Sepang Test 1 Thread

[RCV600RR]

Anyone see the new rule where no longer tire construction be changed after testing starts . It’s a year to late for Vinales but I have preached time and again tha the tires these ....... bikes are built around should never be changed unless there is a safety issue. Forcada said Vinales season fell apart after tire change . He said Mav could do whatever he wanted with the original tire and lost all confidence after the change. Rossi said 1 week before the first race the bike was fine, but he hated the Michelin front. He was told he was the ONLY rider complaining and to duck it up. Two weeks later Michelin is caught basically trying to sneak the harder carcass into Argentina. Riders rebeled saying it reeked of the Saturday night specials and Michelin was not allowed to run the tires until a test and a vote.

The other riders started whinging about the front too by the time the vote occurred. Almost every rider other than MV and JL voted for the new front.

But I agree with the new rule.

I think Michelin should be allowed to offer a new tyre construction, but not as substitute for the existing tyre. Generally, the more choice the riders/teams have, the better.

 

[#22]

Dovi should be competitive at every round, JL will only be competitive when the weather conditions are perfect.

Perfect like the pissing rain of Misano or Sepang?

 

[RCV600RR]

JL was actually a strong wet weather rider on the Bridgestones. The Michelin wets have generally (other than Sepang) been a struggle for him.

 

[michaelm]

Not this .... again...

I haven’t seen any other reference to a rule change, but have always found Povol credible and have no reason to doubt what he says. Do you have a problem with a rule change because it supports the position Povol took last year in regard to the tyre which suited Vinales being removed and Forcada it would appear also being in agreement?.

 

[synn]

He had a semblance of a point in that post that got lost amongst all the histrionics and hyperbole.

 

[michaelm]

The other riders started whinging about the front too by the time the vote occurred. Almost every rider other than MV and JL voted for the new front.

But I agree with the new rule.

I think Michelin should be allowed to offer a new tyre construction, but not as substitute for the existing tyre. Generally, the more choice the riders/teams have, the better.

That is my view as well. I had no objection to the new tyre being brought in, just to the old one being withdrawn after Vinales had set himself up for the season completely legitimately with that tyre.

Michelin had presumably already incurred the development costs of the original tyre, and the fact they were happy to fly extra tyres to the USA (EDIT Argentina actually which is further) just for Valentino or whomever to test rather gives the lie to the cost of transporting extra tyres being a rate limiting step.

 

[yamfan]

Not this .... again...

We have to listen to your “....” all the time.
Show a little tolerance for other people’s opinions.
Besides Pov is spot on with the way the tyres were introduced.

 

[povol]

Not this .... again...

Will you go back to whatever yellow muck you crawled out of if I can give you quotes and time stamps. I save that .... so when boppers start trying to change history we can keep the narrative on the up and up. Deal

 

[p4p1]

Agreed, but keep in mind that Marquez's bike wasn't working for the 1st half of the season.

If his bike works from the get go this year, and if Marquez keeps his win-it-or-bin-it under control he will be a force.

Can't wait to see it all.

It's easy to forget that Marquez started the season poorly but from round 6 onwards was only off the podium when his engine blew up and in Sepang were he finished 4th. If he continues that form into this year provided his bike is up to it which by all reports it will be he's going to be hard to beat again.

 

[synn]

Will you go back to whatever yellow muck you crawled out of if I can give you quotes and time stamps. I save that .... so when boppers start trying to change history we can keep the narrative on the up and up. Deal

I don’t take orders from the borderline insane, so you can get off whatever high horse that you rode in on and shove your superiority complex where the sun don’t shine.

Making comments like “Michelin “caught” trying to sneak tyres into Argentina” etc is doing nothing to make me take your opinion seriously. Pipe the F down.

99% of the people on this forum wouldn’t know one tyre profile from the other if they hit you in the face. But I am sure your never ending tyre related posts have extensive first hand knowledge backing them up.

Why don’t you park your ..... back on the couch and watch the damn races which is just about the only thing you have any authority at?

 

[BarryMachine]

99% of the people on this forum wouldn’t know one tyre profile from the other if they hit you in the face. But I am sure your never ending tyre related posts have extensive first hand knowledge backing them up.

Just an observation from my couch here .... but what has tyre profile got to do with any of the argument being discussed?

 

[synn]

Because these amazing detectives of the internet seemingly know which tyre profile was better than a 20 year veteran with 9 championships.

Fact: Rossi has seen more tyres come and go than anyone else on the grid.
Fact: Rossi was the first to say there was a problem.
Fact: within a short time, more and more racers started echoing his evaluation until there were only two racers left who thought otherwise.

Fiction: People posting here know tyres better than Rossi
Fiction: Rossi has magical powers to make 20 other racers to agree and vote with him. He might as well use them to make them move aside every time he races, then!
Fiction: Conspiracy theories and histrionics are worth the toilet paper I disposed off this morning


There is no need to satisfy the two racers who were complaining either. It sucks for them, but that’s the point of a control tyre. It is meant to make MOST racers happy. Not ALL. If it was only Rossi complaining, I wouldn’t expect it to be changed either. If they wanted to make all racers happy, they can go back to SNS again, which of course will make Rossi win more again and will result in rivers of blood and tears over here.


The long and short of it is that Rossi called it first. If it was Stoner who did this, people would be singing his praises for kingdom come and proclaiming how he is a visionary who gets these things before the others do.

Give me a break.

 

[michaelm]

I don’t take orders from the borderline insane, so you can get off whatever high horse that you rode in on and shove your superiority complex where the sun don’t shine.

Making comments like “Michelin “caught” trying to sneak tyres into Argentina” etc is doing nothing to make me take your opinion seriously. Pipe the F down.

99% of the people on this forum wouldn’t know one tyre profile from the other if they hit you in the face. But I am sure your never ending tyre related posts have extensive first hand knowledge backing them up.

Why don’t you park your ..... back on the couch and watch the damn races which is just about the only thing you have any authority at?

So you are a Michelin tyre designer come to enlighten us?.

You would be correct that I don’t know much about tyre technology, not that I am incapable of understanding the physics and chemistry involved, but several members have raced, some have run race teams, and there are several engineers who post regularly.

Povol speaks of matters of public record anyway, or have you forgotten they had a vote to replace the tyre which most had voted for pre-season on which Vinales had tested and set up his bike pre-season, and on which he rode to a substantial early season lead?.

 

[Gaz]

Give me a break.

Here, have this instead

 

[michaelm]

Because these amazing detectives of the internet seemingly know which tyre profile was better than a 20 year veteran with 9 championships.

Fact: Rossi has seen more tyres come and go than anyone else on the grid.
Fact: Rossi was the first to say there was a problem.
Fact: within a short time, more and more racers started echoing his evaluation until there were only two racers left who thought otherwise.

Fiction: People posting here know tyres better than Rossi
Fiction: Rossi has magical powers to make 20 other racers to agree and vote with him. He might as well use them to make them move aside every time he races, then!
Fiction: Conspiracy theories and histrionics are worth the toilet paper I disposed off this morning


There is no need to satisfy the two racers who were complaining either. It sucks for them, but that’s the point of a control tyre. It is meant to make MOST racers happy. Not ALL. If it was only Rossi complaining, I wouldn’t expect it to be changed either. If they wanted to make all racers happy, they can go back to SNS again, which of course will make Rossi win more again and will result in rivers of blood and tears over here.


The long and short of it is that Rossi called it first. If it was Stoner who did this, people would be singing his praises for kingdom come and proclaiming how he is a visionary who gets these things before the others do.

Give me a break.

Yes, and he certainly made the right choice for Yamaha, his employers, didn’t he?, given their subsequent results, which were that Vinales fell off a cliff which Forcada who might possibly have a somewhat informed perspective is apparently attributing to the withdrawal of the tyre concerned, with Valentino not prospering anyway either. Are you arguing he magnanimously chose a tyre which would help MM/Honda and Ducati?.

Povol, I and others argued for both tyres to be available going forward in any case. It was manifestly unfair to take away the tyre provided to everyone at the start of the season and chosen by almost everyone pre-season because a rider after the season commenced could use it better than others, which has reportedly now been acknowledged by a rule change. Your point is?.

 

[synn]

So you are a Michelin tyre designer come to enlighten us?.

I think you have a serious comprehension problem, Michael.

I am not arguing which tyre is better because I am definitely underqualified to do that. am arguing that the ........ twisted narrative that some people here sport is ill informed, ill qualified and frankly, pathetic.

The ONLY thing that should matter is this (I will quote myself for you once more):

that’s the point of a control tyre. It is meant to make MOST racers happy. Not ALL. If it was only Rossi complaining, I wouldn’t expect it to be changed either. If they wanted to make all racers happy, they can go back to SNS again.

Your precious personal feelings have no place in this discussion.

have you forgotten they had a vote to replace the tyre which most had voted for pre-season on which Vinales had tested and set up his bike pre-season, and on which he rode to a substantial early season lead?.

Quite the opposite. The result of that vote confirms what I have said above. The tyre that MOST racers are happy with will be the control tyre. NO exceptions.

Povol speaks of matters of public record anyway

Povol speaks out of his ... because there is no public record of Michelin getting "Caught" trying to "Sneak" anything into anywhere.

 

[BarryMachine]

Looks like we got us this years bopper right there in this synn fella!

Whoo hoooo ..... fun year coming up!

 

[synn]

I am not sure who here came up with the term “Bopper”, but of all the ........ things I have seen here, that one probably would take the cake.

 

[Gaz]

Quite the opposite. The result of that vote confirms what I have said above. The tyre that MOST racers are happy with will be the control tyre. NO exceptions.

So a question.

At the start of the season ALL but one rider was happy with the tyre and yet Michelin (likely encouraged by DORNA) went on to develop other options.

Now, again .......... at the start of the season the vast majority of riders accepted the tyre with which Vinales was on fire and yet we subsequently saw that change.

So am I understanding that using your point, that tyre should have remained as the season control tyre or, are you saying that as a season progresses if riders decide that the original tyre is not good enough then they should be listened to and the control tyre changed?

And if so, how are they able to make the decision without a selection of tyre/tyres in the first place?

Ergo, if only one construction is available (ie. the original) how do they know that a subsequent tyre is better?

I am well in the group that says open slather on tyres (have been all along - not a fan of control anything) so my thoughts in this current era are simple and I will use 2017 as the guide - start with original tyres - if enough riders want a different construction (pick an arbitrary percentage) then produce that preference but keep all other chosen tyres and so forth.

Now to the big question - do you honestly think that the discussion about tyres would have arisen if it were not Rossi as the original vocal opponent?

 

[p4p1]

Synn hasn't watched the Argentina press conference. What Michelin had attempted to do was discussed in depth by the riders. He doesn't believe or doesn't know that the few days leading up to the Argentinian GP the story released from Michelin kept changing and the riders openly said that they never asked for a new construction just harder rubber.

He doesn't remember that the reason why the old tyre was chosen after the Valencia test was because most riders found the new tyre almost unrideable. Michelin then had a new and improved tyre ready to go for round 2 even though every rider bar 1 voted for the other tyre.

He also doesn't know that some riders who voted for the new tyre have said in interviews that they only voted for it because they figured it was going to happen anyway so they didn't see the point in not supporting it. Jack Miller one of the riders who voted for the new tyre when asked on Australian television said that he had trouble adapting to the new tyre and it took a few races before he felt comfortable.