Simo to face Race Direction at Barcelona

chopperman said:

I wouldn't blame marco if he told Dorna/motogp to stick there ..... series up their arses and went to a series where they dont cry about close racing. Seriously motogp is turming into a ....... WI (womans institition) meeting with a load og old ladys whining about each other.

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chopperman said:

I wouldn't blame marco if he told Dorna/motogp to stick there ..... series up their arses and went to a series where they dont cry about close racing. Seriously motogp is turming into a ....... WI (womans institition) meeting with a load og old ladys whining about each other.

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Somebody call the game warden. Rog has already caught his limit.

Tom said:

I think it is totally unreasonable to hold a riders record in a previous class against him when he enters motogp. Obviously he'll carry a certain amount of reputation forward but Marco has had what, one questionable race in his motogp career (sepang), as a rookie and now they are using some of his rough riding from 2 years ago against him.

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I disagree on the basis that it is their previous record that gets them into MotoGP. Why should only the positives follow them and not the negatives? Marco is now a MotoGP rider because of the resume he had as a 250cc rider. A resume that secured him a full factory bike. His resume also contains all the bad things he did as a 250cc rider. A resume that puts him clearly in the gaze of race direction should something go wrong.

I think it may be interesting to know that Honda and Simoncelli are talking, right now, about extending his factory contract for another two years.

Marco is an amazing rider, with a serious pedigree who has arrived in GP as it turns into some kinda beauty Pageant for the "aliens" so called because they have been bred for a life of racing bikes, and have probably never held a comprehensible conversation with another human being.Sadly the Stoner Lorenzo Pedrosa mentality of get the holeshot, and put in loads of fast laps for the win is why so many folks are turning to Moto2 and WSBK. The 500 guys didn't cry like girls when it got a bit tasty, it's a symptom of the new "bred to win from the front" mentality that is turning loads of folk onto the less prima donna classes. If someone had said to me even 5 years ago that I would even be watching WSBK, never mind giving a ...., I 'd have told them where to go, but Motogp has gone backwards. Gimme moto2 and even a helping of the ditch pumps for proper racing





Sad but true



Pete

Tom said:

I think it is totally unreasonable to hold a riders record in a previous class against him when he enters motogp. Obviously he'll carry a certain amount of reputation forward but Marco has had what, one questionable race in his motogp career (sepang), as a rookie and now they are using some of his rough riding from 2 years ago against him.

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Tom, I cannot agree as one must (IMO) take into considerations past actions when determining such a situation as it shows pattern, intent, negligence etc.



Just because he has entered MotoGP and may not to that point have had another 'questionable' incident, that does not absolve that he has had a history of such things and as such, the history needs to be considered along with the frequency of the issues. If (as an example) Simoncelli had gone a number of years with no discernible fault in an incident then certainly one could say that the latest incident was an 'isolated' incident, but given this is not the case, then to consider it is deserved.



As an example, if a child who killed was released and killed again as an adult, should not that history be admissable in order to show a pattern?



Not suggesting that Simoncelli's situation rivals murder, but the principle remains.







EDIT: I should add (for some of course) that the same applies to all riders with histories and following LeMans someone such as Stoner is in a similar situation as he has been found liable/cuplable for an incident and now that incident needs to be considered for future such incidents













Gaz

J4rn0 said:

I think it may be interesting to know that Honda and Simoncelli are talking, right now, about extending his factory contract for another two years.

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Gresini have said that haven't they? We are yet to see if Honda will come to the party.





Good to see Reg and AssPete back with their whiney incoherent blubberings of denial



What a truckload of crap Pete .......... you've obviously taken you bat and ball ......and changed your home as well

basspete said:

Marco is an amazing rider, with a serious pedigree who has arrived in GP as it turns into some kinda beauty Pageant for the "aliens" so called because they have been bred for a life of racing bikes, and have probably never held a comprehensible conversation with another human being.Sadly the Stoner Lorenzo Pedrosa mentality of get the holeshot, and put in loads of fast laps for the win is why so many folks are turning to Moto2 and WSBK. The 500 guys didn't cry like girls when it got a bit tasty, it's a symptom of the new "bred to win from the front" mentality that is turning loads of folk onto the less prima donna classes. If someone had said to me even 5 years ago that I would even be watching WSBK, never mind giving a ...., I 'd have told them where to go, but Motogp has gone backwards. Gimme moto2 and even a helping of the ditch pumps for proper racing

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You forgot to mention your new development of affection for the BSB and the new front runner John Hopkins.

Mental Anarchist said:

I disagree on the basis that it is their previous record that gets them into MotoGP. Why should only the positives follow them and not the negatives? Marco is now a MotoGP rider because of the resume he had as a 250cc rider. A resume that secured him a full factory bike. His resume also contains all the bad things he did as a 250cc rider. A resume that puts him clearly in the gaze of race direction should something go wrong.

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I take your point that he is in motogp based on his previous performance, and that his reputation (both positive and negative) will follow him. Allow me to clarify, i understand that Marco's past behaviour raises additional concerns about his riding and as such will (rightfully) have an effect on people's opinions when this behaviour continues. But i think it is totally unacceptable that a race penalty is given in a cumulative nature, why should his result at LeMans be spoiled as payment for 3 or so years of dodgy but not individually penalty worthy moves, that is ......... If they wanted to reprimand him, warn him or give him some kind of yellow card against his race licence i would understand and even support the idea. But giving him a ride through just to make a point is unfair, and i feel sorry for him.

Tom said:

I take your point that he is in motogp based on his previous performance, and that his reputation (both positive and negative) will follow him. Allow me to clarify, i understand that Marco's past behaviour raises additional concerns about his riding and as such will (rightfully) have an effect on people's opinions when this behaviour continues. But i think it is totally unacceptable that a race penalty is given in a cumulative nature, why should his result at LeMans be spoiled as payment for 3 or so years of dodgy but not individually penalty worthy moves, that is ......... If they wanted to reprimand him, warn him or give him some kind of yellow card against his race licence i would understand and even support the idea. But giving him a ride through just to make a point is unfair, and i feel sorry for him.

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I don't think the penalty was cumulative. I think it was worthy of the penalty received all on its own. I also believe that unfortunately for Sic his dumb-arse move happened at a time when the officialdom realised that things had gotten out of hand and the riders needed to be reigned in. Butlers comment I think made everyone sit up and have a good long think about the potential negligence of the officials in mediating the on track antics.



What are the legal implications for MotoGP if a rider was injured seriously or even killed due to riders dawdling on the racing line in practice or dangerous overtaking moves when riders had complained multiple times over a sustained period of time and no investigation or actions were taken to mitigate the risks or rectify the behaviour. MotoGP does not operate in a lawless vacuum. Perhaps they had legal advise that suggested they had put themselves in a situation where they could be deemed to be negligent in the event of such an incident if it were to be proven to be more than just 'a racing incident'.

Tom said:

But i think it is totally unacceptable that a race penalty is given in a cumulative nature, why should his result at LeMans be spoiled as payment for 3 or so years of dodgy but not individually penalty worthy moves, that is .........

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He got a warning about his move on Barbera and a fine for his move on Bautista, both at Mugello.



If I were an official, I'd be wondering what it's going to take to get Simoncelli's attention.

J4rn0 said:

I think it may be interesting to know that Honda and Simoncelli are talking, right now, about extending his factory contract for another two years.

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Corporations large and small, in general tend to gloss over considerations of the safety of employees and/or customers when said considerations are inconvenient to their financial goals. If this is true, it is while notable, far from surprising.

Mental Anarchist said:

I don't think the penalty was cumulative.

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I think that is where we differ. I think that on another day with a different rider that move would have been penalised, i think it was a result of the paddock hot topic + Marco's reputation.

Tom said:

I think that is where we differ. I think that on another day with a different rider that move would have been penalised, i think it was a result of the paddock hot topic + Marco's reputation.

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They have met and no further penalty, as if there was going to be any



The Race Direction composed of Paul Butler, Race Director and IRTA representative, Claude Danis, FIM representative, Javier Alonso, Dorna representative, and Franco Uncini, IRTA Riders Safety delegate today met with San Carlo Honda Gresini rider Marco Simoncelli. Also present was San Carlo Honda Gresini Team Principal Fausto Gresini.



The purpose of the meeting was to give all the parties the opportunity to discuss the incident at the French MotoGP in Le Mans that resulted in Marco Simoncelli being penalised with a ride through penalty and to draw a line under it.



The Race Direction informed Simoncelli that they wished to ensure that he was aware of his mistake and to avoid any repetition in the future. Simoncelli responded that in the interval after the French Grand Prix he had had time for reflection and regretted the statements he had made in the heat of the moment immediately after the Grand Prix. He also recognized that he had made an error of judgment and stated that in future he would try to evaluate situations better and be a little more cautious.

Tom said:

I think that is where we differ. I think that on another day with a different rider that move would have been penalised, i think it was a result of the paddock hot topic + Marco's reputation.

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You are right. But I still think that the incident was worthy of the penalty in its own right for any rider.

Mental Anarchist said:

You are right. But I still think that the incident was worthy of the penalty in its own right for any rider.

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I am still unconvinced that it was worthy of a penalty, but i am much more convinced that a penalty would not have been given to other riders in the same situation. I know that is purely speculation and i am happy for us to differ in that opinion, it's just how i feel about it.

Tom said:

I am still unconvinced that it was worthy of a penalty, but i am much more convinced that a penalty would not have been given to other riders in the same situation. I know that is purely speculation and i am happy for us to differ in that opinion, it's just how i feel about it.

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My biggest question is, would it have been a penalty if it was the last race of the year, last lap, and Simo and Pedro were tied in points for the championship. If the answer is no, you cant call a penalty in that situation, then it should not be called in any situation. I do not believe rules are situational.

Mental Anarchist said:

You are right. But I still think that the incident was worthy of the penalty in its own right for any rider.

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I disagree. I think it was no more than an unfortunate racing incident. I think Lorenzos move was more careless but the difference being he didn't take out Dovi, that imo was just pure luck.

chopperman said:

I disagree. I think it was no more than an unfortunate racing incident. I think Lorenzos move was more careless but the difference being he didn't take out Dovi, that imo was just pure luck.

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I agree, no penalty, but only if they were to be consistent. We all know they overreacted due to recent grumblings. Lorenzo on Dovi wasn't even worth mentioning. The move Lorenzo made on Simocelli last year at Valencia was 10x worse than the non-issue move you refer to regarding Dovi.

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