Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Unfortunately MotoGP is NOT a meritocracy. When Redding was leading the Moto2 championship, Yamaha signed Pol Espargaro. When Smith was leading his teammate all year, again Espargaro was signed before Bradley. Cal Crutchlow scarcely won Wsbk races, yet was signed to Tech 3. When he failed miserably on a "factory" bike, he was rewarded by getting out of a two year contract and picked to ride a RCV, when it was considered the top machine. Viñalez and Miller skipped Moto2 all together. Marquez was allowed to go straight to a factory seat when there was a rule that prohibited it, so a rule change materialized at the 11th hour. Even if you go back, Casey Stoner was the 4th choice to a "factory" Ducati, which had the other 3 taken the offer, quite likely Stoner would have gone the Hector Barbara route of uncompetitive machinery and we'd of never known about his "full potential". Ben Spies showed promise at Tech3 then at factory Yamaha, winning a race, nipped at the line for his second potential win, scored podiums. But had so many mechanicals in a year that it practically appeared to be sabotage, then was replaced by Rossi who struggled to make top 5-10 for two years. If you think riders earn their seats on mere results, you're mistaken pal.
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Riders earn their rides through their marketability. They earn them off the value of having their name associated with a company will bring. In that sense, Rossi will have a factory bike until he retires, deserved or not. If Yamaha drops him, Honda or someone will pick him up because of the hordes of fans who want to ride what he rides, do what he does, be just a little more like him. Believe it or not, factories don't care about race results that much, they care about sales, and they hire whichever rider will generate the most sales. How many R1s do you think have been sold to Rossi fans? How many would not have been sold had a less popular rider been on that bike? In the end, it comes down to money.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Wait, didn't you get upset with me for invoking Rossi? And preferred me to speak of other things?
Disagree, factories care about results. They also care about development. They also care about marketing. Race teams care about funding to go racing, so that's where sponsorship comes into play. Some rider basically pay for their seats that way not necessarily talent and results as is erroneously intuitive.
Yamaha racing was fed up with diva Rossi. They were happy to let him go as he did so in a fit of rage. They were in fact not happy to sign him back either. That's on the record. The signing of Rossi was brokered above the pay grade of the racing team. By the chief executive of Dorna and Yamaha marketing. Again, NOT by the race team itself which expressed it was hell to work with VR.
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I think when he walked from Honda in his first fit of childishness that door closed forever.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Furusawa said Yamaha's racing division didn't want Valentino Rossi to return in 2013, but Rossi's massive commercial value to the team won the internal debate.
"I realize it will be good enjoyment for the fans with Valentino and Jorge sharing the same garage again, but it will be a very difficult year for the people who live inside that garage," Furusawa said.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Yeah see that's ....... ridiculous.
I'm only one person, and in a minuscule minority at that, but I'd never buy a Yamaha as long as VR continues to ride there. I'd buy a Honda, Suzuki, or Kawasaki before buying Yamaha at this point.
Joined Jun 2008
1K Posts | 365+
USA
From what I can remember going back all those years. He does not stand a chance to rep anything Honda. He is on the Biaggi black list without the official announcement. When Honda knew he was playing with them to get max money out of yamaha, that pretty much sealed his faith at Honda. Remember there was a crap load of back & fourth over contract issue which led to yamaha paying what they did when he sign back then. If I remember correctly he was trying similar tactics with his tail tucked going back to yamaha. He made a comment that he still had contact with people high up in Honda. I think what he meant say, there are still people high up in Honda that does not give 2 cents about him & his legacy & ......... After all, nobody knows better that Honda about his SNS championship.
Being injured in 2010, then on a Ducati for 2 years and then pushing into his late 30s also obviously contributed to his declining results, but I guess this is part of your point, since his extreme fans didn't ever brook excuses or explanations where other riders are concerned, and Stoner was actually on a Ducati for 4 years, as I frequently point out when this topic comes up, and injured in 2012 as well as having the rules changed against him.
As far as his early competition goes I think Biaggi was a pretty fair rider, as providing strong opposition for Doohan in his early 500 career demonstrated, but was so mind- f...ed by what transpired when he became the victim of the first demonisation campaign against a Rossi rival that he became a less effective opponent. I was not well disposed towards Biaggi because of his contretemps with Doohan and didn't object much at the time to the anti-Biaggi stuff when he became Rossi's rival but am re-evaluating all that now.
I think your point that he is perhaps "only" a Roberts, Lawson or Rainey level rider is a fair one. That is pretty damn good though, and I thought he rode excellently in 2008 and 2009 as well, even if Stoner contemporaneously was getting screwed as a separate issue. He did actually beat Lorenzo on the same bike in 2009 and ran him close this year even at age 36, so it works back the other way and attests to Rossi's quality as a rider given that few would dispute Lorenzo is fairly good
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
And Lorenzo racing with 2 broken ankles, Dani getting bogus pit board info at Germany that caused him to crash in the rain, injuring himself while leading the championship etc etc. Stoner missing races because of illness. All that .... equals out in the end, except for maybe Dani. I just flat out dont believe Rossi is any more special than the other riders such as Lawson, Rainey, Roberts etc etc. He is ONE of the all time greats no doubt, but those numbers mean nothing to me. Your definition of Biaggi is spot on, a pretty fair rider, and that was Rossi's main competition when putting up 3/4ths of the god like numbers, pretty fair riders. Look what Stoner, Lorenzo, Marquez and Pedrosa have had to deal with comparatively speaking. Everyone of them have more wins than Rossi's main competitors combined.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
That top Honda figure would've been bitter considering Rossi did prove it when he left Honda for Yamaha and won his first year on the bike.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
I don't doubt he said it, but I don't see any other riders willingly jumping to a bike that's not as competitive as what they're currently riding. Rossi did it twice. His results at Ducati weren't great, but he took the risk and gave it a go. I think it was a risk worth taking.
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The beauty of it is that no one really cares what you or all the other paranoid irrational Rossi haters in here think. You're just another faceless hater on the internet. The numbers and records may not mean anything to you but they are always used to judge a potential GOAT.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
This forum has members that claim they hate Rossi "boppers", but they're blind to see that they're just as bad at the opposite end of the spectrum as a Rossi "hater". Rossi boppers think Rossi can do no wrong and worship everything he does, while the haters blindly think everything he does is wrong and hate everything about him.
At the beginning of last season this forum was 80% Marquez hate, so I guess there's a need to jump to a different rider to hate to keep entertained.
At the beginning of last season this forum was 80% Marquez hate, so I guess there's a need to jump to a different rider to hate to keep entertained.
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Basically if you're not an Anglo/American rider you are trashed on this forum. The bigger the success the harder they hate the more the excuses. This forum would have you believe every one of the 100+ wins and 9 titles was engineered by Dorna, while any Anglo/American rider was held back in a massive conspiracy to prevent from winning and Casey Stoner was forced out by Dorna and Nicky Hayden is a much better than Valentino Rossi...just preposterous.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Well the non-fiction narrative isn't as entertaining to them so they have come up with a fictional narrative.
