regard had easily the same technical advantages at his disposal during these years as what Stoner arguably does now!