And a little bit of fun
That race was the first time this season the JL has beat VR on track .............. will it be the first of many?
That race was the first time this season the JL has beat VR on track .............. will it be the first of many?
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Agree re Forcada. Still Gabarini is no slouch of a chief either. I'm very interested in the transformation of Lorenzo. Didn't think he had it in him to ride that way. Having a chief that not only knows the Ducati in and out but also has probably the most understanding of exactly what Stoner was doing on the bike can only be a big advantage for Lorenzo. So it looks like a win win all round, for both Vinales and Lorenzo. But not Rossi? Is that the hidden message here?
Its an interesting power play at Yamaha. Apparently both Rossi and Vinales tested the 2016 and 2017 bikes back to back at Valencia. Vinales is clear he thinks the 2017 version is much better and has no interest in wasting time doing more comparisons. Very decisive for the new boy and no 2 rider starting the year.
Rossi is a little vague. Playing the usual media games. He doesn't outright say the 2016 was better. Or if he is, Yamaha already went against him and followed the no 2 riders development lead, which would be unprecedented when the no 1 rider has the pedigree of Rossi. Seriously would Yamaha force Rossi to ride the 2017 chassis if he said he preferred the 2016? I highly doubt it.
Rossi likely doesn't know exactly what he wants. Or he wants them to change everything. He wants the tires changed, now its the bikes fault. Does he remember his old mate Biaggi?
Perhaps being off 2 out of 6 races is just how it goes in the Michelin control tire era.
I totally agree, but Lorenzo's always been go for broke at the drop of the flag. Maybe he will begin tempering that impulse. Over the years he has been pretty good at making adjustments that produce wins.
Btw my comment for how awesome he looked, not how awesome his total race pace was.
I think he will get there.....
Stand corrected ......... ta.
As for the crash side, nope, doesn't count for mine (either way)
The interesting point of the two where Jl finished in front is that it corresponds with the two poor factory Yamaha performances and yet coincidentally, JL got podium or near podium both times. Will be interesting to see how he performs from here on at tracks where the factory Yamaha are up there again.
Joined Jun 2016
642 Posts | 244+
Santa Cruz, Cal
I was referring to Marquez's rejection of last year's chassis, even though other Honda riders preferred it. He won the ship on the older chassis.
In the case of the current Yamaha, it appears that Rossi was trying to get a new Chassis. So, they have new Chassises. Seems like they still pay attention to him. I would, not just for the p.r., but because his "team" does something right, or he wouldn't have the record that he does. Honestly, I don't think Honda or Yamaha have too many problems, it is just the tires are unpredictable and Ducati is getting better.
Joined Jun 2016
642 Posts | 244+
Santa Cruz, Cal
I really hope he does NOT temper his starts. It is one of the strongest parts of his race craft. And it is what gives him clear track to get into his groove and do lap after lap within a four inch wide path.
Vinaeles has upset some people with his stance on the 2017 chassis. I don't know why, he feels it's superior for his style, Rossi feels the 2016 chassis is better for his. I don't know why people who aren't even Rossi fanboys believe Vinaeles should give Rossi what he wants.
Joined Jun 2016
642 Posts | 244+
Santa Cruz, Cal
Why must they ride the same chassis? The Honda guys don't do that. Are we sure they must ride the same frame, or is that just an assumption?
Are Dovi and JLo using the same frame? Obviously, there is already a plethora of Ducati variations to choose from in the MotoGP field.
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
It's Yamaha that need to listen to Rossi as he has a pretty good idea how the m1 should handle, like I said previously his struggles in testing were ignored because Vinale's was topping the tests. Now the setup issue has surfaced they are taking notice and rightly so as both riders are affected.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
There are numerous reports to the effect that the Ducatis are in fact suffering due to the loss of the wings. You have to ask yourself, why (with all those Ducatis in the field), is it, that only one Ducati rider is regularly on the podium, or for that matter in the top 5? Dovi himself said in the presser that his advantage at the last race was the extra speed down the straight allowing him to do less braking, which saved the tire for the last 3rd of the race. Watch, as the Hondas and Yamahas do better at tracks where handling is more important than sheer horsepower.
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Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I've been increasingly of the opinion Rossi is interested in putting Vinales in his place, and the chassis situation is his best opportunity to do that. I still don't think Vinales understands what exactly he is dealing with here, and I'm of the opinion that a major division is going to be coming soon in that garage.
In fairness to Rossi, I don't agree with you that he doesn't know what he wants. You don't last this long in grand prix motorcycle racing by not knowing what you want from a machine, even if you are receiving the tacit backing of Dorna. Without unlimited in-season testing, you have to make decisions that you believe will pay off, and given the current situation, there's several variables at play that preclude an easy fix. Yamaha has gotten the chassis/tire match wrong previously in 2006 when Michelin switched to a wider tire that introduced a lot of chatter to the 990cc M1. They did solve the issue after taking the 2005 test chassis' and modifying them for the 2006 engine, but that wasn't till later in the season. Had they figured out sooner that was the best solution, the latter part of that season unfolds slightly differently in my opinion.
I do think what this episode is telling us that is not being talked about, is that Vinales' adaptability may not be as good as previously thought. Riding a motorcycle at that level in low grip conditions is difficult on a good day, but insufferable on a really bad day. Vinales being as lost as he was with finding a setup that would give him the grip, or something close to the levels he feels comfortable is going to be a huge mountain to overcome. Especially since in spite of how bad the factory bikes were at Catalunya, Rossi was able to put something together to see the checkered flag and score more points than his teammate. It should also have the purpose of informing fans that Lorenzo's struggles last season with Yamaha should not be viewed in a vacuum. The armchair experts said he was mental when he was having similar issues with finding grip on the M1 thanks to the Michelin tires. Yet these same experts when faced with a different rider who is struggling with an inconsistency that can only be chalked up to the tires have predictably nothing to say about mental states and the like.
You bring up adaptability JPS and I think you're spot on tha adaptibility may be Vinales' downfall. While Vinales in perfect conditions on the m1 is very difficult to beat I as a Marquez fan have been confident that Marquez can make up big chunks of points in the mixed conditions, strange conditions(ie Jerez & Catalunya) and wet races to at the very least run Vinales close this season. Assuming that Honda don't make a giant step forward in what one would call normal conditions it's those races that could possibly see Marquez close the gap and pressure Vinales.
If things keep going the way they are with Vinales seemingly making an enemy out of and disrespecting Rossi(as his fans will view it not me) I believe we will see Marquez past (alleged)collusion be almost forgotten as the Valeban cheers on Marquez to beat the usurper Vinales for the title. While I'm getting ahead of myself I'm sure this could be the golden ticket for DORNA, their former air apparent back in the good fraces of the yellow army which could possibly keep the glory hunting element watching the sport. Michelin as a company who we know don't like to be critisized I'm sure would favour Marquez's feedback because he never openly critisized Michelin like Maverick and everyone gets richer. Sadly(for him) and I hope I'm wrong Vinales' mouth(Which I'm growing to like more and more) could stop him receiving advantages/parity that some in his position may gain.
If things keep going the way they are with Vinales seemingly making an enemy out of and disrespecting Rossi(as his fans will view it not me) I believe we will see Marquez past (alleged)collusion be almost forgotten as the Valeban cheers on Marquez to beat the usurper Vinales for the title. While I'm getting ahead of myself I'm sure this could be the golden ticket for DORNA, their former air apparent back in the good fraces of the yellow army which could possibly keep the glory hunting element watching the sport. Michelin as a company who we know don't like to be critisized I'm sure would favour Marquez's feedback because he never openly critisized Michelin like Maverick and everyone gets richer. Sadly(for him) and I hope I'm wrong Vinales' mouth(Which I'm growing to like more and more) could stop him receiving advantages/parity that some in his position may gain.
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But their championship contender disagrees with Rossi. The man tipped to win the championship isn't as fast on and doesn't favour the same thing as Rossi so there is little reason for Yamaha to value Rossi's opinion over Vinales' when they clearly want different things in the bike.
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
At this moment they are both championship contenders , there's only 28 points covering the top 5 which is great for people who don't want a runaway champ.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
The Marquez future is over for Dorna. That bridge was burned in 2015 and is not ever going to be walked back by the VR fanbase IMO. Nothing I've seen on the comments section of news sites gives me any reason to think the true believers will ever forget the narrative that they've chosen to adopt regarding that scenario. Even VR's kind-of mea culpa was ignored.
But as far as the current championship goes, MM may be able to close up that points gap at the front, but it's going to take even greater effort/focus/luck on both his part and HRC's. I thought last year's title he won was remarkable for how difficult the RCV was, but winning this year in spite of the big bang engine change might be even more significant if he is able to pull it off because of how .... that chassis is.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
AS I see it yamahahahaa need the old frames but I blame Jarvis, I think his heads buried in the sand, after all "the buck stops here", he's looking miserable and he needs to get the job done. BTW how old is he, I had him down as a 50 year old but that acne is terrible and makes him look ancient.
Much as I am not a yellow fan, you are talking bollocks.
The only thing the french do well is wine.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
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