Sepang II..........for real this time.

stnd · Mar 1, 2012

mylexicon said:
I think Rossi is winding people up. He and Hayden set their fastest laps early, and they probably spent the remainder of the day working on race simulations, like factory Yamaha. A majority of the other teams/riders appeared to make the traditional late push for a quick lap, including Battiani.

Not saying the Duc will show race winning pace, but I think Rossi is relatively happy with the feel, and Ducati are just screwing around with the settings to get grip and fuel-efficiency sorted over race distance. We will discover the Ducati's weaknesses at the first round in Jerez. If they do well in qualifying, but not the race. The fuel-efficiency is poor. If they do mediocre in both qualifying and the race, they still have chassis problems.

I would say this is not the face of a relatively happy guy. And as much as I (as a fan) would like to lie to my self and say he is playing a trick on everyone I think this is where they are at and can only hope for further improvements.

-----

[font=HelveticaNeue,]"Right now I do not have a skip in my step. We seemed to try harder, sweat more and all we did this afternoon was go slower." - [/font][font=HelveticaNeue,][twitter]Alex__Briggs[/twitter][/font]

[font=HelveticaNeue,]"We are closer 2 the font of the group in time than last test, but basically at the back in position. Very disappointing." - [/font][font=HelveticaNeue,][twitter]Alex__Briggs[/twitter][/font]

hawkdriver · Mar 1, 2012

mylexicon said:
I think Rossi is winding people up. He and Hayden set their fastest laps early, and they probably spent the remainder of the day working on race simulations, like factory Yamaha. A majority of the other teams/riders appeared to make the traditional late push for a quick lap, including Battiani.

Not saying the Duc will show race winning pace, but I think Rossi is relatively happy with the feel, and Ducati are just screwing around with the settings to get grip and fuel-efficiency sorted over race distance. We will discover the Ducati's weaknesses at the first round in Jerez. If they do well in qualifying, but not the race. The fuel-efficiency is poor. If they do mediocre in both qualifying and the race, they still have chassis problems.

He and Duc have both said the bike has about 3-4 tenths left in it and they didn't go for a fast lap because of some problems with the fork. Same problems though, they fix the front and the back goes to ...., they fix the back and the front goes to ..... At least we can now forget about BM's theory of the engine vibration gyro forces being the Ducs problem.

michaelm · Mar 1, 2012

hawkdriver said:
He and Duc have both said the bike has about 3-4 tenths left in it and they didn't go for a fast lap because of some problems with the fork. Same problems though, they fix the front and the back goes to ...., they fix the back and the front goes to ..... At least we can now forget about BM's theory of the engine vibration gyro forces being the Ducs problem.

The random front end lose problem present since the gp10 seems to have been resolved, and it is this which barry postulated was due to the horizontally aligned cylinders. The length of the engine problem which it has been said for years may be what makes the ducati unwieldy may not have been solved by merely rotating it.

I am not sure what is going on with what is coming out of the rossi camp but as lex implies it seems to be co-ordinated.

I agree about the 3 or 4 tenths, but the problem is that stoner may have something similar or greater up his sleeve.

A few things, such as that tyres may not last race distance and increased physical effort being required may favour rossi when it comes to races.

It would appear that while he is superior to others in sorting a good bike to be better he still needs a design to work with.

povol · Mar 1, 2012

Whatever the problem, its what they have to work with. I just read where no new upgrades are due until Catalunya

lil red rocket pilot · Mar 1, 2012

mylexicon said:
I think Rossi is winding people up. He and Hayden set their fastest laps early, and they probably spent the remainder of the day working on race simulations, like factory Yamaha. A majority of the other teams/riders appeared to make the traditional late push for a quick lap, including Battiani.

Not saying the Duc will show race winning pace, but I think Rossi is relatively happy with the feel, and Ducati are just screwing around with the settings to get grip and fuel-efficiency sorted over race distance. We will discover the Ducati's weaknesses at the first round in Jerez. If they do well in qualifying, but not the race. The fuel-efficiency is poor. If they do mediocre in both qualifying and the race, they still have chassis problems.

Well if the first round is in Jerez.

Ducati will have Quatar to practice!!!

Would have highlighted in your quote but aint a scooby doo how to do it!

xx CURVE xx · Mar 1, 2012

Honda playing safe 2day after Pedrosa's engine failure? Look at lap-by-lap analysis and no Honda rider did more than 4 laps in a row -- Matthew Birt.

Hmmm

mylexicon · Mar 1, 2012

lil red rocket pilot said:
Well if the first round is in Jerez.

Ducati will have Quatar to practice!!!

Would have highlighted in your quote but aint a scooby doo how to do it!

Thank you. As you can see, my subconscious still does not recognize the night circus in Qatar as a real GP.

FTE217 · Mar 1, 2012

xx CURVE xx said:
Honda playing safe 2day after Pedrosa's engine failure? Look at lap-by-lap analysis and no Honda rider did more than 4 laps in a row -- Matthew Birt.

Hmmm

Nothing to Hmmm about really - Honda engineers testing the boundarys of the engine, finding how far they can tweek before detonation hence they found it LOL.....

Nuts · Mar 1, 2012

Gaz said:
Results as at 18:00

1 Casey StonerRepsol Honda Team 2:00.473

2 Dani PedrosaRepsol Honda Team 2:00.648 +0.175

3 Andrea DoviziosoMonster Yamaha Tech 3 2:00.802 +0.154 +0.32954

4 Jorge LorenzoYamaha Factory Racing 2:00.877 +0.075 +0.40451

5 Cal CrutchlowMonster Yamaha Tech 3 2:00.986 +0.109 +0.51354

6 Hector BarberaPramac Racing Team 2:01.231 +0.245 +0.75866

7 Alvaro BautistaSan Carlo Honda Gresini 2:01.275 +0.044 +0.80251

8 Ben SpiesYamaha Factory Racing 2:01.432 +0.157 +0.95928

9 Stefan BradlLCR Honda 2:01.492 +0.060 +1.01954

10 Valentino RossiDucati Team 2:01.550 +0.058 +1.07757

11 Nicky HaydenDucati Team 2:01.609 +0.059 +1.13644

12 Franco BattainiCardion AB Motoracing 2:03.490 +1.881 +3.01739

13 Colin EdwardsNGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:03.681 +0.191 +3.20843

14 Yonny Hern?ndezAvintia Racing 2:06.632 +2.951 +6.15948

15 Ivan SilvaAvintia Racing 2:06.785 +0.153 +6.31253

Ok, I accept this is only testing, and the track was not ideal, but for me two interesting points from this test ;

1. Dovi the fastest Yamaha rider, and not far behind the Hondas. Could this be the first year for a long time that a satelite rider is fighting at the front. Lets hope.

2. Pramac faster than Duc factory. Hector Barbera is a good rider, but without disrespect to him, he is not in the same league as Rossi and Hayden. How can a one bike team, without the tech knowledge of the factory (and Rossi's entire ex Yam team), be able to get the Duc running fairly competitively.

Is the Pramac Ducati the same spec as the factory bikes. If so, the factory bikes have the capacity to run at least at that pace, and at P6 and 0.7 off the front, that is an improvement. And if so, why didnt Rossi and Hayden put down similar laps.

If the factory bikes are not the same spec, they should be looking at what Pramac is doing.

michaelm · Mar 1, 2012

Nuts said:
Ok, I accept this is only testing, and the track was not ideal, but for me two interesting points from this test ;

1. Dovi the fastest Yamaha rider, and not far behind the Hondas. Could this be the first year for a long time that a satelite rider is fighting at the front. Lets hope.

2. Pramac faster than Duc factory. Hector Barbera is a good rider, but without disrespect to him, he is not in the same league as Rossi and Hayden. How can a one bike team, without the tech knowledge of the factory (and Rossi's entire ex Yam team), be able to get the Duc running fairly competitively.

Is the Pramac Ducati the same spec as the factory bikes. If so, the factory bikes have the capacity to run at least at that pace, and at P6 and 0.7 off the front, that is an improvement. And if so, why didnt Rossi and Hayden put down similar laps.

If the factory bikes are not the same spec, they should be looking at what Pramac is doing.

Spies and lorenzo both crashed soon after their fast times, and I don't think spies even went out again. So they may not have shown their potential because of this, or because they chose not to anyway.

Otherwise the massive honda bike advantage in 2011 theory has hit a roadblock, although the yamaha may suit dovi's style more than the honda did.

jazkat · Mar 1, 2012

i think honda maybe playing it safe, personally i think stoner has about half sec still in hand...

these bikes run at quali pace in testing, come race time its unbody's guess who is most fuel efficient. i think that when its race time u will also see the CRT's having better times over race distance as they have extra fuel.

im not making excuses for rossi/hayden but most of the bikes are using a transfer from already well developed 800.

i know duc have been using test riders but i believe everything is still up in the air with the new bike while trying to work out a baseline, its not just like they have a place to start from and having extra stuff to test is slowing progress.

il wait for jerez before i make comments on ducs front end.

L8Braker · Mar 1, 2012

povol said:
Whatever the problem, its what they have to work with. I just read where no new upgrades are due until Catalunya

WTF! Catalunya...really? Ducati built an 80% new bike in 3 months and it takes them that long to fab upgrades? As much as I want to believe Rossi and Ducati are playing coy, I do believe they are behind, but they should be behind it's an 80% new bike.

Let 2012 MotoGP racing commence, that way we can start the 2013 silly season.....Hayden to WSBK??? Rossi reitres, Stoner retires and becomes a full time Dad....etc etc.

ethin14 · Mar 1, 2012

This time last year stoner had set the pace, and through the year, ben, lorenzo, and others started to fall off trying to stay with him

Casey did a 1 59 ,607. they go down to this level they'll start dropping like flies, you would have to think if Dovi is consistent again this year he will end up on the podium just picking up the scraps.

Maybe the odd duc and a few satellites as well

mylexicon · Mar 1, 2012

L8Braker said:
WTF! Catalunya...really? Ducati built an 80% new bike in 3 months and it takes them that long to fab upgrades? As much as I want to believe Rossi and Ducati are playing coy, I do believe they are behind, but they should be behind it's an 80% new bike.

Let 2012 MotoGP racing commence, that way we can start the 2013 silly season.....Hayden to WSBK??? Rossi reitres, Stoner retires and becomes a full time Dad....etc etc.

I think we might have to open our minds to the possibility that the manufacturers are only allowed to make a certain number of variants per season, like F1 or other motorsports.

I don't know if homologation or a gentleman's agreement is definitely the case, but it isn't a common practice in all forms of motorsport, including prototype racing.

BarryMachine · Mar 1, 2012

michaelm said:
Narrower V needed perhaps.

As has been said honda and yamaha couldn't build a bike from scratch in a couple of months, they have been designing/building their bikes with a chassis technology familiar to them since the 1000 formula was announced, and testing them with the test riders probably for over a year. Even so, a few kg weight change seems to have caused problems for both, with yamaha saying they can't re-design the bike till next year and will just have to add weights to this year's bike. Makes you wonder how the CRT bikes have any chance with far more limited resources, unless they are precursors to future factory aprilias or whatever. Perhaps ducati should have hired the designer of the yamaha as well as the guy who sorted and rode it so well.

I am not sure he should be despondent (if he is) as ducati did seem closer to yamaha in general before the fast times at the end which he does not seem to have tried for , and conditions did not seem as favourable as at the first test even when it was not raining. I guess one problem may be that it doesn't look like stoner tried for a fast time at the end either.

The tipping the engine back is only a start. Andyou are right I believe, narrowing the V would improve it more.

Indeed if I am right Yamaha have a distinct advantage with those inline cylinders, if they are placed/acting near the front to back centre of grip balance of the bike.

But ................ and dare I say it .......... I don't see Rossi as up to the task.

If we look at the time sheets Rossi is indeed pretty much in front of all of his old competitors.

Take away a now practiced Stoner, Lorenzo, Spies and Pedrosa .......... and maybe Dovi and Baut. and Rossi is right were he should be in relation to those past competitors.

I'll be honest and say that I don't for one minute believe the Honda is the "best" bike, I now believe the Yamaha to be that. especially in 1000cc config. That less VSG in the Yamaha, is a real bonus and indeed was pretty much the reason why Rossi was better on the Yam. The bike was near perfect in grip balance.

Look at Spies v Stoner last year at Valencia, the moment the grip got "iffy", Stoner began to loose his advantage.

Anyway, perhaps Ducati need to go shopping for the next Casey.

BarryMachine · Mar 1, 2012

hawkdriver said:
He and Duc have both said the bike has about 3-4 tenths left in it and they didn't go for a fast lap because of some problems with the fork. Same problems though, they fix the front and the back goes to ...., they fix the back and the front goes to ..... At least we can now forget about BM's theory of the engine vibration gyro forces being the Ducs problem.

How so? ......... its all certainly looking like it was the problem! Did Rossi or Hayden have any unpredictable front end losses? ............ rightfully so they now need to tune the new bike.

You simply have no idea fella .........

I am beginning to think you guys expected Rossi to be instantly at front!!

You are falling for your own propoganda there ........

I have stated it before, Rossi rides in a very smooth safe way, he always has. The new guys he is up against go past that.

The biggest problem with the Duc. is that they don't have a rider that is better than the bike any more.

In any case, whether Rossi or Hayden get any "....... vibrations" will only be evident a few rounds into the series.

Yes it does not bode well for Rossi, but thems the breaks.

Talpa · Mar 1, 2012

BarryMachine said:
Anyway, perhaps Ducati need to go shopping for the next Casey.

And then they'll spend the season fixing crashed machines and coming 5th or 6th anyway..........

Ducati are doing a tremendous job, as is Rossi in ensuring he receives the best balance of machine to consistently win. This is the top class in the world, with extremely seasoned manufacturers, anything but the best in machinery is off the podium for the title chase come seasons end.

BarryMachine · Mar 2, 2012

Talpa said:
And then they'll spend the season fixing crashed machines and coming 5th or 6th anyway..........

Ducati are doing a tremendous job, as is Rossi in ensuring he receives the best balance of machine to consistently win. This is the top class in the world, with extremely seasoned manufacturers, anything but the best in machinery is off the podium for the title chase come seasons end.

You do know Rossi finished 10th?

birdman · Mar 2, 2012

BarryMachine said:
How so? ......... its all certainly looking like it was the problem! Did Rossi or Hayden have any unpredictable front end losses? ............ rightfully so they now need to tune the new bike.

Here's your confirmation Barry.

Rossi:

“I think we have improved from last year because we had two or three moments today where for sure with last year's bike I would have crashed!” he smiled. “But it is not enough. The character of the bike from this point of view remains very similar.”

spooky · Mar 2, 2012

I dont think Ducati's problems are anywhere near as bad as they were this time last year, the front end issues are now gone (well the front end dropping with no warning certainly is), i think once they get his position on the bike sorted it's just a case of geometry tweaks to get the bike to work at a decent level. I dont think he'll be challenging for wins the first half of the season but he'll be consistently in the top 5. Even last year he made the heap look slightly better than it really was, though nowhere the level Casey made it look...clearly. Jerez will be the most important test.

On the subject of tests, can they not test outwith the 'official' tests?

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Sepang II..........for real this time.

stnd

hawkdriver

michaelm

povol

lil red rocket pilot

xx CURVE xx

mylexicon

FTE217

Nuts

michaelm

jazkat

L8Braker

ethin14

mylexicon

BarryMachine

BarryMachine

Talpa

BarryMachine

birdman

spooky

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