Sell Audi and buy Delonghi instead
As you suggest, Ducati and Delonghi would go well together
Sell Audi and buy Delonghi instead
As you suggest, Ducati and Delonghi would go well together
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
My comment in the other thread fits well here so sorry but I'm gonna repeat.
I don't see Lorenzo as the problem since Ducati have not solved their problems. Dovi had been complaining about mid corner speed for ages but Ducati didn't come with a solution for this.
This implies the engine layout is the problem, maybe V90 avoids the wheel base to be shorter and this can cause the bike to be more stable but less agile in corners and change of direction.
But it seems Ducati can't afford a change in engine layout anytime soon, that would be the second engine major redesign in 3 years. Also, they have zero experience in V engines less than 90 degrees.
A good chance would be another tire manufacturer (tire competition) joining MGP but anyone can see it coming? Forget about it... maybe another Stoner? It could be but would Philip Morris wait another 10 years time span? Improbable.
They have no way to go and that's the reason for Dovi's last comments about Ducati: "we don't know what to do". Yeah we know you don't know, that's pretty clear.
With the recent rumors of a sale by Audi, Ducati's future in MotoGP series is not looking any good. I think it's not time to Lorenzo leave but for the entire company to leave MotoGP.
Dorna acts like a ..... changing rules over and over only to find that no one can challenge Honda and Yamaha duopoly. If one is smart enough would see KTM, Suzuki and Aprillia are losing their time in MGP. They should all pack their bags and go home together with Ducati.
MGP is a two player only game. Better fill the grid with a bunch of Hondas and Yamahas and let the riders do the trick.
spec tires, spec ECU and now spec bike.
I don't see Lorenzo as the problem since Ducati have not solved their problems. Dovi had been complaining about mid corner speed for ages but Ducati didn't come with a solution for this.
This implies the engine layout is the problem, maybe V90 avoids the wheel base to be shorter and this can cause the bike to be more stable but less agile in corners and change of direction.
But it seems Ducati can't afford a change in engine layout anytime soon, that would be the second engine major redesign in 3 years. Also, they have zero experience in V engines less than 90 degrees.
A good chance would be another tire manufacturer (tire competition) joining MGP but anyone can see it coming? Forget about it... maybe another Stoner? It could be but would Philip Morris wait another 10 years time span? Improbable.
They have no way to go and that's the reason for Dovi's last comments about Ducati: "we don't know what to do". Yeah we know you don't know, that's pretty clear.
With the recent rumors of a sale by Audi, Ducati's future in MotoGP series is not looking any good. I think it's not time to Lorenzo leave but for the entire company to leave MotoGP.
Dorna acts like a ..... changing rules over and over only to find that no one can challenge Honda and Yamaha duopoly. If one is smart enough would see KTM, Suzuki and Aprillia are losing their time in MGP. They should all pack their bags and go home together with Ducati.
MGP is a two player only game. Better fill the grid with a bunch of Hondas and Yamahas and let the riders do the trick.
spec tires, spec ECU and now spec bike.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Ducati is profitable. In 2016 they sold 55.451 bikes worldwide, with a 731 million euros turnover and a net result of 51 millions. So if VW are thinking (and indeed they are) about selling Ducati the main reason is to cash in, to help compensating the dieselgate losses.
Ducati was bought by Audi/Lamborghini in 2012, on behalf of the VW group, for 860 millions; now they have asked the investment bank Evercore to evaluate sale options for almost twice that price. The current value of Ducati should be in the region of 1,5 billions euros, two times its turnover.
Already one year ago there were rumors about the VW group thinking to sell Ducati. Of course we hope that it is bought by some relevant industrial group. Chinese and Indian groups would be likely candidates.
The atmosphere inside Ducati seems to be quiet. There are no signs yet in the management of the big maneuvers that precede big changes. Of course at the top levels there is a marked dissatisfaction about the results of Ducati Corse, falling below expectations in MotoGP and not really satisfactory even in SBK. Dall'Igna should be worried. But for the rest it is business as usual.
Ducati was bought by Audi/Lamborghini in 2012, on behalf of the VW group, for 860 millions; now they have asked the investment bank Evercore to evaluate sale options for almost twice that price. The current value of Ducati should be in the region of 1,5 billions euros, two times its turnover.
Already one year ago there were rumors about the VW group thinking to sell Ducati. Of course we hope that it is bought by some relevant industrial group. Chinese and Indian groups would be likely candidates.
The atmosphere inside Ducati seems to be quiet. There are no signs yet in the management of the big maneuvers that precede big changes. Of course at the top levels there is a marked dissatisfaction about the results of Ducati Corse, falling below expectations in MotoGP and not really satisfactory even in SBK. Dall'Igna should be worried. But for the rest it is business as usual.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
He's the guy who's generally credited with improving the GP bike to it's current version, although it seems to be at a standstill in development terms. If Gigi goes would his replacement be any better?
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
His main development improvement seems to have been in the area of aerodynamics, and now that is back to square one for Ducati.... Its time for a larger rethink of the whole project....as per Dovi in link....
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/dovizioso-ducati-needs-to-think-of-long-term-answers-897549/
That of course assumes that there will be a long term investment by Ducati in the MotoGp project...
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I hope Dovi doesn't start shelling money out of his pocket to try and get improvements that help him...
That aside, the winglet ban is going to have to force Ducati/Dall'Igna to finally address their chassis situation if they are to have any hope of replicating 2016's results less the crashes. Unless of course that yet to be homologated fairing turns out to be something that works.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
The real problem is that Gigi is the one who wanted Jorge... Accordingly the GP17 has been developed with Lorenzo in mind, and so far it looks like a failure -- Lorenzo can't ride it yet, and Dovi would rather have the GP16 (or even the GP15) back.
Gigi-Jorge will have to show some really dramatic improvements before the season ends if they want to stay, with or without a change of ownership... Simul stabunt vel simul cadent, as the Romans said.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Let me ask, wouldn't it have been kind of difficult to design the GP17 with Lorenzo in mind as they couldn't get any true feedback till the Valencia test? I'm still leaning towards the GP18 being the true test for Lorenzo since they'll have had enough time to work with him and to get all the requisite data. But now there's at least the question of whether Lorenzo will actually survive more than one year.
Any chance at least Dovi gets either the GP16 or 15 back? Or are they giving the GP17 a little bit more time before any decision like that is made?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Dall'Igna knows Lorenzo very well since the 250 days, so he had (or he thought he had) a good idea on how the bike should be adapted to suit his style. Jorge has certainly improved as a rider, but not essentially changed since then. Certainly the GP17 has not been developed according to Dovi's input. I agree the GP18 would have been the final Jorge upgrade, but now one can doubt there will ever be a chance to see that, unless Gigi-Jorge can demonstrate something in 2017. I think it's still possible, by the way.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
COTA was a good showing for Lorenzo, but I have my doubts about Jerez and how the GP17 is going to get around that circuit.
Interesting though that even knowing Lorenzo well wasn't able to get the GP17 bike design where it needed to be for him to have early success. I still think it is possible for them to do something this year, but I think they are going to need to make big strides over the next 3-4 races for that to have a chance at becoming a reality.
Joined Nov 2015
872 Posts | 420+
Stratosphere
I assume Gigi to be an astute observer of this sport, so I find it a bit hard to understand how he could have thought Lorenzo was the man for the job. Of course all us armchair observers are just that, yet pretty much everyone here predicted Lorenzo's style would never work with the Ducati. I very much admire Lorenzo as a rider, but this seems to be the mis-match of the century. Lipstick on a pig, as it were.
J4, as you suggest Gigi has a background with Lorenzo and no doubt knows him well although also as you suggest it would seem that Lorenzo's style perhaps does not readily translate as well to the Ducati soI ask.
Is the issue moreso that the Yamaha has a style that may not be as readily translatable?
I ask as in reality we have seen a few Yamaha mounted riders come and go (or stay in Dovi's case) and yet we see little improvement or results.
That said, and as I have said elsewhere, I have money on Jl for race wins so he can't go anywhere yet
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Rider quotes suggest Ducati, despite all the changes, still retains its original DNA understeer. Any idea why that is? Is it the DNA of a Desmo engine? Frame geometry still off? Is the engine really in the classic V position in the frame, or midway between V and L? And lucky last do you have an idea what's in the black box on the tail section? If Ducati unofficially say it's electronics my guess was it definitely isn't electronics.
Lorenzo has been quoted having to use the rear brake a lot, something which is completely foreign to him. I have doubts there is much Gigi can do, in terms of turning the ugly duck into a sweet handling tuning fork swan.
Still considering this is Lorenzo jumping in the deepest of deep ends, in terms of style mismatch, I actually think he is doing ok. Every time he has been really far behind in either testing or race weekends he has dug deep and at least got himself back up into a respectable position. He isn't giving up, obviously the problem will be the Marlborough mans patience.
There is no secret in Ducati's problem, even they know what is going on.
I don't know why bunch of you guys make this so hard to understand.
Dalligna though Lorenzo would fit Ducati BECAUSE Iannone supposed has a similar style, and Iannone was very competitive on the bike. So a lot of people played on this.
The problem of Ducati has nothing to do with chassis (at least directly). If this was the case, Ducati had already fixed, because it would be "easy". It has to do with engine layout eating the room needed for a shorter bike. That is it, simple as that, no need to conspiracy theory about chassis, salad box, geometry, weight distribution, etc.. they KNOW all of that, but there is nothing to do until they have a more compact engine. Now, could you imagine Ducati having a compact engine? For them, this is a big hurdle to overcome.
Watch this .... to help understand where is the "problem".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8eEqoY0GT4
I don't know what will happen to Ducati in the near future but one thing is for sure, they won't challenge for the title anytime soon.
I don't know why bunch of you guys make this so hard to understand.
Dalligna though Lorenzo would fit Ducati BECAUSE Iannone supposed has a similar style, and Iannone was very competitive on the bike. So a lot of people played on this.
The problem of Ducati has nothing to do with chassis (at least directly). If this was the case, Ducati had already fixed, because it would be "easy". It has to do with engine layout eating the room needed for a shorter bike. That is it, simple as that, no need to conspiracy theory about chassis, salad box, geometry, weight distribution, etc.. they KNOW all of that, but there is nothing to do until they have a more compact engine. Now, could you imagine Ducati having a compact engine? For them, this is a big hurdle to overcome.
Watch this .... to help understand where is the "problem".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8eEqoY0GT4
I don't know what will happen to Ducati in the near future but one thing is for sure, they won't challenge for the title anytime soon.
