I'm a bit devided on this one. I do agree with those who say that races this year has been kind of boring and at some races the difference has been huge at some races. On the other hand I want the tire war and the spin off on road tires. I voted against control tires, hoping michelin will solve their problems next year.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Sep 24 2007, 08:30 PM) [snapback]93028[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, technology is a part of it, but as I have said before I never want a road bike with TC.
So because you don't want the best possible technology the entire racing world should lag in the past??
Yes, technology is a part of it, but as I have said before I never want a road bike with TC.
So because you don't want the best possible technology the entire racing world should lag in the past??
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Its a prototype racing series.
When a manufacturer has an advantage then they lead for awhile until everyone catches up and then we see the next big leap in development.
In SBK its the TC, some people have better than others.
In MGP its the tires right now.
As soon as we get a more level playing field all the complaining will stop.
Up until last year you needed a Honda to win (except for Rossi and the occassional Ducati win).
Now this year all the other manufacturers caught up/Honda ...... up.(depends on your opinion)
It will all balance out and then another breakthrough will come along and make us start talking like this again.
When a manufacturer has an advantage then they lead for awhile until everyone catches up and then we see the next big leap in development.
In SBK its the TC, some people have better than others.
In MGP its the tires right now.
As soon as we get a more level playing field all the complaining will stop.
Up until last year you needed a Honda to win (except for Rossi and the occassional Ducati win).
Now this year all the other manufacturers caught up/Honda ...... up.(depends on your opinion)
It will all balance out and then another breakthrough will come along and make us start talking like this again.
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(machmanzx10r @ Sep 26 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]93212[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
bridgestone have gone on record as saying they don't
want a control tyre in moto gp.if you a control tyre,what next a one make series.ohh shove it, lets all race the r6 cup and be done with it.
congratulations to ducati,i'm a yamaha man.ya don't chuck ya toys out of the pram when ya not winning.you come back fighting and thats what
the rest of the teams have to do.control tyre(tire) my arse.
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
bridgestone have gone on record as saying they don't
want a control tyre in moto gp.if you a control tyre,what next a one make series.ohh shove it, lets all race the r6 cup and be done with it.
congratulations to ducati,i'm a yamaha man.ya don't chuck ya toys out of the pram when ya not winning.you come back fighting and thats what
the rest of the teams have to do.control tyre(tire) my arse.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(machmanzx10r @ Sep 26 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]93212[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
Using a new manufacturer the lap times are gonna be way off slower than wsk.
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
Using a new manufacturer the lap times are gonna be way off slower than wsk.
Why do teams stick to one brand of tires during the season? they should keep their options open.. Show up at the tracks run a few laps on say Bridgestone and Michelin and then choose which ones they want to use on race day -- just like they choose which compound they want to use. they may have to pay more for their tires. But, it will be well worth it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Why do teams stick to one brand of tires during the season? they should keep their options open.. Show up at the tracks run a few laps on say Bridgestone and Michelin and then choose which ones they want to use on race day -- just like they choose which compound they want to use. they may have to pay more for their tires. But, it will be well worth it.
1st because they have a contract with a brand!
2nd it can't be done, Bridgestone is producing as many tires as they can (they refused to supply HRC) so if at a certain track everyone wanted Bstone there wouldn't be enough for all. And the other brands with have a pile of new tires unused they would have to dump.
3rd bikes are designed to work with a certain brand of tyres, you just cannot fit a pair of Michelins or Dunlops in a Suzuki or Kawa and expect it to work OK.
1st because they have a contract with a brand!
2nd it can't be done, Bridgestone is producing as many tires as they can (they refused to supply HRC) so if at a certain track everyone wanted Bstone there wouldn't be enough for all. And the other brands with have a pile of new tires unused they would have to dump.
3rd bikes are designed to work with a certain brand of tyres, you just cannot fit a pair of Michelins or Dunlops in a Suzuki or Kawa and expect it to work OK.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(machmanzx10r @ Sep 27 2007, 02:01 AM) [snapback]93212[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
As far as I know only Americans spell it tire instead of tyre.
People aren't spelling it wrong it's an international thing.
As for the rest, your probably right. If everyone has to start a fresh with tyres then at least nobody can claim advantage.
If Dorna decides that it is time for a control tire (spell it right, damn it!!!) I think they should use a tire that is NOT in the series right now. That way all the teams and the tire manu. will have to start fresh. Everyone would be on a level playing field. Then you would see who was the best at getting their bikes set up, tire management and race management.
That should make for an interesting year!!!!!
As far as I know only Americans spell it tire instead of tyre.
People aren't spelling it wrong it's an international thing.
As for the rest, your probably right. If everyone has to start a fresh with tyres then at least nobody can claim advantage.
Guys.... I could really care less if there is a tire war or not....I just want to see some great racing. The only thing I am 100% against, is TC. I really wish that would go away or at the very least have it severaly cut back in some way.
I know that the rest of the world spells words differently than we do! It was a joke!!!
I know that the rest of the world spells words differently than we do! It was a joke!!!
At the end of the day dorna wil do whats best for them and the sport.
If they think moto gp has suffered this year then they wil bring in a control tyre.
When theyre talking about having a decision by the end of october it sounds like a definite possibility.
If they think moto gp has suffered this year then they wil bring in a control tyre.
When theyre talking about having a decision by the end of october it sounds like a definite possibility.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Teomolca @ Sep 26 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]93250[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
1st because they have a contract with a brand!
2nd it can't be done, Bridgestone is producing as many tires as they can (they refused to supply HRC) so if at a certain track everyone wanted Bstone there wouldn't be enough for all. And the other brands with have a pile of new tires unused they would have to dump.
3rd bikes are designed to work with a certain brand of tyres, you just cannot fit a pair of Michelins or Dunlops in a Suzuki or Kawa and expect it to work OK.
#1 is easily fixable. The manufacturers don't need to sign exclisive contracts.
#2 Its not thet Bridgestone cannot produce the tires. They want Michelin to stick around, so that they can beat them. Plus, they seem to want to be loyal to the teams that signed up with them when Michelin was Top Dog.
#3 . If what you are saing is true, then honda could not have started building the 800cc bike until Michelin built the tires first? How would Michelin even begin to fathom what the demands of the new bike would be?
Even of there are variances between the brands of tires,IMHO, are not significant enough and could ironed out with suspension settings. BTW, tires are designed for the chassis/engine, not the other way around. Each tire manufacturers make differenr carcasses and cost them with different compounds. A range of tires is made available for the manufacturer to choose from.
1st because they have a contract with a brand!
2nd it can't be done, Bridgestone is producing as many tires as they can (they refused to supply HRC) so if at a certain track everyone wanted Bstone there wouldn't be enough for all. And the other brands with have a pile of new tires unused they would have to dump.
3rd bikes are designed to work with a certain brand of tyres, you just cannot fit a pair of Michelins or Dunlops in a Suzuki or Kawa and expect it to work OK.
#1 is easily fixable. The manufacturers don't need to sign exclisive contracts.
#2 Its not thet Bridgestone cannot produce the tires. They want Michelin to stick around, so that they can beat them. Plus, they seem to want to be loyal to the teams that signed up with them when Michelin was Top Dog.
#3 . If what you are saing is true, then honda could not have started building the 800cc bike until Michelin built the tires first? How would Michelin even begin to fathom what the demands of the new bike would be?
Even of there are variances between the brands of tires,IMHO, are not significant enough and could ironed out with suspension settings. BTW, tires are designed for the chassis/engine, not the other way around. Each tire manufacturers make differenr carcasses and cost them with different compounds. A range of tires is made available for the manufacturer to choose from.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Sep 25 2007, 07:35 AM) [snapback]93087[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So because you don't want the best possible technology the entire racing world should lag in the past??
I'm with you.
I HATE traction control and I hope it is banned in the near future
BUT
it is an infant technology in motorcycles and I think it needs to stick around for another 5-10 years before there is talk of banning it.
The technology is too important for manufacturers and in the production markets. I agree it should be off whenever you are racing or pushing your skill and bike control.
How nice would it be though, when you're caught out in the rain unexpectedly and you can just hit the TC button and crank up the sensitivity and know that half your crashing worries are gone?
So because you don't want the best possible technology the entire racing world should lag in the past??
I'm with you.
I HATE traction control and I hope it is banned in the near future
BUT
it is an infant technology in motorcycles and I think it needs to stick around for another 5-10 years before there is talk of banning it.
The technology is too important for manufacturers and in the production markets. I agree it should be off whenever you are racing or pushing your skill and bike control.
How nice would it be though, when you're caught out in the rain unexpectedly and you can just hit the TC button and crank up the sensitivity and know that half your crashing worries are gone?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 27 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]93282[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
At the end of the day dorna wil do whats best for them and the sport.
If they think moto gp has suffered this year then they wil bring in a control tyre.
When theyre talking about having a decision by the end of october it sounds like a definite possibility.
I thought it was interesting what Moody said at the last round. He said in his experience for them to announce they're having meetings means it's something they want or is going to happen.
At the end of the day dorna wil do whats best for them and the sport.
If they think moto gp has suffered this year then they wil bring in a control tyre.
When theyre talking about having a decision by the end of october it sounds like a definite possibility.
I thought it was interesting what Moody said at the last round. He said in his experience for them to announce they're having meetings means it's something they want or is going to happen.
i also dont want control tyres and really want TC to go away...
but with the apparent "speed" of this decision and the time frame in which all these meetings and proposals have happened, it seems to me that the outcome has already been decided and this is now just the stuff Dorna has to do to make it legal...
.......s...
but with the apparent "speed" of this decision and the time frame in which all these meetings and proposals have happened, it seems to me that the outcome has already been decided and this is now just the stuff Dorna has to do to make it legal...
.......s...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Sep 27 2007, 02:30 PM) [snapback]93321[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
#1 is easily fixable. The manufacturers don't need to sign exclisive contracts.
#2 Its not thet Bridgestone cannot produce the tires. They want Michelin to stick around, so that they can beat them. Plus, they seem to want to be loyal to the teams that signed up with them when Michelin was Top Dog.
#3 . If what you are saing is true, then honda could not have started building the 800cc bike until Michelin built the tires first? How would Michelin even begin to fathom what the demands of the new bike would be?
Even of there are variances between the brands of tires,IMHO, are not significant enough and could ironed out with suspension settings. BTW, tires are designed for the chassis/engine, not the other way around. Each tire manufacturers make differenr carcasses and cost them with different compounds. A range of tires is made available for the manufacturer to choose from.
there's a lot you're missing.
1. you need a contract. there's no way you can do business in a market like the motoGP circus (or any racing series) with just a handshake or race-by-race agreements. it's just physically impossible.
2. bridgestone is a company that wants to do what's best for them. while it's nice to think that they want to be loyal to existing customers, it's just not true. if bridgestone does an analysis that says it would be better for their company $-wise to be a sole supplier in motoGP, then that's exactly what they will do.
3. a bike absolutely has to be set up around the tires. if you ask any tuner or mechanic, he will tell you that. you make your tire decision, then once you have your choice of rubber, you start setting up the bike around your choice. you can't put a set of dunlops on your GSX-R, set the bike up, and then swap those tires out for michelins; it will totally screw up the handling of the bike.
#1 is easily fixable. The manufacturers don't need to sign exclisive contracts.
#2 Its not thet Bridgestone cannot produce the tires. They want Michelin to stick around, so that they can beat them. Plus, they seem to want to be loyal to the teams that signed up with them when Michelin was Top Dog.
#3 . If what you are saing is true, then honda could not have started building the 800cc bike until Michelin built the tires first? How would Michelin even begin to fathom what the demands of the new bike would be?
Even of there are variances between the brands of tires,IMHO, are not significant enough and could ironed out with suspension settings. BTW, tires are designed for the chassis/engine, not the other way around. Each tire manufacturers make differenr carcasses and cost them with different compounds. A range of tires is made available for the manufacturer to choose from.
there's a lot you're missing.
1. you need a contract. there's no way you can do business in a market like the motoGP circus (or any racing series) with just a handshake or race-by-race agreements. it's just physically impossible.
2. bridgestone is a company that wants to do what's best for them. while it's nice to think that they want to be loyal to existing customers, it's just not true. if bridgestone does an analysis that says it would be better for their company $-wise to be a sole supplier in motoGP, then that's exactly what they will do.
3. a bike absolutely has to be set up around the tires. if you ask any tuner or mechanic, he will tell you that. you make your tire decision, then once you have your choice of rubber, you start setting up the bike around your choice. you can't put a set of dunlops on your GSX-R, set the bike up, and then swap those tires out for michelins; it will totally screw up the handling of the bike.
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A control tire will make for one less excuse for the losers. I'm all for it. And puhleese! All this bitching about how street tires will suffer from lack of competition at the GP level has to stop. I guarantee there aren't three people on this forum who ever ride out into the chicken strips and definitely, ain't no-one here is riding past the limits of the current top-of-the-line sticky street tires - not on the street they ain't. That's just a lot of jock-strap wishful thinking. Issues regarding tire profiles specifically designed with a particular manufacturer were not an unsolvable barrier for control tires used for all the manufacturers in WSBK. Why wouldn't this issue be resolved simarily in Moto GP. If four or five makers of 250 bikes with different frames and different engines can make it work - then Moto GP teams can adjust too and then they can focus more on the bikes and less time whining about unfair tire advantages.
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