Stoner is better than Rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 12 2008, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>cant see the difference then?

jumkie: rossi wouldnt come out and say the tyre went that would make him look like he is lying.....
so i suppose when he said:

"In the first laps we go well, but then the bike starts moving a lot"
" but I'm slow around the corners and I struggle"
"it happened in the warm-up already, when I have so much grip at the beginning, I know I have to pay for it a bit later. We changed the tyre compared to this morning, but the problems remained the same"

nothing to do with grip then?

lets get to jerez and see what happens???

Yes I see a difference. The tire appears to have some wear; however, I think we can hardly base a definitive conclusion solely on this picture. But here is the difference I see in the issue. Is the tire the issue here, or rather the tire management and coupled with perhaps not optimum set up?

First of all, answer this question (or anybody else). Are you saying the tire, itself, underperformed? (Its the same question I asked before, so lets start here, and depending on what your answer is, then we can maybe, or maybe not debate the opinion).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 12 2008, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes it is a chewed up tire, lol @ its the light, look again...

http://images.motogp.com/en/motogp/popup_1...076.htm?lang=en

and stoner tire?? same corner but still the light?

http://images.motogp.com/en/motogp/popup_1...102.htm?lang=en

http://images.motogp.com/en/motogp/popup_1...116.htm?lang=en

and again at the end...good tyre

http://images.motogp.com/en/motogp/popup_1...066.htm?lang=en

cant see the difference then?

jumkie: rossi wouldnt come out and say the tyre went that would make him look like he is lying.....
so i suppose when he said:

"In the first laps we go well, but then the bike starts moving a lot"
" but I'm slow around the corners and I struggle"
"it happened in the warm-up already, when I have so much grip at the beginning, I know I have to pay for it a bit later. We changed the tyre compared to this morning, but the problems remained the same"

nothing to do with grip then?

lets get to jerez and see what happens???


Rossi knew he was outgunned and went out on Q's just so he could look good for a couple of laps.

Seriously though,on a cold night with tires that are known to last a whole race,HOW THE .... DO YOU BURN ONE UP IN 5 LAPS when everybody else is doing just fine on theirs.You can spin up a tire on a previous corner and make it look like that but it doesnt mean the tire is shot.Im going to wait and see what he does at Jerez before i make up my mind weather he has what it takes to win a title again.If he doesnt have a mechanical failure and still doesnt podium,the writing is on the wall.If he podiums but still finishes 5-10 seconds back,the writing is on the wall.Casey can take a huge step in disposing of Rossi and his mistique with a dominating win and then set his sights on mentally ... whipping Lorenzo and Pedro.You Rossi fans dont want to believe it but he can be mentally broke and that time is now and he knows it.He has to ride like there is no tomorrow in the next race out.

hmmm.. the tire theory is interesting and plausible.. does anyone know what tire compounds Rossi and Stoner were using? were they different? Or did Yamah;s big bang engine just result in chewing up more rubber?

Also, given all the fanfare around Rossi dissing the Michelins last year and insisting on switching to Stones, he has no where to go now. If it was a bad set of tires at Qatar, he just has to suck it up and hope for the best next time. Any bad mouthing (and maybe Bridgestone has a cluase in the contracts that prevents him) of the stones and Bridgestone may say hasta la vista baby..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 12 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hmmm.. the tire theory is interesting and plausible.. does anyone know what tire compounds Rossi and Stoner were using?

Also, given all the fanfare around Rossi dissing the Michelins last year and insisting on switching to Stones, he has no where to go now. If it was a bad set of tires at Qatar, he just has to suck it up and hope for the best next time. Any bad mouthing (and maybe Bridgestone has a cluase in the contracts that prevents him) of the stones and Bridgestone may say hasta la vista baby..

stoner wasnt even using this years tires he used last years because he knew when testing them that he wouldnt get the times he needed to win, i posted a translation from a news site about it in another thread.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 12 2008, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So Babel is now photoshoping pics to prove his point? Haha. (jk)

Oh my lord, it a tire failure, the tire is shredding, its coming apart, its disintegrating! I was wondering how long it would take before we called on the “tire card.”

Let me ask you something my dear friend (I suppose you can pass on this question to the mystery person who sent you this picture), have there been any reports by Rossi or the team indicating that there was a tire performance issue? (Read my question very closely before you answer).
1. nice try but it wasn't babel

2. a picture speaks a thousand words my friend

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 12 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi knew he was outgunned and went out on Q's just so he could look good for a couple of laps.
:quality povol l:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 12 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi knew he was outgunned and went out on Q's just so he could look good for a couple of laps.

Seriously though,on a cold night with tires that are known to last a whole race,HOW THE .... DO YOU BURN ONE UP IN 5 LAPS when everybody else is doing just fine on theirs.You can spin up a tire on a previous corner and make it look like that but it doesnt mean the tire is shot.Im going to wait and see what he does at Jerez before i make up my mind weather he has what it takes to win a title again.If he doesnt have a mechanical failure and still doesnt podium,the writing is on the wall.If he podiums but still finishes 5-10 seconds back,the writing is on the wall.Casey can take a huge step in disposing of Rossi and his mistique with a dominating win and then set his sights on mentally ... whipping Lorenzo and Pedro.You Rossi fans dont want to believe it but he can be mentally broke and that time is now and he knows it.He has to ride like there is no tomorrow in the next race out.

even if he doesnt win next round it doesnt mean sqwat, hes not just gonna use different tires on a bike and win, he used michelins for so many years the stones are alien to the rider and alien to the bike, its a untested combination in the early stages at the moment so dont write him off yet,i at the moment are looking for a gradual change in performance over the season, anyway there could be more factors than a tyre like jumkie pointed out here:

"Is the tire the issue here, or rather the tire management and coupled with perhaps not optimum set up?"

this race could have been the setup or the tyre or both, we need a few more races before we can decide how well he is performing at if he still has what it takes.

I think it's in a thread here somewhere, but Stoner decided to run with last years tyres after the test a week before the race. Stoner has had a year with Ducati and the Bridgestones, so has it over Rossi in that department.

The writing was on the wall for Rossi when the new tyre rule came in. No more overnight specials, and it is probably harder for Michelin to to give him the best tyres. The new tyre rules have brought Rossi back to the field a bit.

I am not completely happy with the new rules. I think the teams should be able to choose their tyres after the first days practice, so theat they have a chance to ..... the current track conditions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2008, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. nice try but it wasn't babel

2. a picture speaks a thousand words my friend
Ok, maybe Victor then. (Wait, he would have sent you video--scratch that).

Pictures do say a lot, but when interpreted wrong, the thousands words only serve to make the backpedaling lengthier.

Will somebody please answer the question I posed.

Stoner is a very talented rider but i think that Rossi is the greatest motorbike rider ever.. This season aswell as last he never had much competition and now he has to work hard for victory on a under achieving bike.

Rossi will be champion again and i dont think Stoner will ever win 7 World Championships.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 12 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>even if he doesnt win next round it doesnt mean sqwat, hes not just gonna use different tires on a bike and win, he used michelins for so many years the stones are alien to the rider and alien to the bike, its a untested combination in the early stages at the moment so dont write him off yet,i at the moment are looking for a gradual change in performance over the season, anyway there could be more factors than a tyre like jumkie pointed out here:

"Is the tire the issue here, or rather the tire management and coupled with perhaps not optimum set up?"

this race could have been the setup or the tyre or both, we need a few more races before we can decide how well he is performing at if he still has what it takes.

I didnt say he had to win,i said he has to be competitive.After last year,Rossi was in shock of what Stoner did to him in 07.In his mind,it had to be something besides him or Stoner that was the difference.He made some power moves in the off season KNOWING that it would be the difference.It couldnt be Stoner.Well,now we are into the 08 season and right out of the chute he gets smacked up side the head by Stoner,only harder.And to top it off,he has rookies bitching his ... on the last lap.He has to be a little fragile mentally at this point,the way he used to make Gravelplow and Biatchi feel.Self doubt is creeping in.It will be interesting to see how he handles it.Will he lash out and make excuses or will we see what made him a 7 time WC.

Well all that tyre talk sure proves that in the setup side of things Stoner is better than everyone else out there.

Rossi even picked too soft a compound in a desperate attempt to try and get tpo the front early and maybe hold em off, that why we had the Rossi lead freight train early on and then riders got past him one by one.

Valentino was nowhere in the Qatar test and was still struggling with grip on Friday night.
All of a sudden on Saturday he was in the 1.55's on race tyres when he had been unable to do so previously in the cool night temps. perhaps the setup that gave him more grip worked the tyres too hard and just didn't last the race.

From Autosport

"We knew it would be a tough race," continued Rossi. "I had hoped to get on the podium, and I tried to keep Pedrosa behind in every way but there was nothing I could do.

"But as it happened in the warm-up already, when I have so much grip at the beginning, I know I have to pay for it a bit later. We changed the tyre compared to this morning, but the problems remained the same, so there's something we have to do differently.

I think it might be just the cool temps that left him scratching his head on the stones.
Jerez will be a different story although it's usually a good Michelin track.

Stoner started in 2006 so up to date he has 11 wins ....

In that time Rossi has had nine wins .....

So in the last 36 GP's Stoner has 11 wins ...... Rossi 9 ...... yeah looks like Stoner has been better than Rossi since he came in!!


Statistics

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 13 2008, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner wasnt even using this years tires he used last years because he knew when testing them that he wouldnt get the times he needed to win, i posted a translation from a news site about it in another thread.


why the cheater!! was he!?? ..... by golly next he'll be doing the retro thing, when he gets tired of winning so much, and he'll start coming out on a fine 93 vintage hardright soft left or something like that!! The nerve of him !!

Last years tyres eh!? Bet he gets them at a superceded sale too !! just to save Ducati some money!! The Cad!!

well phooey on him I say!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Mar 12 2008, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"But as it happened in the warm-up already, when I have so much grip at the beginning, I know I have to pay for it a bit later. We changed the tyre compared to this morning, but the problems remained the same, so there's something we have to do differently.[/b]

Any questions?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 13 2008, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Any questions?


Crikey Sarto posted the laptimes in this thread
http://www.powerslide.net/forum/Rossi-Rues...219#entry117219

and with Rossi saying he had grip during the warm up lap ...... I'm beginning to think they actually put quallies on!!?

Whats going on there!!?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 13 2008, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Crikey Sarto posted the laptimes in this thread
http://www.powerslide.net/forum/Rossi-Rues...219#entry117219

and with Rossi saying he had grip during the warm up lap ...... I'm beginning to think they actually put quallies on!!?

Whats going on there!!?

You try to switch everything around. he did not say warm up lap. He said warm up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sam 25 @ Mar 13 2008, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner is a very talented rider but i think that Rossi is the greatest motorbike rider ever.. This season as well as last he never had much competition and now he has to work hard for victory on a under achieving bike.

Rossi will be champion again and i dont think Stoner will ever win 7 World Championships.

Hi Sam & welcome to the forum...

Unfortunately this discussion has also been done to death a number of times over the last 6 months... I know that there are many people in the world who would no doubt agree with your statement, but there an equally large number that have a different viewpoint...

Two others that come to mind without much effort are Giacomo Agostini & Micheal Doohan, but naturally there are plenty more that could legitimately lay claim to the best ever title.

We'll all just have to agree to disagree I guess!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 13 2008, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Any questions?

Jumkie if you read the whole paragraph you'll understand that he was talking about the warm up they all get that runs for 25 minutes the same day of the race. Its usually 4 hours before the race. He specifically said he changed tires after the warm up but the problem remain.