Soup Interview Casey Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 20 2010, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess that's why you're such a great Rossi bopper--both are whiners and cry babies. At what point did you transition from being a fan to being a cult-worshipper so tied up in his persona that you have no ability to reason?
I don't think anyone here miss who is actually too tied up in Rossi Jumkie
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi ...... up that move and Stoner's quick reactions avoided disaster.
Well .... up is a bit too hard for a move that pushed him a few cm outside the track on the exit after a blind entry but none the less got the job done. Some even consider it a brave and near perfect move considering the line and entry speed, but that's details. The move were definitely not perfect.
Besides, just like another guy that has a habit too lose out to Rossi in a hard fight Stoner lost his head and pushed too hard to get around. A colder rider would have held back ever so slightly and accelerated out of that turn underneath Rossi. Where have we seen that before? Ahh, Jerez wasn't it?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Every time Rossi has been crowded, that other rider has been vilified. That's why Max Biaggi was run out of the sport, because when he could, he wouldn't back down to Rossi.
Rewriting history is ok when half of the members can't remember, is that so?
You must be smoking some serious .... over there J. Max vilified himself thoroughly by his constant whining, demands and declining results. The general impression was that he did think he was the emperor of Rome. A bit too much for most employers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 20 2010, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well .... up is a bit too hard for a move that pushed him a few cm outside the track on the exit after a blind entry but none the less got the job done. Some even consider it a brave and near perfect move considering the line and entry speed, but that's details. The move were definitely not perfect.
Besides, just like another guy that has a habit too lose out to Rossi in a hard fight Stoner lost his head and pushed too hard to get around. A colder rider would have held back ever so slightly and accelerated out of that turn underneath Rossi. Where have we seen that before? Ahh, Jerez wasn't it?
It was certainly a brilliant save. I am not even sure there is a rule in gp bike racing as there is in car racing (in the case of the corkscrew at least) about gaining an advantage by going off track; if so I don't recall it ever being employed, possibly because it is rather difficult to gain an advantage by doing so. In most cases an excursion like rossi's at the corkscrew would result in the bike being put down or at the very least slowing considerably to stay upright.

Nevertheless whilst I agree stoner made a tactical error rossi was not totally controlled; his only alternative possibility may well have been to slide down into the fence but he relied on stoner, who was on the racing line where he was entitled to be, moving to avoid a collision on his re-entry to the tarmac. If stoner had maintained position and there had been a collision I don't think the stewards would have had any grounds to go after stoner. If as some have said their respective positions in the corkscrew were due to stoner bumping rossi immediately prior to the corkscrew this would put a different slant on the matter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 20 2010, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi ...... up that move and Stoner's quick reactions avoided disaster. Every time Rossi has been crowded, that other rider has been vilified. That's why Max Biaggi was run out of the sport, because when he could, he wouldn't back down to Rossi. Just like Lorenzo now, Rossi is actively trying to eliminate such a challenge. Only the fools are so taken by his persona and cannot see beyond the glare of their hero.
Its pretty much accepted that Vale ...... his corner entry and the whole "incident" was predicated on this ....-up... nothing new there, Jum... As for the rest of the above paragraph, those of us who can see beyond the glare realize that all that ..... is just what it takes to be a multiple title winner and to stay at the sharp end of the pack after a decade. To vilify Rossi 'cause he's a mega-successful son-of-a-.....-competitive-....... seems a trifle hypocritical for a fan of high-risk, inherently aggressive sport and, interestingly, the bolded description is strangely reminiscent of your own on-line personality...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 21 2010, 01:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nevertheless whilst I agree stoner made a tactical error rossi was not totally controlled;

How did Stoner make a tactical error?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 21 2010, 02:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was certainly a brilliant save. I am not even sure there is a rule in gp bike racing as there is in car racing (in the case of the corkscrew at least) about gaining an advantage by going off track; if so I don't recall it ever being employed, possibly because it is rather difficult to gain an advantage by doing so. In most cases an excursion like rossi's at the corkscrew would result in the bike being put down or at the very least slowing considerably to stay upright.
I don't know if the rule exist and I don't know how valid it would be in that situation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Nevertheless whilst I agree stoner made a tactical error rossi was not totally controlled; his only alternative possibility may well have been to slide down into the fence but he relied on stoner, who was on the racing line where he was entitled to be, moving to avoid a collision on his re-entry to the tarmac. If stoner had maintained position and there had been a collision I don't think the stewards would have had any grounds to go after stoner. If as some have said their respective positions in the corkscrew were due to stoner bumping rossi immediately prior to the corkscrew this would put a different slant on the matter.

I agree that Rossi were not 100% in control, as I said it was not perfect and as I see it he took the only line possible, short of throwing the bike down.
I don't know how entitled stoner were to his position on the racing line. AFAIK it's the bike in front that has right and I think Rossi were clearly in front at the time, Stoner were comming from behind as Rossi reached tarmac again, but this is really just a lot of speculation. When they both ended up as they did Stoner reacted quickly and gave way as Rossi had no other way to go and that's all good.
What I ment was that Stoner might have been able to see this comming as Rossi entered the gravel.
Instaed of pushing as hard as he could to go around rossi, Stoner could have hold back a little, letting Rossi pass out of control in front of him slowing down off power, while Stoner with lower entry speed could have finished the right hander early and been on power repassing Rossi again on the right side. But again it's nothing but speculations and a lot of ifs, but what a move that would have been.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 21 2010, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>AFAIK it's the bike in front that has right and I think Rossi were clearly in front at the time, Stoner were comming from behind as Rossi reached tarmac again, but this is really just a lot of speculation.
Cummon Fish... there is NO speculation here. Even if Rossi was leading he obviously gives this up (rule wise) when he exits the track because upon re-entering a rider MUST yield to riders on-track. These are the rules. Bold re-entries are de rigueur of course and sometimes you cannot pick your re-entry point, riders tend to make way (as Casey did) as the option is t-bone or crash... but rules is made to be broke!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 21 2010, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that Rossi were not 100% in control, as I said it was not perfect and as I see it he took the only line possible, short of throwing the bike down.
I don't know how entitled stoner were to his position on the racing line. AFAIK it's the bike in front that has right and I think Rossi were clearly in front at the time, Stoner were comming from behind as Rossi reached tarmac again, but this is really just a lot of speculation. When they both ended up as they did Stoner reacted quickly and gave way as Rossi had no other way to go and that's all good.
What I ment was that Stoner might have been able to see this comming as Rossi entered the gravel.
Instaed of pushing as hard as he could to go around rossi, Stoner could have hold back a little, letting Rossi pass out of control in front of him slowing down off power, while Stoner with lower entry speed could have finished the right hander early and been on power repassing Rossi again on the right side. But again it's nothing but speculations and a lot of ifs, but what a move that would have been.
In the end it was a racing incident and if riders are only allowed to make moves with no possibility of coming unstuck we might as well have the engineers control the bikes remotely from the pits.

You have raced , I haven't but my understanding of the convention in motor racing is that the competitor in front maintaining the right to choose his line does not extend to taking that line off track . I am mainly pointing out that stoner perhaps had some right to be miffed in the heat off the moment given that he was almost t-boned at a high speed whilst on the racing line by a rider who had to some degree missed the corner to the extent that he didn't stay on the track, and the different attitude to such manouevres by rossi as opposed to other riders. As stoner said when he did put his bike into the dirt it was his mistake but the choice was open to him to run into rossi and equally claim a "racing incident"; it would have been fairly low-speed and gained him 5 net points, but I can't imagine he would have attracted much praise for his hardness. In this thread someone brought up stoner's jerez off, at a time when the ducati was handling less well than the average horse and dray on the tight tracks; as I recall unless I am confusing it with the estoril race he was widely criticised for re-entering the track with insufficient caution despite being in control of his bike, well away from other riders having slowed down and not as I remember re-entering on the racing line. His off-track utterances/behaviour are arguably more questionable, but the only "....."" element in his on-track display at laguna seca 2008 imo were catlike reflexes in avoding collisions with rossi twice; he did pick the bike back up and manage to still beat the rest of the field fairly comfortably .

I agree with you that stoner made a tactical error at the corksrew in not giving rossi room in the first place as kevin schwantz I think said at the time; I have no concept personally as to whether he had time to make this judgement but will accept that he possibly did.

Looking at it
lets say the stewards take into account the track layout etc
there both at it hard there going left down a steep incline into the corkscrew
rossi hits the rumble strip and is on the dirt for a split second
not even time to react or get out of casey's way hes back on track

its racing

no different to MAX 2001 Suzuka
max sticks his left arm/elbow out and puts rossi in the dirt at full speed on the front straight for what 50-100 feet
its racing do ya talking on the track
http://www.livevideo.com/video/5E49F42B680...i-suzuka-j.aspx

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Jan 21 2010, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no different to MAX 2001 Suzuka
max sticks his left arm/elbow out and puts rossi in the dirt at full speed on the front straight for what 50-100 feet

Its was a hell of a lot different!!


There was a huge cat fight in the stairwell then

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 21 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the end it was a racing incident and if riders are only allowed to make moves with no possibility of coming unstuck we might as well have the engineers control the bikes remotely from the pits.

You have raced , I haven't but my understanding of the convention in motor racing is that the competitor in front maintaining the right to choose his line does not extend to taking that line off track . I am mainly pointing out that stoner perhaps had some right to be miffed in the heat off the moment given that he was almost t-boned at a high speed whilst on the racing line by a rider who had to some degree missed the corner to the extent that he didn't stay on the track, and the different attitude to such manouevres by rossi as opposed to other riders.
You are right, there are limitations but if they would apply here is uncertain. I strongly doubt Rossi had much of an option. First of all Stoner was behind him for the most part (out of sight) and secondly, throwing down the bike had the potential to hit stoner anyway.

And you are even more right about the being mad. I sure would have been mad as hell for a move like that, but then again, I'm a hot head when it comes to things like that.
But it's not to be underestimated, many has experienced how rage can take over when a stupid cage driver does something stupid that endanger your life. In a situation like that Stoner could rightfully get the same feeling as it is a very scary place for incidents like that.
As usuall I don't mind the riders blowing off some steam after the race as they are very high on adrenaline and often disapointed at the same time. I see no reason to hold it against them later on.
18 moths later it might be time to let it go though
Rossi on the other hand seem to consider the move awsome, probably because he consider comming through the cork screw with the rubber side down after an entry like that is one of his best moves ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As stoner said when he did put his bike into the dirt it was his mistake but the choice was open to him to run into rossi and equally claim a "racing incident"; it would have been fairly low-speed and gained him 5 net points, but I can't imagine he would have attracted much praise for his hardness.
See above, I doubt Rossi had that choise.
But I agree, Stoner would not recive much praise for that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>In this thread someone brought up stoner's jerez off, at a time when the ducati was handling less well than the average horse and dray on the tight tracks; as I recall unless I am confusing it with the estoril race he was widely criticised for re-entering the track with insufficient caution despite being in control of his bike, well away from other riders having slowed down and not as I remember re-entering on the racing line. His off-track utterances/behaviour are arguably more questionable, but the only "....."" element in his on-track display at laguna seca 2008 imo were catlike reflexes in avoding collisions with rossi twice; he did pick the bike back up and manage to still beat the rest of the field fairly comfortably .
I would probably never consider Stoner a ...... What the riders say in interviews are not part of my consideration. They are paid to ride and I rate them at the track. Their spoken word are seldom of much interest unless it can be related to their state of mind and the psycollogy of racing. In that regard Stoners words are sometimes of interest, as it says something about his relation to the bike and the competition.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I agree with you that stoner made a tactical error at the corksrew in not giving rossi room in the first place as kevin schwantz I think said at the time; I have no concept personally as to whether he had time to make this judgement but will accept that he possibly did.
Again it's hard to say if the possibility was there, but I belive it's been done before, at least I've done it sever times in one of several simulator games

I guest you jumkie a fan of Max. I was a fan of Max too, and at the moment I hated Rossi, just because I didn't like his post race celebration. but after Suzuka 2001 he has been no longer in my favorite list. Max is just a big loser like you , never been happy in Rossi era.

Laguna Seca 2008, Rossi was in front at turn 8, so only a blind Rossi hater like you states that he was on the dust at turn 8A when OVERTAKING Stoner.

Just close your eyes when goto MotoGP circuit. Your perception about MotoGP will stay the same, and you will certainly save energy.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 20 2010, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess that's why you're such a great Rossi bopper--both are whiners and cry babies. At what point did you transition from being a fan to being a cult-worshipper so tied up in his persona that you have no ability to reason?

Rossi ...... up that move and Stoner's quick reactions avoided disaster. Every time Rossi has been crowded, that other rider has been vilified. That's why Max Biaggi was run out of the sport, because when he could, he wouldn't back down to Rossi. Just like Lorenzo now, Rossi is actively trying to eliminate such a challenge. Only the fools are so taken by his persona and cannot see beyond the glare of their hero.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 21 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First of all Stoner was behind him for the most part (out of sight) and secondly, throwing down the bike had the potential to hit stoner anyway.

As usuall I don't mind the riders blowing off some steam after the race as they are very high on adrenaline and often disapointed at the same time. I see no reason to hold it against them later on.
18 moths later it might be time to let it go though
Rossi on the other hand seem to consider the move awsome, probably because he consider comming through the cork screw with the rubber side down after an entry like that is one of his best moves ever.
I definitely agree that any other action by rossi may have led to him putting the bike down, possibly taking stoner out anyway.

Stoner is not exactly buttonholing journalists to proclaim his continuing view on the incident, and it was the last question from the journalist concerned having received perhaps uncharacteristically non-controversial replies to his earlier questions. No good rider of whom I am aware is noted for backing down, and stoner is nothing if not stubborn. As tom said I don't think you would find that rossi has changed his attitude to any contretemps he may have had with other riders in the past either.

Rossi had every reason to be exhilarated, both for somehow managing not to put the bike down at the corkscrew and for winning the apparently unwinnable race, which he must have already realised would go a long way towards him regaining the championship, particularly with lorenzo and pedrosa not very likely to threaten the top step of the podium at that time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 18 2010, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting to note CS mentions 'Many unfair moves in those laps' yet can only justify the most famous one with the rulebook........I would like someone to point out VR's other unfair passes in those laps for me, if the rulebook indicates that two riders must stay on track when racing, then CS is guilty of an infringement in that race too when he nearly rear ended VR and put it in the litter properly!

Funny thing is CS had a few very close borderline dangerous passes of his own in that race, 2 which stick out to me are, firstly, up the hill towards the corkscrew around the outside and secondly again around the outside at the end of the start finish straight only to run it in way too hot and be passed again, where these passes also unfair moves or were they 'Just racing?'

This interview, if legitimate, is another nail in CS's PR Coffin lid......despite what you may feel, surely as a professional rider it is nothing but stupid to add fuel to the fire with comments like this.

I agree, and in fact in the exact same duel that lead to the Corkscrew pass by Rossi, Stoner himself kind of forced Rossi to the edge meters before (one turn before)… So he contributed to Rossi not coming in-line to the Corkscrew, was that ‘Unfair’ and should have been punished? Or ‘Just Racing’?

Note: I am taking it easy till Racing Time, greetings everyone!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 21 2010, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree, and in fact in the exact same duel that lead to the Corkscrew pass by Rossi, Stoner himself kind of forced Rossi to the edge meters before (one turn before)… So he contributed to Rossi not coming in-line to the Corkscrew, was that ‘Unfair’ and should have been punished? Or ‘Just Racing’?

Note: I am taking it easy till Racing Time, greetings everyone!
Now I've heard it all compa. Yeah, it was Stoner's fault Rossi blew the entry into Corkscrew.... [sarcasm] Watch the vid again, Rossi cuts Stoner's line because he came in way too hot (see his bike out of shape at breaking point), hence running wide at Corkscrew. But then again, videos always lie.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Jan 21 2010, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>



What I like about this thread: Makes it easy to identify the Rossi bopper from the Rossi fan. One lives in an alternate universe the other lives in reality (nghiemlong lives in neither of the two, he's just plumb dumb.) Seriously, when the conversation starts at this level of lunacy, there is no way two opposing sides can agree. Everything about the above sequence shows that Rossi screwed up (entry & exit), because I can admit it Talpa, Inam, & Babel point out therefore I must not be a fan--so pointing out reality must mean I dislike the man. Yeah, this is the world they live it.

Hope all is well with you my friend.

i like ham

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 22 2010, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i like ham
Pork is bad for you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 22 2010, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Now I've heard it all compa. Yeah, it was Stoner's fault Rossi blew the entry into Corkscrew.... [sarcasm] Watch the vid again, Rossi cuts Stoner's line because he came in way too hot (see his bike out of shape at breaking point), hence running wide at Corkscrew. But then again, videos always lie.

nah stoner rubbed rossi going up the hill and left himself wide on the entry to the corksrew thus leaving the door open for rossi to give stoner a braking lesson into the corkscrew and take the place back knowing if he went off line in the corksrew stoner wouldn't have what it takes to comeback at him




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 22 2010, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What I like about this thread: Makes it easy to identify the Rossi bopper from the Rossi fan. One lives in an alternate universe the other lives in reality (nghiemlong lives in neither of the two, he's just plumb dumb.) Seriously, when the conversation starts at this level of lunacy, there is no way two opposing sides can agree.

Hope all is well with you my friend.


bopping whats that
cool nowt wrong with Rossi he's a decent player but Roma are .... he needs to change teams in 2011
DISCUSS. j/k

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 22 2010, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Now I've heard it all compa. Yeah, it was Stoner's fault Rossi blew the entry into Corkscrew.... [sarcasm] Watch the vid again, Rossi cuts Stoner's line because he came in way too hot (see his bike out of shape at breaking point), hence running wide at Corkscrew. But then again, videos always lie.

What I like about this thread: Makes it easy to identify the Rossi bopper from the Rossi fan. One lives in an alternate universe the other lives in reality (nghiemlong lives in neither of the two, he's just plumb dumb.) Seriously, when the conversation starts at this level of lunacy, there is no way two opposing sides can agree. Everything about the above sequence shows that Rossi screwed up (entry & exit), because I can admit it Talpa, Inam, & Babel point out therefore I must not be a fan--so pointing out reality must mean I dislike the man. Yeah, this is the world they live it.

Hope all is well with you my friend.

Rossi makes a clean overtake on Stoner a couple of turns before:



Stoner tries to hold on the outside:



Stoner leaning a lot on the outside:



Stoner getting closer:



Ops, Stoner lends Rossi an elbow:



Was this fair? Or 'Just Racing'? Anyway, does anyone know if this was in the same race, same lap, and even 500 meters before the Corckscrew Event everyone is talking about?

Jumkie mi hermano, realmente te extraño cuando me desconecto en vacaciones invernales de MotoGP!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 22 2010, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ops, Stoner lends Rossi an elbow:



Was this fair? Or 'Just Racing'? Anyway, does anyone know if this was in the same race, same lap, and even 500 meters before the Corckscrew Event everyone is talking about?

Jumkie mi hermano, realmente te extraño cuando me desconecto en vacaciones invernales de MotoGP!
Thanks for this VHMP01 excellent effort mate, i am sure this will shut up few Stoner boppers.